spootieho said:
tim said:
It couldn't be terrorism since the ban didn't include countries that terrorists came from when attacking in the US.
More groupthink talking points...
Which group is it that? And why do you want to be so dismissive? And "groupthink" can be just as easily applied to what you say.
spootieho said:
To claim "it couldn't be terrorism" with your reasoning is simply ridiculous logical fallacy. IMO, it's most certainly a fear of terrorism. You can argue that it might not be well thought out. You can argue that it might not be rational. You can argue that it might not be reasonable. It is, however, about terrorism. People are afraid of the terrorists and that's why we are here.
The list from an official terror list curated by the previous administration. Don't like the list, well, you know who to blame.
There's a lot of terror going on in the world that doesn't make it to our news and/or country. While the # of terrorist attacks in the US has been relatively low, there was well over 11,000 terrorist attacks worldwide in 2015. People are getting beheaded daily in those countries. They are constantly figuring out new ways to kill people. Perhaps everyone needs to see all the pictures and videos get get a sense of what we are dealing with. It's fucking scary. In may of those countries, a good amount of people learn to hate the US. I'm sure there's a good reason that the previous administration put those countries on a terror risk list.
I wouldn't be surprised to see more countries added to the list for the temporary ban. The ban will probably be over for some of those countries in a few months if/when they have come up with a better vetting process.
Okay, I will be more clear. I agree that this does come from a fear of terrorism. I think Trump trumped up this fear and then made this Executive Order to address the fear. Now his followers think he has done something to make them safe. They are no safer now. They weren't in danger before. The odds of you getting killed by a terrorist in this country are vanishingly small.
How does the Executive Order actually help prevent terrorist attacks here? We ALREADY do a ton of vetting. What more will be done? They speak of the 9/11 and San Bernadino attacks as reasons for this ban. Yet it would have done nothing to prevent those. So why do it? No one should feel safer from this.
Everything about this Order was poorly done. It is legally unclear. Even the administration wasn't sure about whom it should apply to. Parts have already been put on hold by courts. It has caused protests in this country. It makes us more disliked by other countries. This Order shows the incompetence of the administration.
Is it just coincidence that none of the Muslim-majority countries that Trump does business with (as far as we know) are on the list? Will any of them be ones that get added?
For the rest of my reply to you, please note that the things I listed in my paragraph of questions were about how much Trump lies. It was in reply to Movingup saying that liberals are relentless in making things up.
spootieho said:
tim said:
And what about those 3 million fraudulent votes?
Why are you so concerned about that?
Are you serious?!? Why am I concerned about our President saying he lost the popular vote due to 3 million illegal votes? You are actually asking that? Why isn't EVERYONE concerned? What are the possibilities here?
1. Trump said this and believes it, even though it isn't true. We have a President that believes ridiculous conspiracies! What other insane ideas does he believe? It took him until November of last year to finally stop his crazy Obama birther talk. Will he cancel NASA since they faked the whole "man on the moon" thing? Will he send Tom Hanks to Vatican City?
2. Trump said this and doesn't believe it. We have a President that will lie even when everyone knows he is lying. This is not a small matter to lie about. There was no need to lie about it. How can we trust anything he says? Well, of course we cannot. He can't go more than 5 minutes without lying.
3. There actually were 3 million illegal votes. And somehow, they ALL went to Clinton. Holy crap! If this is true, this a problem bigger than anything our democracy has faced before. 3 MILLION votes!! We have TWENTY states with fewer people than that! How many states have fewer voters than that? If this is a true thing, we should all be terrified.
spootieho said:
tim said:
And what about him releasing his tax returns like he promised to do back in Feb 2015?
Because people can and will dishonestly attack every single detail on those tax returns. I can't believe for one second that his opposition wants to see the returns for anything other than to attack him. His opposition has been lying about him, over-exaggerating everything about him, twisting everything he does negatively. If they want us to believe that they have good intentions, well that ship has sailed. It's all about shitflinging at this point.
He should release his tax returns because, now try to follow...because HE SAID HE WOULD. I know, crazy, huh? That is reason enough.
If you need another reason, and I am pretty sure that you do (because Trump supporters are really good at excusing anything he says that is inconvenient), he needs to release his finances because otherwise we have no way to tell if any decision he makes is affected by his own financial interest. Since his finances are a black box, we cannot rule anything out. That is why previous Presidents have been transparent in this way. That is why those getting cabinet positions are legally required to disclose financial info. This is not hard to understand. I think you understand it, but you just don't want to believe it.
Of course, he should also divest himself from the companies he owns. He won't. He will make many decisions during his time in office that make him much, much richer. Some of those decisions will be bad for the USA.
spootieho said:
tim said:
And when he says the ban was working out great - just look at the airports?
Are you referring to the protestors? They are no indicator of anything other than outrage.
The ban was rolled out pretty poorly, that's for sure. Some people were unfortunately overlooked. That should hopefully be resolved now.
So you think there was nothing dishonest in his statement when he says it was great and you say it was rolled out poorly? Um, okay.
spootieho said:
tim said:
Now that he is President, his horrible behavior will only get worse. He is an embarrassment to the USA.
He has been doing what the people of the United States elected him to do. NBC is reporting that more Americans support the ban than not.
It was a minority of the country that elected him. And that still doesn't mean he does not behave horribly. He is still an embarrassment.
