The 2020 Presidential Election

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momopi said:
On the other hand, we may create a degenerate society where the top 0.1% rule with support from bottom 90% welfare recipients mooching off the productive 10%.  Not that the other way is always better, when the elite 10% ruled in a "civilized society" advocating meritocracy, they say "by the sweat of your brow will you eat" when they really mean "if you're not clever/cunning/shrewd enough to double the silver in your hand, you deserve to have the coins taken from you and cast into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

There is no equivalence to the alternatives you posed.

In a liberal/socialist/collectivist society, if you are in the 90%, there is no chance you will ever become part of the 0.1% elite. The very best you can hope for is for the 0.1% elite to promote you to the 10%. But why would you want that if all that means is that you now have to support the 90%?

In a conservative/capitalist/individualistic society, if you are in the 90%, you have a shot at getting into the 10%. The odds may not be good, but at least you have a shot. As a famous writer once said, the reason socialism never took hold in the USA is because every poor person in America thinks he?s a millionaire who has temporarily fallen on hard times.
 
Or we just understand compound interest?

If I put $10,000 a year in my 401k for 30 years with an average rate of return of 8% I would have $1,223,458.68 when I retire.

Obviously that's a fairly optimistic scenario. But also not impossible.

Kings said:
morekaos said:
No doubt...

More than half of millennials think they?ll be millionaires?here?s what the data suggests

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/03/half-of-millennials-think-theyll-be-rich-data-says-otherwise.html

millennials just need to wait for their boomer parents to die, then they'll all be millionaires  ;)
 
GDP came in at 2.1%...in line with estimates...same ones that says GDP will sub 2% in second half of 2019. 

Love how CNBC is selling this..

1)  GDP BEAT EXPECTATIONS!  Yeah by 0.1%  and this is only a preliminary number...adjustments have been downwards recently.

2)  CONSUMER SPENDING!  Buries lede of domestic invement down 5.5%...Customer spending is a lagging indicator.  Also, I thought the tax cuts were supposed to create a whole new level of business investment never seen before!
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/26/us-gdp-second-quarter-2019.html

These quote sums up Wall Street craziness right now...it is like a junkie claiming that everything is great!

However, the underlying numbers in the report seemed to take steam out of the recession fears that have been much of the talk among economists and policymakers at the Federal Reserve.

?The recession talk was always overstated,? said Michael Arone, chief investment strategist at State Street Global Advisors. ?Those that were doing the Chicken Little, the sky is falling, we?re headed for recession talk were clearly early in that assessment. The economic data continue to suggest that the economy isn?t near recession, at least in the next year or so.?

The GDP report comes amid growing concern that the weakening growth hitting much of the world?s economy is spilling over into the U.S. While consumer activity has been strong, manufacturing growth has slumped recently and housing remains a weak spot.

?The data clearly shows signs of a bifurcated economy. Weakness in manufacturing has weighed on components like inventories and fixed investment, but the healthy U.S. consumer has helped buoy the economy as seen in the stable reading on personal consumption expenditures,? Michael Reynolds, investment strategy officer at Glenmede, said in a note. ?Altogether, robust domestic consumers are more than offsetting the headwinds of a weakening manufacturing economy.?
 
But thankfully...we are going to win that trade war against China!

Wait sorry...we are winning that trade war...I mean WE WON THE TRADE WAR AGAINST CHINA!

Larry Kudlow, director of the National Economic Council, dampened expectations about any major breakthroughs coming from U.S.-China trade negotiations next week.

?I wouldn?t expect any grand deal,? Kudlow told CNBC?s ?Squawk on the Street ? on Friday. ?Talking to our negotiators, I think they?re going to reset the stage and hopefully go back to where the talks left off last May.?
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/26/kud...de-barriers-down-is-absolutely-essential.html
 
One does not need to be a millionaire or be in the top 10% wealth category to succeed in getting out of the rat race.  But we are constantly bombarded with messages of consumerism (social and economic order that encourages the acquisition of goods and services in ever-increasing amounts) where the bottom 90% is encouraged to buy goods and services to enjoy upscale lifestyle and trappings with debt.

In theory, if you purchased quality products with timeless design and function, you can take good care of it and last for years, decades, or even generations.  However today people are hooked on products with short term planned obsolescence like liquefied sugary snacks on IV drip.  To replace these products people are encouraged to spend, spend, and spend to enrich the banksters (predatory, profiteering, and dishonest banking industry) and credit monopoly with usurious interest (*).

Instead of always seeing growing consumer debt as signs of growing economy, if we reduced our debts (other than those that help to build equity) we won't have to fantasize about winning to lotto to retire.


(*)  For example, see Marquette National Bank of Minneapolis v. First of Omaha Service Corp., 439 U.S. 299 (1978).
 
irvinehomeowner said:
The core of UBI is no strings attached... it's a right, no conditions, no qualifications. It's Oprah style... right kenkoko?
don?t quite understand the argument against the universality of Yang?s Freedom Dividend other than maybe it goes against the doctrine in your specific ideology. If you look at our current welfare program, very few people love them. Means testing is expensive and does not work. The massive bureaucracy actually fails to provide aid to people actually in need.

Universality also de-politicized it. Do you really enjoy how polarized we have become? Do we really want socialism/ federal job guarantees/ free college for everyone? I constantly see conservatives complaining about how far left the democrats have gone. But refuse to consider better solutions. If we keep doubling down on this trickledown economic that?s just going to accelerate income inequality and further ?radicalize? the left and push more younger people to socialism. Yang?s UBI has bipartisan support and is a better alternative to what the rest of the democratic field is offering.
 
momopi said:
I like Andrew Yang but I think the UBI proposal needs to start from a smaller and more limited base, with strings/conditions attached.  For example, with big data we can statistically identify those who are most at risk of committing crimes and put them on government dole in exchange for staying out of trouble, attending classes/counseling, and relocation out of high risk areas.

For those who like the idea of moving "semi off-grid", $12,000/year would allow you to save for a tiny home and plot of land somewhere.  It will allow people to indulge in the fantasy of being self sufficient in a rural area somewhere while collecting $1,000/month from Uncle Sam and getting drone deliveries from Amazon or Walmart.  They can um, tend to their 1 acre gardens while ordering groceries from Walmart delivery.  Not a perfect solution to mass unemployment from automation/AI, but better than having the robots liquidate us.

On the other hand, we may create a degenerate society where the top 0.1% rule with support from bottom 90% welfare recipients mooching off the productive 10%.  Not that the other way is always better, when the elite 10% ruled in a "civilized society" advocating meritocracy, they say "by the sweat of your brow will you eat" when they really mean "if you're not clever/cunning/shrewd enough to double the silver in your hand, you deserve to have the coins taken from you and cast into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."


I agree that we should absolutely use advancement in big data technology to improve but we are far from that. One thing I do agree with IHO on is skepticism when it comes to our government competency. Look at how bad we are at administration of welfare.
Numbers of families in poverty receiving cash welfare in 2016:
Texas 4 out of 100
Arizona 6 out of 100
Arkansas 5 out of 100
Wyoming 5 out of 100

If anyone wants to live off 12k UBI a year, I frankly don?t see a problem. Probably leads to less carbon footprint and better for the environment. We should encourage that.

Jobs have long been seen as the primary driver of economic growth because they represent both the supply & demand side. We need to shift to seeing automation as the primary driver of growth on the supply side and UBI on the demand side, with a goal of always doing more with less.



 
Kenkoko said:
irvinehomeowner said:
The core of UBI is no strings attached... it's a right, no conditions, no qualifications. It's Oprah style... right kenkoko?
don?t quite understand the argument against the universality of Yang?s Freedom Dividend other than maybe it goes against the doctrine in your specific ideology. If you look at our current welfare program, very few people love them. Means testing is expensive and does not work. The massive bureaucracy actually fails to provide aid to people actually in need.

Universality also de-politicized it. Do you really enjoy how polarized we have become? Do we really want socialism/ federal job guarantees/ free college for everyone? I constantly see conservatives complaining about how far left the democrats have gone. But refuse to consider better solutions. If we keep doubling down on this trickledown economic that?s just going to accelerate income inequality and further ?radicalize? the left and push more younger people to socialism. Yang?s UBI has bipartisan support and is a better alternative to what the rest of the democratic field is offering.

Oh don't get me wrong, I agree with not having requirements for the reasons you list... especially the bureaucracy of proving qualification.

Remember, I'm all for the Star Trek utopia where no one worries about earnings/profit/etc, replicators give you whatever you want and your purpose in life is basically production/engineering, exploration/science and protection (medical/military/etc)... unless you are a Ferengi. :)
 
I have now shifted my allegiance from Swalwell to Williamson!!

Marianne Williamson 'YODELS' as she gets passionate during Democratic debate - then says she will confront 'dark psychic force' and dismisses other Democrats as 'yada yada yada'

https://mol.im/a/7303863
 
morekaos said:
I have now shifted my allegiance from Swalwell to Williamson!!

Marianne Williamson 'YODELS' as she gets passionate during Democratic debate - then says she will confront 'dark psychic force' and dismisses other Democrats as 'yada yada yada'

https://mol.im/a/7303863

But your still stuck in LB politics.
 
Going to be a long 16 months.  Around 8:30ish caught a 30 second scare commercial on Medicare forn All going to take all your choices away and make 40% of the drugs go away while the Government Bureaucracy lets cancer kill you spot already.
 
eyephone said:
morekaos said:
I have now shifted my allegiance from Swalwell to Williamson!!

Marianne Williamson 'YODELS' as she gets passionate during Democratic debate - then says she will confront 'dark psychic force' and dismisses other Democrats as 'yada yada yada'

https://mol.im/a/7303863

But your still stuck in LB politics.

Absolutely, way more relevant to me. Trump loses this state no matter what so I support whoever will be the most entertaining opponent. Wish I could vote in the dem primary, maybe I?ll change my affiliation....hmmmm
 
Stack these kinds of antics on last nights circus and its Trump 2020! Here it comes...

Democrats just purged white party staffers, and it's a bigger deal than anyone wants to admit

The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, the House Democrats? powerful campaign arm, has just abruptly purged half a dozen staffers. Why? Because they are white.

It appears that no one had anything against these particular staffers ... except for the color of their skin. Although roughly half the committee?s full-time staff (13 of 27) were nonwhite, this was not enough for some Democratic members of Congress. They complained DCCC Chairwoman Cheri Bustos of Illinois had brought in too many white staffers when she won the position. And they put enough pressure on her that she sacrificed her loyal staffers to the god of diversity. ..This is about an organization that fires people from their current jobs because of their skin color.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/editorials/democrats-just-purged-white-party-staffers-and-its-a-bigger-deal-than-anyone-wants-to-admit
 
morekaos said:
I have now shifted my allegiance from Swalwell to Williamson!!

Marianne Williamson 'YODELS' as she gets passionate during Democratic debate - then says she will confront 'dark psychic force' and dismisses other Democrats as 'yada yada yada'

https://mol.im/a/7303863

after everything i heard last night, it's going to take a dark psychic force to beat trump next year LOL
 
Kings said:
morekaos said:
I have now shifted my allegiance from Swalwell to Williamson!!

Marianne Williamson 'YODELS' as she gets passionate during Democratic debate - then says she will confront 'dark psychic force' and dismisses other Democrats as 'yada yada yada'

https://mol.im/a/7303863

after everything i heard last night, it's going to take a dark psychic force to beat trump next year LOL

Thats a bingo!
https://youtu.be/Ugpg8XruhVk

https://youtu.be/Ugpg8XruhVk
 
I think I'm onto something....

Huckabee trolls Williamson, quips he might support her: 'She's got the groove!'

Gov. Mike Huckabee
?
@GovMikeHuckabee
I may abandon my support of @realDonaldTrump and go w/ Marianne Willamson.  I've already lit a candle, stroked a crystal, got in yoga pose, taken deep breaths, and chanted out loud and I feeling real love right now.  She's got the groove!

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/455455-huckabee-trolls-williamson-quips-he-might-support-her-shes-got-the-groove
 
Let's not kid ourselves any longer than we should.... this CNN clown show is all one big audition for who will end up being Biden's VP.  Unless Creepy Joe steps in it, and there's still time for it to occur, the nomination remains his to lose.

My guess is we'll see Biden/Warren bumper stickers after Super Tuesday 2020.  If Biden screws up between now and then, it may then be Harris/Warren 2020.

Time will tell.

I've been pretty clear since 2016 that my preference has been Sanders/Someone as rabid as Sanders. The contrast of Sanders versus The Tang Menace would be tailor made for oceans of popcorn and beer. Also, HRC shived Sanders so unfairly in 2016 that he deserves a 2nd chance IMHO. To quote Jefferson: "A revolution is good every now and then". Sanders wouldn't win, but sweet jeepers what a show!


My .02c
 
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