Presidential Elections

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So many great moments...

Buttiteg saying its insane having 11 million undocumented people with no path to citizenship never mention no healthcare.  Apparently, the established aslyum path or nearly 8 million on the family and employment wait lists should just get on a plane and get here.

Or that busing was such a wonderful solution

Or the night before with Booker acting angry and saying nothing but pablum.
 
Kings said:
irvinehomeowner said:
Kings said:
so many great moments last night

my favorite:

moderator: $1,000 per month for every adult is $3.2 trillion per year - how are you going to do that?

yang: what?

-yang2020

What was his eventual answer?

doesn't matter because that's all that will make headlines  ;)
https://youtu.be/j-pJzQJJiUs

I?m not really a fan but I think he?s the smartest guy on the stage by far.  He explains this in depth in his Ben Shapiro interview.

Though many think his ideas are crazy, he can probably outwit any of these clowns in an intellectual debate.
 
the dnc will tank him if he gets too popular anyway just like they did to bernie

Andrew Yang says microphone was 'not on' at times during Democratic debate

Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang claimed his microphone was "not on" a few times when he attempted to jump in during Thursday night's Democratic debate in Miami.

"There were also a few times, FYI, where I just started talking, being like, 'Hey, I want to add something there,' and my mic was not on," Yang said while speaking to supporters after the event. "And it's this sort of thing where, it's not like if you started talking, it takes over the [conversation]. It's like I was talking, but nothing was happening. And it was like, 'Oh f---.' So that happened a bit too."

The allegation from the tech entrepreneur comes as an analysis by The Hill shows Yang had the least amount of speaking time of all the 20 candidates who participated in the two nights of debates that took place Wednesday and Thursday.

NBC later pushed back on Yang's claims, telling The Hill "At no point during the debate was any candidate's microphone turned off or muted.?

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/450836-andrew-yang-says-microphone-was-not-on-at-times-during-democratic-debate
 
Kings said:
irvinehomeowner said:
Kings said:
so many great moments last night

my favorite:

moderator: $1,000 per month for every adult is $3.2 trillion per year - how are you going to do that?

yang: what?

-yang2020

What was his eventual answer?

doesn't matter because that's all that will make headlines  ;)

Actually quite the opposite. Turns out even conservatives and Republicans like him. Drudge poll had him as the winner by a large margin.https://www.vox.com/2019/6/28/19102467/democratic-debates-online-polls-gabbard-yang

Yang has massive grass-root support, and is still growing fast.
 
aquabliss said:
I?m not really a fan but I think he?s the smartest guy on the stage by far.  He explains this in depth in his Ben Shapiro interview.

Though many think his ideas are crazy, he can probably outwit any of these clowns in an intellectual debate.

I am already in the Yang Gang so I am obviously biased. I agree with you that many people who watched his Shapiro / Joe Rogan / Dave Rubin interview came away with similar conclusion.

He has broad bi-partisan appeal.

Here is his Shaprio Interview if anyone is interested.
https://youtu.be/-DHuRTvzMFw

Joe Rogan Interview
https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8

Dave Rubin
https://youtu.be/PlwG-XVBQJ4

Forgot to add his Sam Harris interview. This is actually where I found Yang.
https://youtu.be/sI1Xwre4DBI
 
Yang needs to learn how to sound a bit less robotic and engage the audience better.  Every time I hear him talk, it's like he's just reading a polished script in his head.
 
woodburyowner said:
Yang needs to learn how to sound a bit less robotic and engage the audience better.  Every time I hear him talk, it's like he's just reading a polished script in his head.

I agree. He needs to get better with his delivery especially in short formats. If he can speak like Mayor Pete, he would be polling much higher.

But I think people who are willing to listen to his hour long interview can easily get pass this because he has a lot of substance. This is the challenge for him.
 
Kenkoko said:
woodburyowner said:
Yang needs to learn how to sound a bit less robotic and engage the audience better.  Every time I hear him talk, it's like he's just reading a polished script in his head.

I agree. He needs to get better with his delivery especially in short formats. If he can speak like Mayor Pete, he would be polling much higher.

But I think people who are willing to listen to his hour long interview can easily get pass this because he has a lot of substance. This is the challenge for him.

unfortunately for yang, people do not have the attention span to watch multiple hour long interviews.  he may be a smart guy, but he lacks charisma that trump has and the ability to connect with people.  4chan online polls only get you so far.  the good thing for yang is that joe "my time is up" biden is falling flat on his face, so that opens up the playing field a bit more for unsung heroes.
 
Kings said:
... but he lacks charisma that trump has ...

Whoah whoah whoah. I had to re-read this twice.

Okay, now I know you are biased.

I tend to think myself as neutral because some things that Trump is doing I like, others no so much... but the last word I would use to describe Trump is "charisma".
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Kings said:
... but he lacks charisma that trump has ...

Whoah whoah whoah. I had to re-read this twice.

Okay, now I know you are biased.

I tend to think myself as neutral because some things that Trump is doing I like, others no so much... but the last word I would use to describe Trump is "charisma".

haha, me - biased?  ;)

you may not think he has charisma, but there is a reason trump took the country by storm with his ability to connect with the average american.  he's not rehearsed, he doesn't plan what he's going to say with focus groups, and he says what's really on his mind - even if it hurts people's feelings.  not only is that a refreshing quality for washington, it's an admirable quality that people look for in leaders. 

for the past 4 years, beginning with his campaign, trump has been selling out 20,000 seat stadiums for his rallies where he basically says the same thing every time.  that's rock star quality charisma if you ask me.
 
Kings said:
irvinehomeowner said:
Kings said:
... but he lacks charisma that trump has ...

Whoah whoah whoah. I had to re-read this twice.

Okay, now I know you are biased.

I tend to think myself as neutral because some things that Trump is doing I like, others no so much... but the last word I would use to describe Trump is "charisma".

haha, me - biased?  ;)

you may not think he has charisma, but there is a reason trump took the country by storm with his ability to connect with the average american.  he's not rehearsed, he doesn't plan what he's going to say with focus groups, and he says what's really on his mind - even if it hurts people's feelings.  not only is that a refreshing quality for washington, it's an admirable quality that people look for in leaders. 

for the past 4 years, beginning with his campaign, trump has been selling out 20,000 seat stadiums for his rallies where he basically says the same thing every time.  that's rock star quality charisma if you ask me.

Just because his rallies are attended by many people doesn't mean he has charisma. The things you mention are not equitable to charisma.

While I agree that he is shaking up Washington (and one of the things I do like about Trump), he is very far from being likable by personality... what's driving his popularity is his policies (which are often ill-planned) that people are in line with. His character however is the topic of so many jokes/comedians, that I think he is probably the most ridiculed president in recent history.

I guess if you like that Dr. Evil vibe, maybe he seems charismatic, but personality-wise, if I were to pick a c-word for Trump, it would be cringy.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Kings said:
irvinehomeowner said:
Kings said:
... but he lacks charisma that trump has ...

Whoah whoah whoah. I had to re-read this twice.

Okay, now I know you are biased.

I tend to think myself as neutral because some things that Trump is doing I like, others no so much... but the last word I would use to describe Trump is "charisma".

haha, me - biased?  ;)

you may not think he has charisma, but there is a reason trump took the country by storm with his ability to connect with the average american.  he's not rehearsed, he doesn't plan what he's going to say with focus groups, and he says what's really on his mind - even if it hurts people's feelings.  not only is that a refreshing quality for washington, it's an admirable quality that people look for in leaders. 

for the past 4 years, beginning with his campaign, trump has been selling out 20,000 seat stadiums for his rallies where he basically says the same thing every time.  that's rock star quality charisma if you ask me.

Just because his rallies are attended by many people doesn't mean he has charisma. The things you mention are not equitable to charisma.

While I agree that he is shaking up Washington (and one of the things I do like about Trump), he is very far from being likable by personality... what's driving his popularity is his policies (which are often ill-planned) that people are in line with. His character however is the topic of so many jokes/comedians, that I think he is probably the most ridiculed president in recent history.

I guess if you like that Dr. Evil vibe, maybe he seems charismatic, but personality-wise, if I were to pick a c-word for Trump, it would be cringy.

cha?ris?ma
/k??rizm?/

noun
1.
compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others.

trump has inspired devotion in millions.  and again, just because you're not one of them and can't see how people could possibly like him, doesn't mean he does not fit the definition.  the entire republican party went from actively suppressing him and opposing him to finally supporting him and his policies.  why?  because he is effective and his style produces results. 

what is your definition of charisma?

oh and p.s. you can't become president of the united states without being at least a little bit charismatic
 
Kings said:
irvinehomeowner said:
Kings said:
irvinehomeowner said:
Kings said:
... but he lacks charisma that trump has ...

Whoah whoah whoah. I had to re-read this twice.

Okay, now I know you are biased.

I tend to think myself as neutral because some things that Trump is doing I like, others no so much... but the last word I would use to describe Trump is "charisma".

haha, me - biased?  ;)

you may not think he has charisma, but there is a reason trump took the country by storm with his ability to connect with the average american.  he's not rehearsed, he doesn't plan what he's going to say with focus groups, and he says what's really on his mind - even if it hurts people's feelings.  not only is that a refreshing quality for washington, it's an admirable quality that people look for in leaders. 

for the past 4 years, beginning with his campaign, trump has been selling out 20,000 seat stadiums for his rallies where he basically says the same thing every time.  that's rock star quality charisma if you ask me.

Just because his rallies are attended by many people doesn't mean he has charisma. The things you mention are not equitable to charisma.

While I agree that he is shaking up Washington (and one of the things I do like about Trump), he is very far from being likable by personality... what's driving his popularity is his policies (which are often ill-planned) that people are in line with. His character however is the topic of so many jokes/comedians, that I think he is probably the most ridiculed president in recent history.

I guess if you like that Dr. Evil vibe, maybe he seems charismatic, but personality-wise, if I were to pick a c-word for Trump, it would be cringy.

cha?ris?ma
/k??rizm?/

noun
1.
compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others.

Wow, you missed a crucial part of the definition:

"compelling attractiveness or charm"

Trump is neither attractive nor charming. If you think so, well, I have questions about your taste. That skin color and hair style are on the opposite end of attractive and I think any reasonable person can admit that.

trump has inspired devotion in millions.  and again, just because you're not one of them and can't see how people could possibly like him, doesn't mean he does not fit the definition.  the entire republican party went from actively suppressing him and opposing him to finally supporting him and his policies.  why?  because he is effective and his style produces results. 

Again, that is not charisma. That's more like assertive, or stubborn, or even borderline bullying.

what is your definition of charisma?

If I were to pick a male who has charisma, I'm thinking more like George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Dwayne Johnson... etc. But actors are easy, former presidents... I hate to say this but Bill Clinton. I think Obama was charismatic, even George Bush in his own way... not so much his father though.

People who can get others to like them without effort or bias based on their agenda is what I would call charisma. If Trump were a Democrat, would you call that charisma?

I lean conservative and did not vote for Obama, but, I liked him... and that's what charisma is to me.

oh and p.s. you can't become president of the united states without being at least a little bit charismatic

That's different from saying that Trump has charisma. I think you're the first person I've heard say that about him... or maybe I just don't listen to/read enough politics to hear someone else make that claim.
 
Spotlight change. Move over Rudy the two kids have replaced him.
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/07/01/politics/ivanka-trump-donald-trump-jr/index.html

No wonder why Paul Ryan retired from being the Speaker of the House of Representatives. (like the most powerful congressman in the US at the time)

My guessing opinion:
I?m guessing he simply didn?t want to deal with issues that he had no control of and spend time with his family.

I?m sure we all would of done the same. (Get out when you can. Lol) I have an example. My friend told me he worked for a company that was losing money due to lack of sales and he didn?t work for the sales dept but was part of management. (yoy,mtd,ytd,didn?t meet budget like everything) I told him to bail because you don?t want to be the one to blame. To make the long story short my friend bounced.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Wow, you missed a crucial part of the definition:

"compelling attractiveness or charm"

Trump is neither attractive nor charming. If you think so, well, I have questions about your taste. That skin color and hair style are on the opposite end of attractive and I think any reasonable person can admit that.

that's an extremely shallow viewpoint and i question your moral compass if your definition of "attractiveness or charm" is limited to just physical traits

trump has inspired devotion in millions.  and again, just because you're not one of them and can't see how people could possibly like him, doesn't mean he does not fit the definition.  the entire republican party went from actively suppressing him and opposing him to finally supporting him and his policies.  why?  because he is effective and his style produces results. 

Again, that is not charisma. That's more like assertive, or stubborn, or even borderline bullying.

agree to disagree - what you see as assertive / stubborn / bullying may very well be seen by others as tactful, effective leadership style.  art of the deal  ;)

what is your definition of charisma?

If I were to pick a male who has charisma, I'm thinking more like George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Dwayne Johnson... etc. But actors are easy, former presidents... I hate to say this but Bill Clinton. I think Obama was charismatic, even George Bush in his own way... not so much his father though.

People who can get others to like them without effort or bias based on their agenda is what I would call charisma. If Trump were a Democrat, would you call that charisma?

I lean conservative and did not vote for Obama, but, I liked him... and that's what charisma is to me.

all of those presidents you listed have charisma, no disagreement there.  and we can play the hypothetical game all day, but in the end trump is not a democrat and therefore was ostracized by the media once he ran as a republican.  remember trump when he was on the apprentice?  everyone loved him.  do you believe he was charismatic then?  that's a better comparison than asking if he was a democrat.  it wasn't until trump ran as a republican that he became an evil, hateful racist and bigot.

oh and p.s. you can't become president of the united states without being at least a little bit charismatic

That's different from saying that Trump has charisma. I think you're the first person I've heard say that about him... or maybe I just don't listen to/read enough politics to hear someone else make that claim.

how is that different? if someone has no charisma, in what instance do you believe they would be voted to become president?  and don't say it's because the other person (hillary) has even less charisma  ;)
 
Corey Booker, Kamala Harris, etc. attacking Joe Biden for having a racist past shows how the modern Democratic Party is engaging in revisionist history.

A young Joe Biden worked with segregationists and KKK members in the Senate in the 1970s because at that time, all of the Democratic Party committee leaders were racists and segregationists. The Dems did not turn away from institutionalized racism until the Reagan Admin. Affirmative Action was enacted in the early 1970s by Richard Nixon. If Corey and Kamala thinks Joe Biden should not have cooperated with KKK members and segregationists in the 1970s, what they are saying is Biden should have been a member of the GOP. Unfortunately for Corey and Kamala, African American voters have a longer and much better memory than the current Dem candidates give them credit for.
 
Kings said:
irvinehomeowner said:
Wow, you missed a crucial part of the definition:

"compelling attractiveness or charm"

Trump is neither attractive nor charming. If you think so, well, I have questions about your taste. That skin color and hair style are on the opposite end of attractive and I think any reasonable person can admit that.

that's an extremely shallow viewpoint and i question your moral compass if your definition of "attractiveness or charm" is limited to just physical traits

Did I say that? I just gave an easy example. I question your reading if you believe that's an indicator of my moral compass.

Give me examples of non-physical traits that are attractive or charming for Trump.

trump has inspired devotion in millions.  and again, just because you're not one of them and can't see how people could possibly like him, doesn't mean he does not fit the definition.  the entire republican party went from actively suppressing him and opposing him to finally supporting him and his policies.  why?  because he is effective and his style produces results. 

Again, that is not charisma. That's more like assertive, or stubborn, or even borderline bullying.

agree to disagree - what you see as assertive / stubborn / bullying may very well be seen by others as tactful, effective leadership style.  art of the deal  ;)

Tactful, not so much, effective maybe. But neither qualify as charisma to me. But sure, we can disagree here.

what is your definition of charisma?

If I were to pick a male who has charisma, I'm thinking more like George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Dwayne Johnson... etc. But actors are easy, former presidents... I hate to say this but Bill Clinton. I think Obama was charismatic, even George Bush in his own way... not so much his father though.

People who can get others to like them without effort or bias based on their agenda is what I would call charisma. If Trump were a Democrat, would you call that charisma?

I lean conservative and did not vote for Obama, but, I liked him... and that's what charisma is to me.

all of those presidents you listed have charisma, no disagreement there.  and we can play the hypothetical game all day, but in the end trump is not a democrat and therefore was ostracized by the media once he ran as a republican.  remember trump when he was on the apprentice?  everyone loved him.  do you believe he was charismatic then?  that's a better comparison than asking if he was a democrat.  it wasn't until trump ran as a republican that he became an evil, hateful racist and bigot.

Actually, I did not like the Trump part of The Apprentice. I liked it even better when he had his kids do it or some other subs. I thought he made the show bad... which is why I don't see the charisma. So I was in disbelief when he decided to run for president.

oh and p.s. you can't become president of the united states without being at least a little bit charismatic

That's different from saying that Trump has charisma. I think you're the first person I've heard say that about him... or maybe I just don't listen to/read enough politics to hear someone else make that claim.

how is that different? if someone has no charisma, in what instance do you believe they would be voted to become president?  and don't say it's because the other person (hillary) has even less charisma  ;)

There have been quite a few non-charismatic presidents. I already named GBush Sr. I actually think Al Gore had more charisma than GW.

I'll stand by my contention that Trump has very little, if any, charisma... he was horrible in every single debate. I don't think he won because of charm or attractiveness, I don't even think morekaos would make that claim.
 
iho, i implore you to read this article.  i believe it offers a little insight on trump you and many on the left may be missing:

Trump?s Charisma

Several factors point to a Democratic victory in the next US presidential election, including success in the 2018 midterms, a series of state polls, and enormous rank and file enthusiasm, reflected in the large number of candidates who qualified for the debates. Still, the Democrats vastly underestimated Trump in 2016 and may repeat the mistake in 2020. Wishful thinking is not the only pitfall. Understanding the nature of Trump?s divisive personality, and the relation between that divisiveness and America?s politics, is still undeveloped. Here Max Weber?s theory of charisma may be helpful.

Charisma, according to Weber, is a quality of the individual personality that sets them aside from ordinary men and women, so that they are ?treated as endowed with ? exceptional powers or qualities?. Charisma supplements other forms of political power such as bureaucracy (Trump?s ?deep state?), plutocracy and aristocracy (strong in Weber?s time and perpetuated in the US in the legacy practices of elite universities). Writing in Germany during the First World War, Weber did not believe that traditional democratic values, such as equality and inclusion, could explain the politics of what he called ?mass-states? or ?leader-democracies?, such as Germany, Britain, France and the United States. Rather, such states generate charismatic leaders capable of strong and independent direction, both to allow mass democracy to flourish, and to fulfil their geopolitical role. According to Weber, the charismatic leader has three qualities, all of which Trump exemplifies, and all of which the Democrats misunderstand.

First, the charismatic leader?s power rests on beating rivals in competition, rather than on knowledge or right of inheritance; the charismatic leader is always an expert in struggle. Their status as victor, however, is always in doubt. Charisma is bestowed by the masses, who remain the ultimate authority; the claim to a special mission breaks down when it is not recognised by those to whom the leader ?feels he has been sent?. In Trump?s case, his charisma rests not so much on having previously beaten his rivals, as on beating them over and over, like a children?s superhero. Understanding this is key to understanding his constantly picking fights and engaging in apparently absurd conflicts, especially after he seems to have won a victory ? as with the Mueller Report, or immediately after his election. Democrats see this as an expression of personal insecurity, bad temper and bullying. It may well be, but Trump?s ?insecurity?, his unending struggle with those who question his legitimacy, is integral to his charisma.

Second, the charismatic leader in a democracy must articulate and defend a new direction and new values for the country as a whole, values that necessarily derive from creative individuals and not from institutions. The Democrats have difficulty seeing that Trump is doing this because of their defensiveness regarding the Obama presidency. Obama?s articulation of the need for what he called a ?new mindset?, not just a new policy, was in good part responsible for his charisma in 2008 (much greater than Trump?s). Obama?s switch from charismatic leader to pragmatic manager once he took office left a void into which Trump stepped eight years later. It is impossible to understand Trump?s historic role without seeing that he is fulfilling, however perversely, the promise of a new beginning that Obama made in 2008.

Third, charismatic leaders to demonstrate that they are personally responsible for their decisions in a way that the bureaucrat, or the party leader in a parliamentary system, is not. The liberal complaint that Trump makes everything about himself ? his egoism or narcissism ? misses the point that charisma must be personal. One way that this element of personal responsibility shows itself is by uninhibited associative speech, which presupposes a suspension of ego control ? what is often regarded as Trump ?running his mouth?. Here, taken more or less at random, is an example of Trump?s speech:

We have people coming into the country, or trying to come in, we?re stopping a lot of them. And we?re taking people out of the country, you wouldn?t believe how bad these people are.

The Democrats reduce this to Trump?s obviously egregious racism. But it is also an example of how he lets his guard down to convince his followers that they are seeing a ?real person?, not a scripted persona. Weber?s prototype for ancient charisma, the Hebrew prophets, frequently made public appearances in which they lacked control, behaved unpredictably and exposed themselves to abuse. Gladstone, Weber?s prototype for modern charisma, was noted for speaking extemporaneously, supposedly a sign of his personal responsibility or ?genuineness?. Here again it is Trump?s charisma, not his personality, that needs to be understood.

Still, Weber?s focus on charisma has a notable gap: what exactly creates the bond between the leader and his or her followers? Here, Freudian mass psychology deepens Weber?s analysis. Freud showed in his book on mass psychology that in democratic societies the charismatic bond may rest on an appeal to frustrated or unfulfilled narcissism. The followers idealise the leader as they once ? in childhood ? idealised themselves. For this to work, the charismatic leader has to possess not only exceptional qualities but also the typical qualities of the individuals who follow him, in a ?clearly marked and pure form? that gives the impression ?of greater force and of more freedom of libido?. The charismatic leader thus appears as an ?enlargement? of the follower, completing the follower?s self-image rather than, as in other forms of charisma, being out of reach.

Charismatic leaders may also appeal to their follower?s better natures ? as, for example, Lincoln and Roosevelt did. Such appeals to what Freud called the ego-ideal also raise self-esteem, more firmly than the narcissistic bond that Trump favours. Trump not only refuses to do this, but appeals to the opposite values to Lincoln and Roosevelt: nationalism rather than patriotism, exclusion rather than inclusion, self-interest rather than social justice. This is why he stirs up fury and hatred, along with loyalty and admiration. Both the love and the hate arise out of an intense personal connection, which is what Weber meant by charisma.

Understanding Trump?s charisma offers important clues to understanding the problems that the Democrats need to address. Most important, the Democratic candidate must convey a sense that he or she will fulfil the promise of 2008: not piecemeal reform but a genuine, full-scale change in America?s way of thinking. It?s also crucial to recognise that, like Britain, America is at a turning point and must go in one direction or another. Finally, the candidate must speak to Americans? sense of self-respect linked to social justice and inclusion. While Weber?s analysis of charisma arose from the German situation, it has special relevance to the United States of America, the first mass democracy, whose Constitution invented the institution of the presidency as a recognition of the indispensable role that unique individuals play in history.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2019/june/trump-s-charisma
 
This will be a gift that keeps on giving. Talk more Jr.


eyephone said:
Spotlight change. Move over Rudy the two kids have replaced him.
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/07/01/politics/ivanka-trump-donald-trump-jr/index.html

No wonder why Paul Ryan retired from being the Speaker of the House of Representatives. (like the most powerful congressman in the US at the time)

My guessing opinion:
I?m guessing he simply didn?t want to deal with issues that he had no control of and spend time with his family.

I?m sure we all would of done the same. (Get out when you can. Lol) I have an example. My friend told me he worked for a company that was losing money due to lack of sales and he didn?t work for the sales dept but was part of management. (yoy,mtd,ytd,didn?t meet budget like everything) I told him to bail because you don?t want to be the one to blame. To make the long story short my friend bounced.
 
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