Midterm Elections

[eyephone]

Welcome back. Come up with some original content.

 

[inv0ke-epipen]

Any system is going to have abuse, that doesn't mean we should end the system for those who rely on it and use it as designed.

We should be careful not to deride those poor and downtrodden that rely on the system to survive or get back on their feet. They are often unfairly lumped in with the abusers.

We should seek reform when the abuse rate meets an unacceptable threshold. Of course setting that threshold and exacting reform is easier said then done. We should also ensure the system is incentivized correctly. Right now the marginal tax rate of a raise or getting a job when your on welfare is ridiculous. Universal basic income seems like a much better model when we are ready to support it.

Remember, even if you hate poor people, and think their situation is entirely their own fault, a social safety net is still a win because it keeps them out of your way. I'd rather my tax dollars go to supporting the rent of a junkie than to cleanup and arrests on the riverbed, or worse having them breaking into my home. On the plus side, maybe you help a few honest folks get on their feet (of course hypothetical since an honest poor person has never existed).

You don't have to be a bleeding heart liberal to understand the need for a social safety net and that abuse of it is inevitable. You can't just point at abuse and say the system as a whole is bad, you have to demonstrate that the negatives of the abuse outweigh the positives of the system. Also, if you do happen to have  a bleeding heart (curse the damn things, always getting in the way) , the moral demand to help people heavily weighs that equation in favor of the system.

 

[inv0ke-epipen]

I work every election as a volunteer for the Registrar.  Few know the ballet that goes on every election and the stunning scope and complexity of the bureaucracy that counts every vote.  It is really amazing and I suggest you volunteer some time to find out.  I assure you extreme precaution is taken to make sure every voter has the opportunity and every vote is counted.  I have never understood the argument against showing ID.  If anything that is the weak point for voter fraud to take place and the arguments against it are tepid at best.

Because I live in the real world and in a country where people of power have placed hurdles and roadblocks to prevent people from voting.  Voter ID seeks to resolve a problem that does not exist while creating extra hurdles/burdens for people to exercise one of the most fundamental rights one has as a citizen. 
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/why-voter-id-laws-arent-really-about-fraud/

It?s all too easy. This guy told a poll worker he was Eric Holder and the guy was willing to give him the then atttorney generals ballot.  I tried this at my polling place bc I knew my neighbors name and address, guy said ?no problem. ? Easy to stuff a ballot box with readily available lists of names and addresses.

Voter ID activist posing as Eric Holder OK'd at D.C. primary polls

A man from James O?Keefe?s organization, Project Veritas, entered a precinct in the Spring Valley neighborhood of Northwest on Tuesday and suggests to a poll worker that he was ?Eric Holder,?

In Mr. O?Keefe?s video, the ?voter? tells the pollworker he forgot his ID.

?You don?t need it, it?s all right,? the pollworker replies.

?As long as you?re in here you?re on our list ? and that?s who you say you are, you?re OK,? he adds.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/9/voter-id-activist-posing-eric-holder-votes-dc-prim/

A funny anecdote for sure, but doesn't really debunk @IrvineCommuter's claim that Voter fraud is not prevalent enough to be an issue worth addressing.

 

[inv0ke-epipen]

Interesting article.

I think the bigger issue there is that getting an ID is a burden for some folks. If someone really can't spare 25 bucks to get an ID, they need to be helped out. 

That needs to be improved. I see no fundamental issue with requiring an ID at the polls, though do recognize that the underlying motivations for doing so are not pure.

It's a problem that doesn't exist...why look for a solution?  Especially one that is going to prevent people from voting. 

It's not just a burden...it's an unnecessary hurdle.  If I decided that I wanted to vote today...an expired driver's license shouldn't stop me.  What if the election rolls have my name wrong or my ID doesn't match the rolls?  There are a million what-ifs that don't need to exist just to prevent a hypothetical problem.

I agree wholeheartedly on your first point. I don't support a VoterID enactment for that reason, it solves no real problem. It could be argued it is solving a  potential future problem? Of course, like you, I doubt it's staunch supporters are in the business of solving potential future problems, otherwise we would be taking more decisive action on carbon emissions 

However, I also would not oppose VoterID enactment. It is a hurdle, but I don't  think it is an undue hurdle. I strongly believe every citizen should have a means to authenticate themselves, and asking for authentication for something like a vote is not unreasonable. If people can't get ID to authenticate themselves, well then we need to solve that problem.

I also believe we should make things easy, but it feels like people want to take that even further to make things idiot-proof. Make it available, make it free, make it accessible, make it fast, make it easy. Doesn't mean you don't have do some planning or preparation to vote, like most things in life.

 

[fortune11]

Any system is going to have abuse, that doesn't mean we should end the system for those who rely on it and use it as designed.

We should be careful not to deride those poor and downtrodden that rely on the system to survive or get back on their feet. They are often unfairly lumped in with the abusers.

We should seek reform when the abuse rate meets an unacceptable threshold. Of course setting that threshold and exacting reform is easier said then done. We should also ensure the system is incentivized correctly. Right now the marginal tax rate of a raise or getting a job when your on welfare is ridiculous. Universal basic income seems like a much better model when we are ready to support it.

Remember, even if you hate poor people, and think their situation is entirely their own fault, a social safety net is still a win because it keeps them out of your way. I'd rather my tax dollars go to supporting the rent of a junkie than to cleanup and arrests on the riverbed, or worse having them breaking into my home. On the plus side, maybe you help a few honest folks get on their feet (of course hypothetical since an honest poor person has never existed).

You don't have to be a bleeding heart liberal to understand the need for a social safety net and that abuse of it is inevitable. You can't just point at abuse and say the system as a whole is bad, you have to demonstrate that the negatives of the abuse outweigh the positives of the system. Also, if you do happen to have  a bleeding heart (curse the damn things, always getting in the way) , the moral demand to help people heavily weighs that equation in favor of the system.

Very well said

The tax dollars wasted on white collar and high end fraud and abuse are magnitudes higher

But because those people are generally rich and sophisticated and white and live amongst us and are a part of ?polite company ? , we care a lot less as opposed to maligning the ?lazy? poor

 

[StarmanMBA]

The tax dollars wasted on white collar and high end fraud and abuse are magnitudes higher

Please cite references for your claim of "magnitudes higher." Social spending is the number one cost item on federal and state budgets.

 

[fortune11]

The tax dollars wasted on white collar and high end fraud and abuse are magnitudes higher

Please cite references for your claim of "magnitudes higher." Social spending is the number one cost item on federal and state budgets.

Duh ... anyone heard of the great financial crisis ?  Offshore tax havens that were found illegal ? Panama papers ?

How much Medicare fraud is there by poor people ? And don?t include the hospitals who scam the government , sincerely they fall under ?rich people ? category

I don?t mean to engage you any further since you are hell bent on turning this forum into your personal pet project of a hate group , judging by your others thread .

 

[qwerty]

Starman is a moron.

Starman - go fuck yourself again.

 

[fortune11]

And here is my ?double? thank you to QWERTY

Now go and showcase that in your signature again

 

[Happiness]

Interesting article.

I think the bigger issue there is that getting an ID is a burden for some folks. If someone really can't spare 25 bucks to get an ID, they need to be helped out. 

That needs to be improved. I see no fundamental issue with requiring an ID at the polls, though do recognize that the underlying motivations for doing so are not pure.

It's a problem that doesn't exist...why look for a solution?  Especially one that is going to prevent people from voting. 

It's not just a burden...it's an unnecessary hurdle.  If I decided that I wanted to vote today...an expired driver's license shouldn't stop me.  What if the election rolls have my name wrong or my ID doesn't match the rolls?  There are a million what-ifs that don't need to exist just to prevent a hypothetical problem.

I agree wholeheartedly on your first point. I don't support a VoterID enactment for that reason, it solves no real problem. It could be argued it is solving a  potential future problem? Of course, like you, I doubt it's staunch supporters are in the business of solving potential future problems, otherwise we would be taking more decisive action on carbon emissions 

However, I also would not oppose VoterID enactment. It is a hurdle, but I don't  think it is an undue hurdle. I strongly believe every citizen should have a means to authenticate themselves, and asking for authentication for something like a vote is not unreasonable. If people can't get ID to authenticate themselves, well then we need to solve that problem.

I also believe we should make things easy, but it feels like people want to take that even further to make things idiot-proof. Make it available, make it free, make it accessible, make it fast, make it easy. Doesn't mean you don't have do some planning or preparation to vote, like most things in life.

It all depends on how your internal compass is oriented. Some feel it is best to kill ten innocent people than to risk letting one guilty person get away. Some feel it is best to let ten guilty get away rather than risk killing one innocent person. And unless you are hopelessly arrogant in believing your personal view is objectively correct, there is no point arguing because there is no right answer.

 

[Happiness]

And here is my ?double? thank you to QWERTY

Now go and showcase that in your signature again

Well, if starman does add you to his signature, you can add this to yours:

"Proud member of starman VIP club since 6-28-2018"

 

[morekaos]

Your guys are in trouble if this becomes the norm.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez defeats fourth-ranking House Democrat Joe Crowley in massive upset

Activist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez defeated powerful House Democrat Joe Crowley in a stunning primary election upset Tuesday, according to the Associated Press.
The 28-year-old's decisive victory over the fourth-ranking House Democrat in New York's 14th District holds potentially huge implications for the future of the party. Crowley, who has served in Congress for nearly two decades, had possible ambitions to challenge Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi for House speaker if Democrats were to take a House majority in November's midterm elections.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/26/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-beats-high-ranking-house-democrat-joe-crowley.html

"what will beat trump???"

"i know, let's go even further to the left!"

Yes keep on copying and Pasting and high fiving each other  ? election is still months away , my high school friends : )

That being said , she is still rather ok  compared to the other extreme ? like that child rapist republican favorite , Roy Moore

She is rather OK?  Is this the hope of the Dem party?  They sure are treating her like the great brown hope.  This chick was a waiter a year ago and she has slain the dragon.  She wants to lead a communist revolution and be President now...don't cry for me Argentina.

Ocasio-Cortez wants to be president, mom says

Insurgent Democrat Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wants to take her budding political career all the way to The White House, her mother told The Post on Wednesday.

?Her aspiration is to be the president,? Blanca Ocasio-Cortez, 55, said at the candidate?s childhood home in the Bronx.

https://nypost.com/2018/06/27/ocasio-cortez-wants-to-be-president-mom-says/
https://youtu.be/zr9FjAJFim8

 

[fortune11]

And here is my ?double? thank you to QWERTY

Now go and showcase that in your signature again

Well, if starman does add you to his signature, you can add this to yours:

"Proud member of starman VIP club since 6-28-2018"

We are gushing with with joy and cheer again now , aren't we  ?  You must be so excited living in PRC : )

 

[fortune11]

Yeah ..  you know sort of ... what can I say if standards are a bit higher on the other side .... perhaps  a waitress can make the cut over an old fogey child rapist ?  or a neo nazi ?

 

[morekaos]

Like the Rock the vote youth, you can have the idealistic communist voters too....have at it.

 

[eyephone]

Like the Rock the vote youth, you can have the idealistic communist voters too....have at it.

So what affiliation would best describe a person that wants to take away due process?

 

[morekaos]

Winning

 

[Kings]

Interesting article.

I think the bigger issue there is that getting an ID is a burden for some folks. If someone really can't spare 25 bucks to get an ID, they need to be helped out. 

That needs to be improved. I see no fundamental issue with requiring an ID at the polls, though do recognize that the underlying motivations for doing so are not pure.

It's a problem that doesn't exist...why look for a solution?  Especially one that is going to prevent people from voting. 

It's not just a burden...it's an unnecessary hurdle.  If I decided that I wanted to vote today...an expired driver's license shouldn't stop me.  What if the election rolls have my name wrong or my ID doesn't match the rolls?  There are a million what-ifs that don't need to exist just to prevent a hypothetical problem.

I agree wholeheartedly on your first point. I don't support a VoterID enactment for that reason, it solves no real problem. It could be argued it is solving a  potential future problem? Of course, like you, I doubt it's staunch supporters are in the business of solving potential future problems, otherwise we would be taking more decisive action on carbon emissions 

However, I also would not oppose VoterID enactment. It is a hurdle, but I don't  think it is an undue hurdle. I strongly believe every citizen should have a means to authenticate themselves, and asking for authentication for something like a vote is not unreasonable. If people can't get ID to authenticate themselves, well then we need to solve that problem.

I also believe we should make things easy, but it feels like people want to take that even further to make things idiot-proof. Make it available, make it free, make it accessible, make it fast, make it easy. Doesn't mean you don't have do some planning or preparation to vote, like most things in life.

It all depends on how your internal compass is oriented. Some feel it is best to kill ten innocent people than to risk letting one guilty person get away. Some feel it is best to let ten guilty get away rather than risk killing one innocent person. And unless you are hopelessly arrogant in believing your personal view is objectively correct, there is no point arguing because there is no right answer.

was thanos right?

 

[eyephone]

Winning

You have to make a smart remark. Because you can?t answer the question.

It?s called not following the US Constitution. The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution each contain a due process clause.

 

[morekaos]

I thought it was funny. Has anything been enacted that has taken away due process or is this simply an accusation that some one wants to do it?...very different things.