President Trump

[tim]

Now that he is President, his horrible behavior will only get worse. He is an embarrassment to the USA.

He has been doing what the people of the United States elected him to do.  NBC is reporting that more Americans support the ban than not. 

It was a minority of the country that elected him. And that still doesn't mean he does not behave horribly. He is still an embarrassment.

He is an embarassment to you and the crybabies who didn't get the person they wanted elected.  You might not agree, but that's how they look and it's why they be taken seriously. 

Again.  NBC is reporting that more Americans support the ban than not.

He should be an embarrassment to all Americans. There is a reason that so many Republicans cannot stand him. That video with Billy Bush is so gross. Not just the talking, but when they use their power to get her to hug them. Ugh.

When Trump brags to Stern about how he gets to go backstage at his beauty pageants when the girls (as young as 15) aren't dressed and no one stops him because he is the owner. How can you not be embarrassed that he is the President? He brags about this kind of thing. He thinks there is nothing wrong with it. Let me repeat that - he thinks there is nothing wrong with it. Nothing wrong with walking into a room where 15 year old girls aren't fully dressed and don't want him to be there. He thinks there is nothing wrong with that. If one of those girls was my daughter, I cannot imagine how mad I would be. But you go ahead and be proud that he is our President.

 

[tim]

And when he says the ban was working out great - just look at the airports?

Are you referring to the protestors?  They are no indicator of anything other than outrage.

The ban was rolled out pretty poorly, that's for sure.  Some people were unfortunately overlooked.  That should hopefully be resolved now. 

So you think there was nothing dishonest in his statement when he says it was great and you say it was rolled out poorly? Um, okay.

Dishonest?  You didn't even answer my question. 

"Great" is a subjective word.  It's an opinion word.  I don't think it was "great".  So because I have a different opinion than him, I should label his opinion dishonest?  Do you see how absurd you are willing to go?

Sorry that I didn't answer your question. I thought it was rhetorical. I was talking about not just the protesters. As I explained, the whole Order was a mess. I thought my longer explanation was more clear than just a yes or no to your question.

Yes, you should label him as dishonest. People who liked the ban, including you, thought it wasn't going well. It is another example of him saying the opposite of the truth.

 

[tim]

Before discussing this 90 day travel pause with anyone, I ask these two questions:

1) Did you protest the Obama / Clinton 6 month immigration pause for Iraqi's back in 2011?

2) Did you protest the "wet foot / dry foot" rule change for Cuba citizens, as well as the 90 or so Cuban's forcibly returned to their homeland right before Obama left office?

If the answer is "no" (more often than not it's... "wut"?) then we have nothing to talk about.  If you aren't aware of or did not raise a ruckus about either of these events, you've forfeited your credibility to complain about what the Rabid Orangutan is doing right now.

Why do these other things affect whether Trump's ban is a good idea? If the other ones were bad, would that make Trump's bad? Please explain the causal relationship here.

 

[sgip]

There isn't a "causal relationship", nor does it say the travel pause is a good or a bad thing. That said, a 5 hour wait at an airport, or a return flight by a Green Card holder in the grand scheme of things isn't as punishing as sending 90 Cubans back to a dictator who has every opportunity to "disappear" some of the dissidents. On that I hope we can agree.

So many pixels are being slaughtered with people yelling and screaming about things they really don't know about. The press said "Muslim Ban" then found out the 7 countries listed were first proposed by Obama. Senator Schumer began weeping at these travel issues, not realizing he proposed similar things on Twitter 5 years ago, and earlier applauded President Clinton who advocated what our current President is now implementing. My, how surprising. A politician with a second face. (said no one)

Not enough people pay attention to the meat of the matters before us, preferring to grab the closest fire hose and turn it up to 11. If that's your kind of discussion (generally speaking, not specific to you....) then answer my two questions first. It tends to limit the conversation to those in the know.

In the mean time, how about a little TI love for these few Go Fund Me's:

https://www.gofundme.com/qismat

https://www.gofundme.com/help-newly-arrived-iraqi-refugees

and others everyone might deem appropriate to help.

My .02c

 

[tim]

...because conservatism is based on the founding principles of Christianity.

Ha ha ha. That is funny. How's that?

I am not agreeing everything Trump said or did. However, it is a swamp in D.C. created by Obama. I am glad it is being drained.

Okay, wait, what? You think the swamp was created by Obama? And you think Trump is draining it? How is he draining it? By having an administration full of billionaires and white nationalists? Here is the summary paragraph from the Conservative Review "It's simply too early to tell whether Trump's Cabinet truly represents a draining of the swamp. But at the very least the early returns are mixed at best, and at worst provide some evidence for skepticism. Despite Trump's 'more cowbell' persona, maybe America really just elected 'high energy Jeb' when it's all said and done."

Search this "Nancy Pelosi caught on a hot mic". It's ridiculous.

Is that where she keeps asking if the sound is on? OMG, that was hilarious. Or do you mean when she told Andre Carson to tell people that he is a Muslim (which he is)? Not sure what is funny about that.

 

[tim]

Not enough people pay attention to the meat of the matters before us, preferring to grab the closest fire hose and turn it up to 11. If that's your kind of discussion (generally speaking, not specific to you....) then answer my two questions first. It tends to limit the conversation to those in the know.

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense.

I'm still trying to determine what the EO did that made it worth doing.

 

[Happiness]

Great article on the predicament we are in right now by David Frum, former speechwriter for Bush 43.
https://www.theatlantic.com/press-r...tlantics-march-cover-story-online-now/515115/

I LOVE IT: Neocons and Liberals are now ALLIES!

 

[tim]

It couldn't be terrorism since the ban didn't include countries that terrorists came from when attacking in the US.

More groupthink talking points... 

Which group is it that? And why do you want to be so dismissive? And "groupthink" can be just as easily applied to what you say.

Had I been dismissive, I wouldn't have continued my response and clarified.  And yes, I've caught you in the past using groupthink talking points, so I think it's fair to start pointing them out.  I may be harsher on you because you sound more eloquent than others.

Oh sure, flatter me. I guess I would like to know what these groupthink talking points are? And which group it is. I try hard to think for myself. You aren't actually "pointing them out" when you use that term without being specific. If you use it in this vague, general way then it just seems insulting.

Will more vetting make us safer?  Maybe.  Will more vetting make us feel safer?  Yes.

Some of the President's job is to educate people. If people feel scared for no good reason, the President should tell people they are safe, not issue EO's that aren't needed. But Trump will never do that. He has spent so much time making people more scared than they were. He wants people to be scared so he can convince them that he is the one who can save them. Really HE is the one we should be scared of.

Countries that were a terror threat in 2001 might not be considered a terror threat today.  That was 16 years ago and those countries on the list may be different than they were in 2001.  What happened in 2001, though, taught us that we should be more diligent about these things in the future. 

And San Bernadino? And Miami?

Since Trump doesn't release his financial information, we will never know if this list of countries was specifically used to avoid hurting his financial interests. And perhaps his business interests in the countries that are not on the list will benefit due to the ban hurting the countries that are on the list.

Yes most Americans are afraid of refugees from these countries.  The fear may be unreasonable.  The fear may not be rational.  It's what the people want.  Americans want more vetting of people from those regions and I don't think more vetting is unreasonable. 

...If we can do more vetting, I am all for it. 

You say more vetting, but what more needs to be done? How do you know that we don't already do enough?

Everything about this Order was poorly done. It is legally unclear. Even the administration wasn't sure about whom it should apply to. Parts have already been put on hold by
courts. It has caused protests in this country. It makes us more disliked by other countries. This Order shows the incompetence of the administration.

I agree that this order was poorly done and shows incompetence and sloppiness.  It should have been more well thought out.

I do think a lot of of the countries that are whining should mind their own business.  They can prioritize those refugees, if it's an issue.

I'm not completely against all aspects of the order, though.

Many other countries already DO take in tons of refugees. The USA takes in a small share compared to our size, population, and wealth. The numbers I found on Wikipedia were as of mid-2015.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_refugee_population
When looking at just the ratio of refugees to population, the USA is 75th. There are 196 countries. I'm not sure if any metric will show the USA in the top 10 for accepting refugees. It makes me sad that we are not more welcoming to those in need. We do a lot, for sure. But we could do so much more. Most of the groups in the USA that help resettle refugees here are religious organizations. Most of them are not happy with this EO.https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...hristians-trump-travel-ban-christian-refugees

 

[fortune11]

Great article on the predicament we are in right now by David Frum, former speechwriter for Bush 43.
https://www.theatlantic.com/press-r...tlantics-march-cover-story-online-now/515115/

I LOVE IT: Neocons and Liberals are now ALLIES!

that right there is the problem.  have you even read the full article ?

trump fans are effectively part of a cult and anyone who shines any objective light on whats going on has to be labeled as a liberal or neocon.

what ends up happening is that instead of the strongman populist representing the people who elected him , the hardcore supporters end up following the leader wherever he takes them.  Tomorrow if trump ended up saying that globalization was good for the country it won't take long for trump fans to switch their beliefs to match.

there are those voters who truly don't know any better , who have not lived in a cosmopolitan society and understandably harbor many of these prejudices

but what to make of the comfortable , rich top 20% ers (as most who live in irvine are) who are fans EVEN NOW knowing what they know about him.  I hope those tax cuts people are drooling over are worth it at the cost of whats happening to this country's moral fibre.  If a sight of a 5y old US citizen girl in handcuffs being detained at customs cannot move you , nothing else will, and there is much more to come.

 

[Happiness]

what ends up happening is that instead of the strongman populist representing the people who elected him , the hardcore supporters end up following the leader wherever he takes them.  Tomorrow if trump ended up saying that globalization was good for the country it won't take long for trump fans to switch their beliefs to match.

So you think if Trump suddenly turns internationalist, pushes for TPP ratification, endorses NAFTA, pushes for regime change in Syria, Russia, etc. that all of the people who voted for Trump because he was against those things will miraculously change their views?

 

[Happiness]

... have you even read the full article ?

there are those voters who truly don't know any better , who have not lived in a cosmopolitan society and understandably harbor many of these prejudices

Liberal Elitism At Its Finest! 

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Is Trump any more a womanizer than Bill?

Wasn't part of the reason why women couldn't really get behind HRC was because of that?

I don't really like Donald's character either... however at this point, it's been decided so all that past stuff is noise.

Was the ban executed poorly, sure... but he's doing something. As General Patton said:

"A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week."

I don't like Trump, and may not agree with the methods... but I like the activity... movement is life... perfection is procrastination.

 

[riznick]

what ends up happening is that instead of the strongman populist representing the people who elected him , the hardcore supporters end up following the leader wherever he takes them.  Tomorrow if trump ended up saying that globalization was good for the country it won't take long for trump fans to switch their beliefs to match.

So you think if Trump suddenly turns internationalist, pushes for TPP ratification, endorses NAFTA, pushes for regime change in Syria, Russia, etc. that all of the people who voted for Trump because he was against those things will miraculously change their views?

I'd say it is very probable.  You can see that behavior with most political sheeple and both sides are full of them.

 

[fortune11]

... have you even read the full article ?

there are those voters who truly don't know any better , who have not lived in a cosmopolitan society and understandably harbor many of these prejudices

Liberal Elitism At Its Finest!

Well , 2x as many voted against trump as for him in CA , so pretty big group of elitists out there in our state

If it helps ,  I am actually a Romney 2012 voter and so are many of my friends who don't like what's going on right now .

Ultimately people shouting labels is a defense mechanism against their own insecurities and no productive discussion can be had in that scenario

I will end w this -- if you live in CA (as most people on this board are) , more likely than not you owe your livelihood and benefits to the successful immigration of the best talent in the world to your state over many decades. That's about to change .  unfortunately the repurcussions will be most felt by trump supporters .

 

[Happiness]

Is Trump any more a womanizer than Bill?

Wasn't part of the reason why women couldn't really get behind HRC was because of that?

I don't really like Donald's character either... however at this point, it's been decided so all that past stuff is noise.

Was the ban executed poorly, sure... but he's doing something. As General Patton said:

"A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week."

I don't like Trump, and may not agree with the methods... but I like the activity... movement is life... perfection is procrastination.

The best Patton quote is "you don't win a war by dying for your country, you win by making the other bastard die for his country."
This is the quote I thought of when Trump asked why McCain is considered a war hero just because he got captured by the enemy and the HRC campaign went nuts and claimed Trump was "against veterans."

 

[Perspective]

Does the King of Trolls understand it's the state the Constitution restricts from limiting free speech? Rhetorical question. We know the answer.
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...reat-could-hit-prestigious-energy-lab-funding

I'm certain the King of Trolls would vomit on Twitter similar objections and threats if students at the University of Mississippi prevented a radical Islamic speaker, right?

 

[jmoney74]

I'd like to see more peaceful protests.  Love to see people stand up against people like that but leave the demolition team at home.

 

[Movingup]

From the President's speech at National Prayer breakfast.

"I tell you that from somebody that has had material success and knows tremendous numbers of people with great material success, the most material success. Many of those people are very, very miserable, unhappy people.
And I know a lot of people without that, but they have great families. They have great faith; they don't have money, at least, not nearly to the extent. And they're happy. Those, to me, are the successful people, I have to tell you."

 

[Perspective]

From the President's speech at National Prayer breakfast.

"I tell you that from somebody that has had material success and knows tremendous numbers of people with great material success, the most material success. Many of those people are very, very miserable, unhappy people.
And I know a lot of people without that, but they have great families. They have great faith; they don't have money, at least, not nearly to the extent. And they're happy. Those, to me, are the successful people, I have to tell you."

Share the part where he attacks one of his many enemies at a prayer breakfast.

 

[Movingup]

From the President's speech at National Prayer breakfast.

"I tell you that from somebody that has had material success and knows tremendous numbers of people with great material success, the most material success. Many of those people are very, very miserable, unhappy people.
And I know a lot of people without that, but they have great families. They have great faith; they don't have money, at least, not nearly to the extent. And they're happy. Those, to me, are the successful people, I have to tell you."

Share the part where he attacks one of his many enemies at a prayer breakfast.

I know you love talking points and wants him to fail. Pretty obvious. I don't know why in a million years anyone who loves the country wants our President to fail. We all heard many negative things that he said, that's old news. This is a nice, heart-warming change.