President Trump

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To all the hysterical people, I realize we are traveling into uncharted waters so a certain level of anxiety is understandable.

I ask that you all take a deep breath and reflect on the fable of The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

You'd be surprised how little about the world and human nature has changed from 2,600 years ago in Ancient Greece to today.
 
Happiness said:
To all the hysterical people, I realize we are traveling into uncharted waters so a certain level of anxiety is understandable.

I ask that you all take a deep breath and reflect on the fable of The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

You'd be surprised how little about the world and human nature has changed from 2,600 years ago in Ancient Greece to today.
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Easy to say unless you happened to be living in Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia or were considered an enemy under any other dictatorship.
 
Happiness said:
To all the hysterical people, I realize we are traveling into uncharted waters so a certain level of anxiety is understandable.

I ask that you all take a deep breath and reflect on the fable of The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

You'd be surprised how little about the world and human nature has changed from 2,600 years ago in Ancient Greece to today.
Click to expand...

When King Troll's deeply insecure self's saber rattling gets us into another prolonged war, I hope it's the Trump enthusiasts' and apologists' kids who are the ones sent overseas to die and be maimed.

This is getting very serious.
 
Loco_local said:
Happiness said:
To all the hysterical people, I realize we are traveling into uncharted waters so a certain level of anxiety is understandable.

I ask that you all take a deep breath and reflect on the fable of The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

You'd be surprised how little about the world and human nature has changed from 2,600 years ago in Ancient Greece to today.
Click to expand...

Easy to say unless you happened to be living in Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia or were considered an enemy under any other dictatorship.
Click to expand...

It is not hyperbolic at this stage, to make these comparisons.
 
Perspective said:
Happiness said:
To all the hysterical people, I realize we are traveling into uncharted waters so a certain level of anxiety is understandable.

I ask that you all take a deep breath and reflect on the fable of The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

You'd be surprised how little about the world and human nature has changed from 2,600 years ago in Ancient Greece to today.
Click to expand...

When King Troll's deeply insecure self's saber rattling gets us into another prolonged war, I hope it's the Trump enthusiasts' and apologists' kids are the ones sent overseas to die and be maimed.

This is getting very serious.
Click to expand...

Give me a break. She couldn't make it 15 feet to her car.
(She lacks the stanima and energy)
 
Perspective is just here to troll.  You are wasting your efforts responding to him/her.  It is not going to go anywhere.

 
spootieho said:
Perspective is just here to troll.  You are wasting your efforts responding to him/her.  It is not going to go anywhere.
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Trolling is typically making inflammatory comments, making provably false statements, using logical fallacies, and especially attacking other commenters personally. Care to share any of these in which I engage?
 
Nah. Perspective just spews out crap. Then when you call It out he/she will just cry ad hominem.
 
Perspective said:
jmoney74 said:
Nah. Perspective just spews out crap. Then when you call It out he/she will just cry ad hominem.
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Again, what's crap about anything I've said?
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Nothing wrong with what you have said .  Keep it coming. 

Honestly one would have more respect for pro trump arguments , if people just admit they are happy supporting a major league scumbag and mentally deranged psycho because they have their own narrow interest in mind -- be it the small business owner who wants less regulation and tax cuts , or the middle aged mom who thinks  less talented immigration means less competition for her average college going son, I can go on and on. 

That is a perfectly rational argument on the face of it - although it may have longer term demerits - "hey its only muslims / mexicans right now doesn't affect me , until  it does and then its too late to do anything about it  , or maybe when the pie itself shrinks due to US lagging in competitiveness over time. 

Problem is when people try and rationalize to feel good about their choice.  It is like buying a car  or a home - once you own it you try and find more and good things about it to justify why you did what you did. 
 
i1 said:
irvinehomeowner said:
And I didn't say "any" activity... trying to prevent terrorists from entering the US is good

Is trying to make America safer good?
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Sounds like if your son found some ants in the kitchen, and decided to try to do a good thing and get rid of them by burning a fire in the kitchen, you would say...son, trying is a good thing. I like the movement and activity, it's ok the house is burning
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You guys are not making comparisons that help your point.

Again, I don't like Trump but I do like action that is addressig a problem the US has.

Now if both of you think the travel and visa measures are the same as burning down your house or nuking Dallas, we can't have a logical discussion.

@Tim:

Again, I agree with you about how despicable Trump is but you are missing my point. You have to apply the same brush to all presidents which you have not.

Would Hillary be a better president? Is there anything about her character you despise?

I say it's noise and in the past because Trump is president and all we can do is move forward. Should we try to impeach him based on those allegations, sure... if they are really true, those girls should speak out, like Monica did.

But that's not addressing the problems that most are having with him now. How would you handle the terrorist isssues? What is your idea of a "perfect" plan?
 
irvinehomeowner said:
i1 said:
irvinehomeowner said:
And I didn't say "any" activity... trying to prevent terrorists from entering the US is good

Is trying to make America safer good?
Click to expand...
Sounds like if your son found some ants in the kitchen, and decided to try to do a good thing and get rid of them by burning a fire in the kitchen, you would say...son, trying is a good thing. I like the movement and activity, it's ok the house is burning
Click to expand...

You guys are not making comparisons that help your point.

Again, I don't like Trump but I do like action that is addressig a problem the US has.

Now if both of you think the travel and visa measures are the same as burning down your house or nuking Dallas, we can't have a logical discussion.
Click to expand...

What exactly IS the "problem the US has" that is being addressed?

Of course we do not think they are the same. We are using hyperbole to make a point. That point is that just because someone takes action to TRY to address something, doesn't make it a good thing to do. I keep asking HOW Trump's travel ban has made anything better. No one has answered, including you. Even conservatives like David Brooks have said that this travel ban does nothing good - that it only causes harm.

And now a conservative federal judge thinks the ban is probably not even legal.


irvinehomeowner said:
@Tim:

Again, I agree with you about how despicable Trump is but you are missing my point. You have to apply the same brush to all presidents which you have not.
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Huh? Why do I have to say anything about other Presidents? I said that Trump is an embarrassment. There are many reasons why. I only listed a couple so as not to drone on.

irvinehomeowner said:
Would Hillary be a better president? Is there anything about her character you despise?
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Yes, she would be. There are things about her I do not like, but she would not be an embarrassment. Please note that Trump won the Republican primary. There were many other Republicans running that would not be an embarrassment.

irvinehomeowner said:
I say it's noise and in the past because Trump is president and all we can do is move forward. Should we try to impeach him based on those allegations, sure... if they are really true, those girls should speak out, like Monica did.
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I get that you want to move forward, but he is still a joke. Only now he is the joke that the USA put in charge. I am embarrassed that the country that thinks of itself as an example to the world actually had millions of people vote for him. I didn't say we should try to impeach him (although he does seem to be breaking the Emoluments Clause). I am embarrassed that the USA elected him. His latest tweet calling Judge Robart a "so-called judge" is embarrassing. It shows how immature Trump is. No President has ever been so disliked so soon. This is his honeymoon period. Things will not get better with him. They will only get worse from here on. He is making enemies of allies.

irvinehomeowner said:
But that's not addressing the problems that most are having with him now. How would you handle the terrorist isssues? What is your idea of a "perfect" plan?
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There is no such thing as a perfect plan. However, nothing in the travel ban needed to happen. Our vetting procedures are fine the way they are. If I could change anything, it would be to let in more refugees. Look at the numbers I posted earlier. We are not doing our part to help those in need.
 
Happiness said:
The allegations regarding the beauty pageant dressing room were first reported by BuzzFeed.  ONE named former contestant and THREE ANONOMOUS former contestants told BuzzFeed that Trump barged into the dressing room and talked to the contestants.  Buzzfeed tried to contact 49 out of the 51 contestants from that year, 34 had no comment, and ELEVEN former contestants who were there when Trump allegedly barged into the dressing room and talked to the contestants have NO recollection of Trump being in the dressing room.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/kendalltag...-them-changing?utm_term=.guZaJK8Bx#.emg9jgVDK
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If you don't want to believe the teens, then we can just stick with the adults that Trump himself bragged about walking in on.


Happiness said:
Remember all of the women who accused Trump of misconduct during the campaign and all dropped their accusations when threatened with litigation?  There are two ways to look at that: (1) their accusations were true but they feared fighting the formidable legal resources of Trump, or (2) they were willing to lie for Hillary but not willing to pay damages or go to jail for her.
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In this case I will go with #1. It is very hard to prove the accusations. Trump is very litigious. Like when he tells contractors that he is not paying for work they did that they can sue him but he will fight it in court until they go broke. What a swell guy.
 
fortune11 said:
Nothing wrong with what you have said .  Keep it coming. 

Honestly one would have more respect for pro trump arguments , if people just admit they are happy supporting a major league scumbag and mentally deranged psycho because they have their own narrow interest in mind -- be it the small business owner who wants less regulation and tax cuts , or the middle aged mom who thinks  less talented immigration means less competition for her average college going son, I can go on and on. 

That is a perfectly rational argument on the face of it - although it may have longer term demerits - "hey its only muslims / mexicans right now doesn't affect me , until  it does and then its too late to do anything about it  , or maybe when the pie itself shrinks due to US lagging in competitiveness over time. 

Problem is when people try and rationalize to feel good about their choice.  It is like buying a car  or a home - once you own it you try and find more and good things about it to justify why you did what you did.
Click to expand...
Perspective was using certain flaming tactics.  Flaming is a type of trolling.  By using those tactics, it becomes clear that we are at Mickey Mouse BS levels and can't have an honest and considerate conversation and that any effort will be futile. 

While I voted against Trump, I do have hope that he does well.  There are some things I do hope he will get done.  In that way, you can apply your argument to me about feeling good about our choice.  I don't hope to for him to fail.  I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.  Yes, a lot of people say they aren't hoping for him to fail, but seems that they really are deep inside.  They can't wait to twist and spin everything he does negatively.  Most of the hate seems to be opportunistic outrage. 

We've been overloaded with dishonesty and insane outrage from Trump's opposition, that it makes it easy to disregard his opposition.  They cried wolf on overload.  We all know what happens with crying wolf.  Now when you bring up a good point, it might get dismissed as more crying wolf.

It's kinda easy to disregard arguments when people give things politically motivated names.  A travel ban with the goal to prevent future terrorist attacks is called a "muslim ban".  When we put up a wall to block "illegal immigrants", they say we are trying to keep out "Mexicans".
 
Drunk driving and domestic violence seem to be the biggest killers in Irvine. I will feel safer when el presidente signs an executive order banning alcohol and people living with family members.
 
I agree w you that the media has been crying wolf for such a long time that when an actual wolf (like trump in this case) shows up large swaths of the population can tune them out .  But there is another deeper problem here - conservative radio host Charlie Sykes gets into it in this excellent article below

Why NoBody Cares The President Is Lying

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/04/opinion/sunday/why-nobody-cares-the-president-is-lying.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0&referer=https://t.co/jfv8j7UG59

A few paragraphs from the article below

"The news media?s spectacular failure to get the election right has made it only easier for many conservatives to ignore anything that happens outside the right?s bubble and for the Trump White House to fabricate facts with little fear of alienating its base.

Unfortunately, that also means that the more the fact-based media tries to debunk the president?s falsehoods, the further it will entrench the battle lines.

During his first week in office, Mr. Trump reiterated the unfounded charge that millions of people had voted illegally. When challenged on the evident falsehood, Sean Spicer, the White House press secretary, seemed to argue that Mr. Trump?s belief that something was true qualified as evidence. The press secretary also declined to answer a straightforward question about the unemployment rate, suggesting that the number will henceforth be whatever the Trump administration wants it to be.

He can do this because members of the Trump administration feel confident that the alternative-reality media will provide air cover, even if they are caught fabricating facts or twisting words (like claiming that the ?ban? on Muslim immigrants wasn?t really a ?ban?). Indeed, they believe they have shifted the paradigm of media coverage, replacing the traditional media with their own. "


 
Labelling Trump King Troll is inflammatory. It's also accurate. He talks like his position is much more powerful than the Constitution allows, and he is the most infamous Twitter troll. Is this even disputable? Would Trump apologists prefer he be labelled the "So Called President"?

Can we end the lie that "the media got the election spectacularly wrong"? The pollsters all forecast results within a margin of error. The results in the Rust Belt were within the margin of error. King Troll had to get a few states to flip a few points within the margin of error. It was unlikely. The media reported this, and now folks are mischaracterizing this.
 
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