spootieho said:
tim said:
spootieho said:
Are children in those countries taught to hate America?
Wow, what other racist cliches do you fear? How many white children here are taught to hate Muslims? Do you really fear children?
Racist cliche? Wow. Do you enjoy rejecting the truth or is it just second nature to you? My remarks were not racist at all and not part of any cliche. You are taking this to new lows and showing us what lack of character you truly have. You aren't even attempting an honest conversation, and you've gone full dipshit here.
Yes, it is a racist cliche that you think the children in these countries are taught to hate America. Painting all people of a group due to the actions of a very few is prejudice. When race is involved (here, Persian/Arabian) then it is racism. If you would prefer, I will use the term prejudiced instead of racist. If a few people in a group are taught to hate people in another group, do we then stop all people in the first group from going to where the second group is? Do you ask about people coming here from "white" countries?
It is a cliche because people in the USA without a lot of education about these countries thinks that everyone there goes around chanting "Death to America."
Why did you have to go into such a personal attack here? Wow. Because I challenge and question you, I am a dipshit?
And what about all the things children here are taught to hate? I ask that as a way to spur further thought and conversation. Children here are taught to hate Muslims, latinos, atheists, Russians, Patriots fans, the Dallas Cowboys, yankees, southerners, the coastal elite, cats, etc.
spootieho said:
The goal of my post was to get people critically thinking. Try to look at things from other people's perspectives. You pretty much disregarded every single point without much thought.
Actually, I did give it thought. Why did you assume I didn't? I asked a lot of questions in response to yours to get people to think critically and to look at things from other people's perspectives. I notice you didn't answer many of my questions.
spootieho said:
Just so you know... Children grow up to be adults. I shouldn't need to play captain obvious, as you should know this already. People who were children 20 years ago are adults today. Quite a few people who were children 5 years ago are adults today. So yeah, I'm afraid of people who were taught as children to hate America and you should be too.
tim said:
It is weird that you say "maybe we are already doing enough, maybe not." Here's an idea - figure that out BEFORE disrupting people's lives.
No. First you ensure your own safety. Then you assess the situation.
They aren't entitled to come here. Coming here is a privilege. If we need to disrupt that privilege while we take care of our needs, that's our right. We are entitled to have our government protect our borders. We are entitled to have our government look out for our concerns.
I shouldn't need to play captain obvious, but our government ALREADY is protecting our borders. Do you actually think that all the previous Presidents, Congressmen, Senators, and bureaucrats haven't been taking care of this? When someone wants to change the laws, it works out better if they know what problem they are trying to solve and how to solve it. I write software for a living. If I went into some code and changed it but I couldn't tell my boss how I made it better, I would get fired.
I am not arguing about what we are "entitled" to do. I am arguing about what is "good" for us to do. And by "good", I mean both beneficial and ethical.
It is beneficial to us to let in refugees and immigrants that have been vetted as we vet them. Neither you nor anyone else has been able to say what more vetting needs to be done. These immigrants come here and become productive members of society.
Some become doctors serving under-served areas of the country. They aren't taking jobs away from Americans. They are doing jobs that Americans are not.
Look at all the tech companies that filed an amicus brief in the court case. Why do you think they did that?
It is ethical for us to let refugees in. I believe that as citizens of humanity, we have a moral obligation to help those that are in need. Perhaps you don't feel that. That is fine. Disagreements come down to a disagreement about facts or a disagreement about values. My values say that I want us to help more refugees.
People have been in the vetting process for months. They are making plans and changing their lives when they get their visa. And then this EO just barred them from coming. Doesn't that seem mean to you? When Obama did his version of it, it slowed down the process; it didn't just bar people from coming here. There are scientific researchers and universities expecting some of these people to arrive. Before screwing these people over, it would be good to figure out if we should or not.
spootieho said:
tim said:
Sounds like you are abusing your anecdotes. My Muslim friends feel the opposite of yours.
Uh yeah, that's why I made disclosures.
Are your Muslim friends recent refugees or recent immigrants? Are they from one of those countries high in terror? Do you personally hang out with them in person and have deep conversations about current events? Are they being totally honest with you and themselves? Are you being truly honest with your response?
I have no way to know if they or anyone I know is being totally honest with me. And you don't know if your friends are. I guess I don't get it when you say that anecdotes can be abused and then you give an anecdote. Why bother giving it?
