President Trump

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Loco_local said:
Drunk driving and domestic violence seem to be the biggest killers in Irvine. I will feel safer when el presidente signs an executive order banning alcohol and people living with family members.
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Funny :) ,  but your  pithy statement gets to the heart of that matter here . 

The biggest problem ravaging trump country (parts of midwest and south) is death from opioid overdose.  Surveys show many of those same voters have never met a muslim in their life. But a sure way to get them fired up is the spectre of "sharia law" (whatever that means) , not withstanding that most muslims who immigrate here are highly qualified and better integrated and the European problem with ethnic strife is a poor comparison. 

And the net will expand in different ways.  Steve Bannon (the real president) has already said that there are too many qualified Asians in this country ... This is from his interview with trump (actual audio available in the link , lest people start dismissing this fact as " fake news" )
http://www.vox.com/2017/1/29/14429984/trump-immigration-order-steve-bannon

TRUMP: We have to keep our talented people in this country.

BANNON: Um?

TRUMP: I think you agree with that. Do you agree with that?

BANNON: Well I got a tougher ? you know, when two thirds or three quarters of the CEOs in Silicon Valley are from South Asia or from Asia, I think ? on, my point is, a country?s more like, [inaudible], a country?s more than an economy. We?re a civic society.
 
Loco_local said:
Drunk driving and domestic violence seem to be the biggest killers in Irvine. I will feel safer when el presidente signs an executive order banning alcohol and people living with family members.
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Congrats on the strawman argument.
 
Perspective said:
Can we end the lie that "the media got the election spectacularly wrong"? The pollsters all forecast results within a margin of error. The results in the Rust Belt were within the margin of error. King Troll had to get a few states to flip a few points within the margin of error. It was unlikely. The media reported this, and now folks are mischaracterizing this.
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I think the point is that most of the media (including Fox news btw) was not taking possibility of a Trump victory seriously , even "alternative facts " Kelly Ann Conway was blaming the media for what she though was impending defeat , as late as 6 pm the day of the election.  But agree w you that polls were not entirely wrong - the correlation was high in the midwest coupled w the margin of error swing in his direction.
 
Clinton Team Blames Obama More Than Putin, Comey for Election Loss
http://freebeacon.com/politics/clinton-team-blames-obama-election-loss/

My comment: Its a big time joke. The election was not even close. She didn't step into Wisconsin. Her last push was Florida and Ohio. We all know how that went. Always blaming other people and not taking responsibility. (For example the emails, when she did it was too late in the game)

Perspective said:
Labelling Trump King Troll is inflammatory. It's also accurate. He talks like his position is much more powerful than the Constitution allows, and he is the most infamous Twitter troll. Is this even disputable?

Can we end the lie that "the media got the election spectacularly wrong"? The pollsters all forecast results within a margin of error. The results in the Rust Belt were within the margin of error. King Troll had to get a few states to flip a few points within the margin of error. It was unlikely. The media reported this, and now folks are mischaracterizing this.
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Party of Reagan ...

(CNN) President Donald Trump appeared to equate US actions with the authoritarian regime of Russian President Vladimir Putin in an interview released Saturday, saying, "There are a lot of killers. You think our country's so innocent?"

Trump made the remark during an interview with Fox News' Bill O'Reilly, saying he respected his Russian counterpart.

"But he's a killer," O'Reilly said to Trump.

"There are a lot of killers. You think our country's so innocent?" Trump replied.
 
@Tim:

Hyperbole doesn't prove a point, it just draws attention to a statement and is not as effective as a proper counter.

I disagree with you about lack of "good" in the travel ban. Our current measures are not enough. I understand you feel that the US should take in refugees but at what cost?

I also think that Trump's executive orders were borderline  illegal. Not sure where the checks and balances are but I thought measures like that required judicial approval.

But I still contend that something needs to be done... I just don't think that what was done is the same as burning down your house or nuking your own city.

And i think Trump is a clown too, but he's the man in office so like spootiehoo I'm trying to be positive about it. I did not vote for either so it would have been bad either way. Trump is polittically dumb (although that is relative considering his success) but Hilary is conniving and I think that was a factor in her defeat.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
@Tim:

Hyperbole doesn't prove a point, it just draws attention to a statement and is not as effective as a proper counter.

I disagree with you about lack of "good" in the travel ban. Our current measures are not enough. I understand you feel that the US should take in refugees but at what cost?

I also think that Trump's executive orders were borderline illegal. Not sure where the checks and balances are but I thought measures like that required judicial approval.
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Yeah, they don't require judicial approval. But administrations run by adult humans usually run these things by some lawyers to make sure they are good. This administration prefers to just do things on their own. They don't want to run things by others because they are insecure and don't want to get criticized. They do not understand that there is a lot they don't know. Hubris is a common (universal?) problem early in a new Presidency. Trump is not alone in that. This is also a problem that people were worried about in electing a person with no experience in politics. Trump is used to just firing people that get in his way. He cannot do that now.


irvinehomeowner said:
But I still contend that something needs to be done... I just don't think that what was done is the same as burning down your house or nuking your own city.
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No one said they are the same. Please stop saying we did. It looks like you don't understand hyperbole. I never said the two things are the same. I then even explained that hyperbole was used to show that just doing "something" is not always good. Now you seem to be repeating that "something" needs to be done. "Something" is not a plan. What IS this "something?" You asked me to be specific, yet you refuse to be. WHY does "something" need to be done? What is the PROBLEM that needs to be addressed? "Our current measures are not enough." Not enough for what? Not enough to prevent the ZERO deaths due to terrorist attacks from refugees in the USA?


irvinehomeowner said:
And i think Trump is a clown too, but he's the man in office so like spootiehoo I'm trying to be positive about it. I did not vote for either so it would have been bad either way. Trump is polittically dumb (although that is relative considering his success) but Hilary is conniving and I think that was a factor in her defeat.
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I'm glad we can agree on the clown-ness. :) Hey, I really would like him to succeed. But he is still an embarrassment. Why does he have to say "so-called judge"? Why can't he just be a man about it and say that he disagrees with the judge?

I hope people are not including me with those who are crying wolf. I do not go crazy about everything Trump does. I disagree with most of it. I think most of what he does and says he will do (lots of deregulation) will help business in the short term and hurt the country after he is gone.

During normal times, his nomination of Gorsuch would sail through the Senate. But the Republican Senate took us way out of normal times when they wouldn't even give Garland a hearing. Trump didn't cause that, but it may affect him. Perhaps he wouldn't be President without the Senate doing that, but it doesn't make sense to blame him for it (not that anyone is).
 
fortune11 said:
I think the point is that most of the media (including Fox news btw) was not taking possibility of a Trump victory seriously , even "alternative facts " Kelly Ann Conway was blaming the media for what she though was impending defeat , as late as 6 pm the day of the election.  But agree w you that polls were not entirely wrong - the correlation was high in the midwest coupled w the margin of error swing in his direction.
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People who get hooked on the whole "alternative facts" shitflinging are probably going to be dismissed.  Even that was taken out of context and over exaggerated.  It was over some dick measuring contest that nobody really cares about except those who are opportunistically outraged on either side. 

That term was used one time, by Conway, when put on the spot in an interview.  In full context, she was stating that they used different metrics to make their claim.  Unfortunately for her, those metrics were flawed.  She wasn't prepared enough for the lions den.  She corrected herself later with a twitter post after she got all the facts.  If this term was more commonly used, then maybe it would matter more.

All of that shitflinging distracts us from what really matters.  Yes, our administration shouldn't be so adamant that they are correct until they get all their facts straight.  We've come to expect this from our current administration.  I don't think it's good as it hurts the credibility of our current administration.  We might doubt whatever we hear until we are assured from another source whether it's true or not.  We've learned to distrust our past administrations as well.  One of the big appeals of Trump was that he's not a politician.  He's not going to be politically correct.  People expect this behavior and aren't going to be too phased by it.
 
i1 said:
0: refugees from countries in the travel ban that have killed anyone in terrorist attacks in the U.S.
17: people that have been convicted of attempted terror attacks on US soil in the last ***40 years*** from the 7 countries
0.00003%: chance of dying in an attack by a foreign-born terrorist
9: people killed per year on average by Muslim extremists in the U.S. since 9/11
12,843: people killed per year on average by guns in the U.S.
37,000: deaths per year in the U.S. by traffic accidents
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Statistics are great until they are abused.  Statistics can be dangerous and harmful when abused.  Each one of those listed things has different circumstances.  They do help show some perspective, but it's comparing apples and oranges.  Some of those things we have more control over than others; some have a group agenda, some don't. 

Why were those countries put on the list?  How many terrorist incidents were there worldwide?  How many American's died in 2016 from terrorist attacks.  How many terrorist acts worldwide was there in 2016?  What is the general view of America in those countries?  Are children in those countries taught to hate America?  How safe would an American be walking down the street at night in one of those countries?

A lot of American's are afraid.  The travel ban helps assure people that we are going to do more due diligence.  Maybe we are already doing enough, maybe not.  Our government should look out for it's citizens.  That's it's responsibility.

Anecdotes are also often abused, but we tend to give them considerable weight in forming our opinions.  Every one of my Middle Eastern immigrant friends that I have discussed this with has agreed that the fear is not unreasonable.  I admit, they have helped me justify my fears.
 
I feel so much safer knowing that elderly parents of US citizens were banned from visiting their children with just a stroke of pen. And definitely feel less danger knowing Border Patrol wouldn't allow doctors to return home from vacation. It's also good that Christian Syrian orphans will not be able to get adopted. And I'm so glad students can't return to school because they got stuck somewhere out of the country. It also makes me happy that the Saudis aren't included on the extreme vetting list because we all know none of them has ever had a bad intention.

 
i1 said:
irvinehomeowner said:
I disagree with you about lack of "good" in the travel ban. Our current measures are not enough. I understand you feel that the US should take in refugees but at what cost?
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IHO - you seem like a data-driven person. below is real data from a libertarian group. doesn't it make you think your fears and the idea of this travel ban are misplaced? What logical "good" do you see in it? meanwhile, Congress is removing regulations preventing severely mentally ill people from owning guns.

0: refugees from countries in the travel ban that have killed anyone in terrorist attacks in the U.S.
17: people that have been convicted of attempted terror attacks on US soil in the last ***40 years*** from the 7 countries
0.00003%: chance of dying in an attack by a foreign-born terrorist
9: people killed per year on average by Muslim extremists in the U.S. since 9/11
12,843: people killed per year on average by guns in the U.S.
37,000: deaths per year in the U.S. by traffic accidents
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/30/politics/immigration-stats-by-the-numbers-trnd/
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Is there a site that list stats of refugees who were arrested prior to committing crimes?

Or how many crimes have been prevented since the Obama administration restricted travel from these same 7 countries since March 2011 (which people seem to ignore)?

I could use the same logic and say that we don't need police in Irvine because our crime rate is so low... now that's a better comparison even with some hyperbole.

As for your "gun ban" topic, that's a different fight. I agree guns should be better regulated, but that's in our bill of rights, letting in possibly dangerous refugees is not.
 
Now more than ever, the country needs to follow the wisdom of the late Rodney King and ask ourselves "can't we all just get along?"
 
I wonder if Spicer has an opinion on the meanness of his boss' daily troll tweets?

- Spicer admitted that he found the episode ?funny,? despite believing that Alec Baldwin?s impression of President Donald Trump was ?mean,? according to Extra. ?Alec has gone from funny to mean, and that?s unfortunate,? Spicer said. ?SNL used to be really funny. There?s a streak of meanness now that they?ve crossed over to mean.?
https://www.yahoo.com/celebrity/sean-spicer-reacts-melissa-mccarthy-141927236.html
 
All the hyperbolic talk, all the kicking and screaming, all the "huge "protests and outpouring of support will be for naught. Go ahead, don't like this Supreme Court candidate? Tough luck he will be approved.  Don't like DeVoss or this particular Secretary of State?  Tough toenails they will be approved. Don't like a pipeline. Scream your lungs out snowflakes...it will be built.  This is all theater. As our previous President loved to point out, "elections have consequences." Suck it up and live with them...we had to for the last 8 years.  Now we get to drive. Like him or hate him he is and will deliver on his promises. Protest away, nothing will change.
 
Don't disagree with that, but whether he's able to deliver on promises to repeal ACA and Dodd-Frank, is not at all certain. Large public protests and email/letters to Congress will affect what King Troll is able to destroy in these areas.
 
The fact is the left brought this down on itself.  For the first two years the Obama admin they forced through ACA on a straight party line vote without one repub supporter. Now that the tables have turned they expect civility?  Having exercised the "nuclear option genie"  they get the vapors that it will turned on them?  I don't think this guy really cares about public opinion so he is gonna deliver one sided rule in order to make good on campaign promises.  If you agree with him, its vindication...if you don't, your biggest fear is that he succeeds.
 
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