President Trump

[Movingup]

These are the type of comments I find annoying. It's parroting of right wing radio talk. Do you think there was any obstruction from the Right during the past eight years? Any? Do you remember them failing to hold a SCOTUS hearing for nearly a year? No? Okay...

Annoying? Please tell us how many cabinet members were confirmed by the first day when Obama took office in 2008. You are throwing random darts using the right wing excuse.

It was decided by the Republicans that a lame duck President should not nominate Superior court justice. It became a mandate for the election who the people want to be the President. The people spoke, too bad for the liberals, they lost.

 

[morekaos]

These are the type of comments I find annoying. It's parroting of right wing radio talk. Do you think there was any obstruction from the Right during the past eight years? Any? Do you remember them failing to hold a SCOTUS hearing for nearly a year? No? Okay...

Annoying? Please tell us how many cabinet members were confirmed by the first day when Obama took office in 2008. You are throwing random darts using the right wing excuse.

It was decided by the Republicans that a lame duck President should not nominate Superior court justice. It became a mandate for the election who the people want to be the President. The people spoke, too bad for the liberals, they lost.

No Joe Biden set up that policy in 1992..just parroting Uncle Joe
https://youtu.be/oVvxGa0zhWo

 

[riznick]

These are the type of comments I find annoying. It's parroting of right wing radio talk. Do you think there was any obstruction from the Right during the past eight years? Any? Do you remember them failing to hold a SCOTUS hearing for nearly a year? No? Okay...

What was your opinion when they behaved that way?

 

[Ready2Downsize]

"Yes, it is a racist cliche that you think the children in these countries are taught to hate America. Painting all people of a group due to the actions of a very few is prejudice. When race is involved (here, Persian/Arabian) then it is racism. If you would prefer, I will use the term prejudiced instead of racist. If a few people in a group are taught to hate people in another group, do we then stop all people in the first group from going to where the second group is? Do you ask about people coming here from "white" countries?"


So then Tim, you would consider someone who obviously hates "old white people" and can't wait till they are dead so they can't vote for Trump again to be a racist? Sound familiar?

 

[Perspective]

These are the type of comments I find annoying. It's parroting of right wing radio talk. Do you think there was any obstruction from the Right during the past eight years? Any? Do you remember them failing to hold a SCOTUS hearing for nearly a year? No? Okay...

What was your opinion when they behaved that way?

As someone NOT beholden to the Right nor Left, the obstruction, i.e. politics, is always distasteful, and sometimes, abhorrent. It's just funny listening to either side complain about obstruction. It's either due to a complete lack of knowledge or willful ignorance. Probably both...

 

[Movingup]

As someone NOT beholden to the Right nor Left, the obstruction, i.e. politics, is always distasteful, and sometimes, abhorrent. It's just funny listening to either side complain about obstruction. It's either due to a complete lack of knowledge or willful ignorance. Probably both...

So you being so unbiased, can we get your answer how many cabinet members are confirmed on day 1 when Obama took office in 2008?

 

[peppy]

As someone NOT beholden to the Right nor Left, the obstruction, i.e. politics, is always distasteful, and sometimes, abhorrent. It's just funny listening to either side complain about obstruction. It's either due to a complete lack of knowledge or willful ignorance. Probably both...

So you being so unbiased, can we get your answer how many cabinet members are confirmed on day 1 when Obama took office in 2008?

I think qualifications may have played a role back then. Also, a better precedent would be the confirmation process on his second term which was way more contentious due to influence from the tea party. It was then that they had to lower the threshold for cabinet confirmations to 51. Obstructionism served the Rs well in the past; don't be so surprised when the Ds use it now.

 

[Perspective]

As someone NOT beholden to the Right nor Left, the obstruction, i.e. politics, is always distasteful, and sometimes, abhorrent. It's just funny listening to either side complain about obstruction. It's either due to a complete lack of knowledge or willful ignorance. Probably both...

So you being so unbiased, can we get your answer how many cabinet members are confirmed on day 1 when Obama took office in 2008?

Sure, I can research your cute question and answer it, after you tell me how this anecdote is material?

 

[Movingup]

As someone NOT beholden to the Right nor Left, the obstruction, i.e. politics, is always distasteful, and sometimes, abhorrent. It's just funny listening to either side complain about obstruction. It's either due to a complete lack of knowledge or willful ignorance. Probably both...

So you being so unbiased, can we get your answer how many cabinet members are confirmed on day 1 when Obama took office in 2008?

Sure, I can research your cute question and answer it, after you tell me how this anecdote is material?

I will save you time coming from the "right wing talk show garbage" you are referring to. 7 confirmed on the day Obama took office.

 

[Movingup]

I think qualifications may have played a role back then. Also, a better precedent would be the confirmation process on his second term which was way more contentious due to influence from the tea party. It was then that they had to lower the threshold for cabinet confirmations to 51. Obstructionism served the Rs well in the past; don't be so surprised when the Ds use it now.

I assume this is your "biased" opinion, which you are entitled to.

 

[morekaos]

As someone NOT beholden to the Right nor Left, the obstruction, i.e. politics, is always distasteful, and sometimes, abhorrent. It's just funny listening to either side complain about obstruction. It's either due to a complete lack of knowledge or willful ignorance. Probably both...

So you being so unbiased, can we get your answer how many cabinet members are confirmed on day 1 when Obama took office in 2008?

I think qualifications may have played a role back then. Also, a better precedent would be the confirmation process on his second term which was way more contentious due to influence from the tea party. It was then that they had to lower the threshold for cabinet confirmations to 51. Obstructionism served the Rs well in the past; don't be so surprised when the Ds use it now.

The problem for the Ds is what i pointed out before.  They removed all their safety's and now those torpedoes are coming back at them rendering their tactics useless.  Foot shot!!

 

[peppy]

As someone NOT beholden to the Right nor Left, the obstruction, i.e. politics, is always distasteful, and sometimes, abhorrent. It's just funny listening to either side complain about obstruction. It's either due to a complete lack of knowledge or willful ignorance. Probably both...

So you being so unbiased, can we get your answer how many cabinet members are confirmed on day 1 when Obama took office in 2008?

I think qualifications may have played a role back then. Also, a better precedent would be the confirmation process on his second term which was way more contentious due to influence from the tea party. It was then that they had to lower the threshold for cabinet confirmations to 51. Obstructionism served the Rs well in the past; don't be so surprised when the Ds use it now.

The problem for the Ds is what i pointed out before.  They removed all their safety's and now those torpedoes are coming back at them rendering their tactics useless.  Foot shot!!

They are still entitled to voice their objections and vote against things they disagree with (even if it doesn't change the outcome).

 

[tim]

As someone NOT beholden to the Right nor Left, the obstruction, i.e. politics, is always distasteful, and sometimes, abhorrent. It's just funny listening to either side complain about obstruction. It's either due to a complete lack of knowledge or willful ignorance. Probably both...

So you being so unbiased, can we get your answer how many cabinet members are confirmed on day 1 when Obama took office in 2008?

I think qualifications may have played a role back then. Also, a better precedent would be the confirmation process on his second term which was way more contentious due to influence from the tea party. It was then that they had to lower the threshold for cabinet confirmations to 51. Obstructionism served the Rs well in the past; don't be so surprised when the Ds use it now.

The problem for the Ds is what i pointed out before.  They removed all their safety's and now those torpedoes are coming back at them rendering their tactics useless.  Foot shot!!

I wish the filibuster would just go away. If a party controls a majority of the houses and the Pres, it seems like they should get to do what they want. If they want to put unqualified people into positions of power, then they should get to. And then they are responsible for the results. It works out or it doesn't. If they want to listen to people protest and change some things, then they can. If they don't want to, then they can ignore them. Am I too simplistic here? Am I missing something?

 

[tim]

I have no way to know if they or anyone I know is being totally honest with me. And you don't know if your friends are. I guess I don't get it when you say that anecdotes can be abused and then you give an anecdote. Why bother giving it?

What sort of friends are these?  Facebook friends?  Have you had serious in person 1 on 1 conversations with them?

They are friends I see in person. One is a person that I talk with every week. She wears a hijab, even in the heat of the summer. Another is a person that I have known (her and her family) for over 20 years. Yes, I have had serious conversations with them. Why didn't you give any details about your friends?

Are children in those countries taught to hate America?

Wow, what other racist cliches do you fear? How many white children here are taught to hate Muslims? Do you really fear children?

Racist cliche?  Wow.  Do you enjoy rejecting the truth or is it just second nature to you?  My remarks were not racist at all and not part of any cliche.  You are taking this to new lows and showing us what lack of character you truly have.  You aren't even attempting an honest conversation, and you've gone full dipshit here.

Yes, it is a racist cliche that you think the children in these countries are taught to hate America. Painting all people of a group due to the actions of a very few is prejudice. When race is involved (here, Persian/Arabian) then it is racism. If you would prefer, I will use the term prejudiced instead of racist. If a few people in a group are taught to hate people in another group, do we then stop all people in the first group from going to where the second group is? Do you ask about people coming here from "white" countries?

It is a cliche because people in the USA without a lot of education about these countries thinks that everyone there goes around chanting "Death to America."

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that does happen.  It might not happen with "everyone", but it certainly happens.  Perhaps you need more education. 

When I was studying the Middle East in college, we were shown videos in classrooms where kids were taught to hate America.  It's pretty scary.  Even more scary was that if you put yourself in their shoes, it makes a lot of sense.  It's not just classrooms.  It's parents.  It's communities... 

Drop off an American in one of those countries, see how long he lives walking around alone and unarmed.

I never said that it didn't happen at all. But it is not the norm. It is not common enough that we should stop all people from those countries from coming here. You want to also stop people that are fleeing from Assad? People that have put their lives at risk to be translators for the US military in Iraq? They don't hate the USA. Those are people that ARE being affected by this.

From what I can tell many of those countries aren't really safe for anyone.http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/29/politics/trump-travel-ban-countries/But I am not sure why that matters. We are accepting people that are trying to leave those countries. We aren't sending Americans there.

Why did you have to go into such a personal attack here? Wow. Because I challenge and question you, I am a dipshit?

No, you aren't a dipshit for asking a question.  You were called a dipshit because you were being a dipshit. 
"What other racist cliches do you fear?"
What sort of response do you expect?  I'm done with you and your elitist prick attitude.  You are out of tune with America and seem unwilling to understand other people's perspectives.

I expected a rational response. I guess I expected too much. When you took offense, I said we could just use the term prejudice instead. If you don't think it is, then you can explain why.

Why am I being elitist? Because I am not calling you names? You do not seem willing to understand my perspective. How can I understand yours when you won't even answer most of my questions?

And what about all the things children here are taught to hate? I ask that as a way to spur further thought and conversation. Children here are taught to hate Muslims, latinos, atheists, Russians, Patriots fans, the Dallas Cowboys, yankees, southerners, the coastal elite, cats, etc.

1. It's a different kind of hate.  For those, where it is i the same kind of hate, people should be very afraid.
2. We aren't inviting them here.  They are already here.  Do you see the difference?

Yes it is different. But we aren't bringing people here that hate the USA. We are bringing people here that want to leave the other countries. We spend months vetting them.

Why won't you say why the USA needed the change that Trump made? This seems like a question that anyone for the ban would be able to answer. I am not trying to be elitist here. I am really trying to get you to answer the question. I am trying to get anyone to answer the question.

 

[tim]

I think we need a break from the animosity.http://imgur.com/gallery/y0vWz

 

[riznick]

But it is not the norm.

Is it not the norm in any of those countries?  Are you 100% confident about that?  Say it's not the norm.  What if it happens 20% of the time?  Is that not enough?  How rare is it? How does the news in Iran present the US to it's people?

Yes it is different. But we aren't bringing people here that hate the USA. We are bringing people here that want to leave the other countries. We spend months vetting them.

Why won't you say why the USA needed the change that Trump made? This seems like a question that anyone for the ban would be able to answer. I am not trying to be elitist here. I am really trying to get you to answer the question. I am trying to get anyone to answer the question.

I embrace our refugee immigrants with open arms.  I'm sure you saw me stick up for refugees as well.  http://www.talkirvine.com/index.php/topic,15157.msg304597.html#msg304597

What I am doing here is encouraging critical thinking.  I'm explaining how people think.  I'm explaining fears that people have.

I think some of my fears are rational.  You disagree.  I'm not nearly as afraid as the rest of the US.  My feelings on this don't really matter.  The US is your community.  You should respect your neighbors.

Say you live in a house with 3 people.  One of those 3 people doesn't like a particular house guest.  The other 2 people should respect that person's fear and not invite the problem person over.  It doesn't matter if the fear is irrational or unreasonable.  You respect others within your community.  The USA is our house.  The USA is our community.

 

[tim]

But it is not the norm.

Is it not the norm in any of those countries?  Are you 100% confident about that?  Say it's not the norm.  What if it happens 20% of the time?  Is that not enough?  How rare is it? How does the news in Iran present the US to it's people?

Yes it is different. But we aren't bringing people here that hate the USA. We are bringing people here that want to leave the other countries. We spend months vetting them.

Why won't you say why the USA needed the change that Trump made? This seems like a question that anyone for the ban would be able to answer. I am not trying to be elitist here. I am really trying to get you to answer the question. I am trying to get anyone to answer the question.

I embrace our refugee immigrants with open arms.  In fact, I am married to one.  I'm sure you saw me stick up for refugees as well.  http://www.talkirvine.com/index.php/topic,15157.msg304597.html#msg304597

What I am doing here is encouraging critical thinking.  I'm explaining how people think.  I'm explaining fears that people have.

I think some of my fears are rational.  You disagree.  I'm not nearly as afraid as the rest of the US.  My feelings on this don't really matter.  The US is your community.  You should respect your neighbors.

Say you live in a house with 3 people.  One of those 3 people doesn't like a particular house guest.  The other 2 people should respect that person's fear and not invite the problem person over.  It doesn't matter if the fear is irrational or unreasonable.  The USA is our house.

Thank you for replying! I'm really not trying to be an ass. I am perhaps failing at that sometimes here.

I have no stats to prove it is not the norm in every country. Have you met someone who was raised that way? I haven't. I haven't even heard a name of someone who was. All those I have met that immigrated here love this country. I guess I am relying on anecdotes here.

I imagine the news in Iran does not present the USA well. How does the news here present Iran? Not well. Yet I do not think vetted USA citizens are a threat if they visit Iran. And I do not think vetted Iranian immigrants are a threat to the USA.

Yes, I think it just comes down to you and I valuing different principles differently. Like you said, I am less afraid.

I see what you are saying with the house analogy. I want to take your analogy further, but not to be argumentative. I'm just trying to deepen the analogy so that it rings more true to me, thereby showing a little more of my perspective. What if the person that 1 resident of the 3 doesn't like is a person that just saved the life of 1 of the other residents? Or if the disliked person needed a place to stay to escape their abusive spouse? If we do what the 1 of 3 wants, then the 2 of 3 don't get what they want. And neither does the guest. When do we do what the 1 wants and when do we do what the others want? (I'm not sure that question really has a specific answer; I'm just throwing it out there for thought.)

I get that some people have fears. But we already have extensive vetting for all who come here. Instead of changing the law, the administration should inform people of how much is done in that regard. If people knew all that we did, they would not be so afraid. But Trump took the path of telling people only he could save them. For that to work, he has to make sure people think they need saving.

Truly an honest question coming up. Were you answering my question as to why we needed the change in law that Trump made? Cuz I don't think I am quite getting that if you did.

I also want to clarify that this isn't a black and white issue. (Not that you think it is - I just want to clarify this.) There is no all-safe option. There is no all-danger option. It is a continuum. I think the current immigration policy and vetting procedures are already far enough towards the safe/restrictive end, and away from the danger/loose end. You want the slider moved further towards safe/restrictive, I believe. And you think that Trump's changes do just that. I think his changes don't actually move it towards that end. I think they make things much more restrictive for some people, and not any safer for anyone.

 

[fortune11]

" Say you live in a house with 3 people.  One of those 3 people doesn't like a particular house guest.  The other 2 people should respect that person's fear and not invite the problem person over.  It doesn't matter if the fear is irrational or unreasonable.  The USA is our house. "

I hope you realize how utterly asinine this statement is .  Now lets say put this in perspective

what if that third person doesn't like blacks (50s 60s) or doesn't like gays (80s) or Irish (late 19th century)  or Jews (early 20th century)  -- maybe the better option is to educate that bigoted member of the house. 

If you live in Irvine / OC (as most people reading this are) -- your interactions with Muslims are not with the average person from the middle east - rather it is that thoroughly vetted professional (maybe your doctor) that waited many months / years for a visa before he / she could get in. 

Take a look at Japan - that country shut off its borders long time ago and has been literally dying - ageing population and ossifying economy. 

No one is against thorough and smart screening .  But this type of dimwitted ban sends a wrong message to all the talented and entrepreneurial people in the world. 

Cannot stress this enough - your job / little small business is not an island or a bubble where global forces don't affect you.  And everyone who opposes idiots in the white house is not a liberal.  Many of us are ex GOP voters who are genuinely concerned about the long term future of this country, it is not a seedy atlantic city trump hotel that he can bankrupt and then move on.

Don't get fooled by Dow 20,000 (that 30 stock index is meaningless anyways) and assume everything is ok.  The  seeds are being sown for a 2007-8 like crash if trump gets to have his way with the economy. 

 

[fortune11]

economy is in safe hands ... after all an " accomplished  businessman " can only be good for business right ? 


WASHINGTON ? President Donald Trump was confused about the dollar: Was it a strong one that?s good for the economy? Or a weak one?

So he made a call ? except not to any of the business leaders Trump brought into his administration or even to an old friend from his days in real estate. Instead, he called his national security adviser, retired Lt. Gen. Mike Flynn, according to two sources familiar with Flynn?s accounts of the incident.

Flynn has a long record in counterintelligence but not in macroeconomics. And he told Trump he didn?t know, that it wasn?t his area of expertise, that, perhaps, Trump should ask an economist instead.

Trump was not thrilled with that response ? but that may have been a function of the time of day. Trump had placed the call at 3 a.m., according to one of Flynn?s retellings ? although neither the White House nor Flynn?s office responded to requests for confirmation about that detail.

For Americans who based their impression of Trump on the competent and decisive tycoon he portrayed on his ?Apprentice? TV reality shows, the portrait from these and many other tidbits emerging from his administration may seem a shock: an impulsive, sometimes petty chief executive more concerned with the adulation of the nation than the details of his own policies ? and quick to assign blame when things do not go his way.

Unsurprisingly, Trump?s volatile behavior has created an environment ripe for leaks from his executive agencies and even within his White House. And while leaks typically involve staffers sabotaging each other to improve their own standing or trying to scuttle policy ideas they find genuinely problematic, Trump?s 2-week-old administration has a third category: leaks from White House and agency officials alarmed by the president?s conduct.

?I?ve been in this town for 26 years. I have never seen anything like this,? said Eliot Cohen, a senior State Department official under President George W. Bush and a member of his National Security Council. ?I genuinely do not think this is a mentally healthy president.?

 

[eyephone]

If you live in Irvine / OC (as most people reading this are) -- your interactions with Muslims are not with the average person from the middle east - rather it is that thoroughly vetted professional (maybe your doctor) that waited many months / years for a visa before he / she could get in. 

Give me a break? This is totally unbelievable. Not all of them are professional.