Midterm Elections

[Kings]

i give grandmother ginsburg a year, tops

LOL...Notorious RBG.
https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/ruth-bader-ginsburgs-trainer-shows-work-supreme-court-50549350

LOL i don't believe she can legitimately do any one of those workouts

 

[qwerty]

I took a high paying job from a white person

White people hate people like me

Fixed that.

I took a hot Asian woman from a white person

White people hate people like me

I had that one covered 10 years ago

 

[eyephone]

I took a high paying job from a white person

White people hate people like me

Fixed that.

I took a hot Asian woman from a white person

White people hate people like me

Happy can?t explain the Trump platform blaiming Latinos for everything and anything. So he lightly jokes around about Qwerty?s wife.

 

[inv0ke-epipen]

I?ve been saying for years, give America what it wants. Kick out all the illegals. Give everyone a year and then they will be begging to let them back in.

america wants a class of people that is paid under the table and below minimum wage, so i agree with you on that.

Yeah but that is not good enough for a lot of americans. Because when the cheap labor gets sick and they go to the ER they now become freeloaders, a drain on the system.

How the hell does anyone expect them to afford medical insurance when they get below minimum wage.

There's a solution to that, one that provides an objectively better (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0910064) measure of care and is working wonderfully in other first world western countries.

Unfortunately it has 'socialized' in the title, so it will cause too much triggering to implement properly. Also don't forget, it has longer wait times in some countries, so we should only focus on that and ignore all the other metrics of care.

Let's not kid ourselves about why people are up in arms about "immigration"  it's not economics..it's racial. First World Countries have a labor shortage problem that are being filled by third-world immigrants....historically the willingness to accept immigrants us what has made the US great but now white people feel threatened.  It's as simple as that.

I wouldn't say sentiments were that much different historically, same pushback happened with the Irish and other European immigrants.

People definitely feel threatened. I don't think you distill that down to just racism, though it is certainly in the mix.

I think we need to have an understanding of the role of nations and benefits/downsides of semi-permeable borders  before a good discussion about current immigration policies is really possible. Seems like both sides of the immigration argument go into it with different axioms, and so discussions go nowhere.

Historically it was a racist issue as well...just more nationalistic than just race.  There is no economic argument to have had otherwise.

Racism is a part of it, but there is certainly other factors, and not everyone that wants hardline immigration enforcement is a racist. A lot of people just hate the poor. That's why we have nations right? So we can enjoy our riches and keep the poor shmucks in the third world away.

There is a lot of people that just want immigrants to play by the rules and come in legally. No-one wants to live in a community where people are hitting your car, and running because they don't have insurance, living 6 people to a 2 bedroom apartment and taking up all the parking because they are working under the table below minimum wage. Really don't want these third world degenerates causing us first world problems.

It's kind of a jerk viewpoint, if you can tell by my tongue in cheek,  but potentially a valid one. What if we are self-centered and competitive in nature? Is it morally wrong to embrace that?  Why should we help the poor and suffering third world when they should be expected to develop by their own volition?


You're basically writing off the entire idealogy of Political Realism in international relations as racist. There a lot more thought put into Political Realism than race. Going to take a lot more than "you are racist" to convince people to change their minds about it.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/realism-intl-relations/



 

 

[qwerty]

A true competitor would compete against all challengers. This is more like not wanting to compete. I think everything should be merit based. If the Ivy?s become full of Asians so be it. They work harder they should get in. But Americans are a bunch of pussies who can?t handle the situation when things are being taken away from them by foreigners.

The US took parts of Mexico away from us, we are taking back!!

While we are at it, we are taking the World Cup!

 

[inv0ke-epipen]

They would if the goal was to play fair. What if the goal is just to win?

Better way to do that is rig the system in your favor. Establish a dominant hegemonic world power, and bully smaller nations to your whims.

Then, build the the deathstar

 

[fortune11]

I think we are all aware that Fascism happens gradually, crab in boiling pot, first they came for my neighbor then the came for me, etc.

We should be cognizant of it, but not alarmist about it. The U.S. is in a significantly different situation than the Philippines. An interesting anecdote but hardly applicable.

I'd remind you we've done much worse to immigrant citizens than stripping them of due process, as the thousands of Japanese-Americans in internment camps would attest, but that did not lead to us becoming Fascist.

We should focus on the bad things being done without blowing it up to be about the hypothetical fall of democracy. That kind of fear mongering is going to be dismissed as alarmist by most folks, leading to a dismissal of what is being done to the immigrants.

Again, we should be cognizant of threats to democracy, but not alarmist about them. IMO of course.

Another problem with Fascism, it is a totally loaded word, and one that is interpreted by people wildly differently. Seen conversations degrade to people just calling each other fascist, ends up pretty useless.

Yes but there is a big difference  -- one side has all the power right now and the other one is helpless since all the branches of govt, including Supreme Court are under Trump's thumb.

The civility conversations are centered among people who are at the top of the food  chain (like people on this forum) .  they are not the ones being locked up in cages, abused by racists or shot at by the police. 

The right?s revulsion against a black president targeted by birther conspiracy theories is not the same as the left?s revulsion against a racist president who spread birther conspiracy theories.

Faced with the relentless degradation of the Trump presidency, liberals have not taken to marching around in public with assault weapons and threatening civil war.

The problem with sitting idly while fascists use the levers of democracy to actually upend that democracy --  how do you get it back ?

This is why it is very instructive to look at the example of Philippines.  Dont think it cannot happen here when 25% of the population lives in their own information bubble believing conspiracy theories, many of whom are armed to the teeth with millions of military grade weapons and easily bendable law enforcement like we are seeing now with ICE and Border Patrol.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Racism is a part of it, but there is certainly other factors, and not everyone that wants hardline immigration enforcement is a racist. A lot of people just hate the poor. That's why we have nations right? So we can enjoy our riches and keep the poor shmucks in the third world away.

There is a lot of people that just want immigrants to play by the rules and come in legally. No-one wants to live in a community where people are hitting your car, and running because they don't have insurance, living 6 people to a 2 bedroom apartment and taking up all the parking because they are working under the table below minimum wage. Really don't want these third world degenerates causing us first world problems.

It's kind of a jerk viewpoint, if you can tell by my tongue in cheek,  but potentially a valid one. What if we are self-centered and competitive in nature? Is it morally wrong to embrace that?  Why should we help the poor and suffering third world when they should be expected to develop by their own volition?

You're basically writing off the entire idealogy of Political Realism in international relations as racist. There a lot more thought put into Political Realism than race. Going to take a lot more than "you are racist" to convince people to change their minds about it.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/realism-intl-relations/

Because accepting immigrants from other country have been proven economically and historically to help the country as a whole?  Where are the calls to stop illegal immigrants coming from...what are the race of those people?  How are they actually impacted by illegal immigration?   

Poor people are not the ones who voted for Trump...it was older middle class white males (mostly) who couldn't accept the realities of globalization and need something/someone to blame.  If we are competitive by nature, we should be all for people coming into this country because we should be able to to beat them anyways. 

 

[fortune11]

I can bet you a detached condo  -- that if these crying babies being separated from their mothers and randomly being sent across the country to strangers were white, blonde haired and blue eyed, we would not be having this crisis or conversation ...

 

[inv0ke-epipen]

I think we are all aware that Fascism happens gradually, crab in boiling pot, first they came for my neighbor then the came for me, etc.

We should be cognizant of it, but not alarmist about it. The U.S. is in a significantly different situation than the Philippines. An interesting anecdote but hardly applicable.

I'd remind you we've done much worse to immigrant citizens than stripping them of due process, as the thousands of Japanese-Americans in internment camps would attest, but that did not lead to us becoming Fascist.

We should focus on the bad things being done without blowing it up to be about the hypothetical fall of democracy. That kind of fear mongering is going to be dismissed as alarmist by most folks, leading to a dismissal of what is being done to the immigrants.

Again, we should be cognizant of threats to democracy, but not alarmist about them. IMO of course.

Another problem with Fascism, it is a totally loaded word, and one that is interpreted by people wildly differently. Seen conversations degrade to people just calling each other fascist, ends up pretty useless.

Yes but there is a big difference  -- one side has all the power right now and the other one is helpless since all the branches of govt, including Supreme Court are under Trump's thumb.

The civility conversations are centered among people who are at the top of the food  chain (like people on this forum) .  they are not the ones being locked up in cages, abused by racists or shot at by the police. 

The right?s revulsion against a black president targeted by birther conspiracy theories is not the same as the left?s revulsion against a racist president who spread birther conspiracy theories.

Faced with the relentless degradation of the Trump presidency, liberals have not taken to marching around in public with assault weapons and threatening civil war.

The problem with sitting idly while fascists use the levers of democracy to actually upend that democracy --  how do you get it back ?

This is why it is very instructive to look at the example of Philippines.  Dont think it cannot happen here when 25% of the population armed to the teeth with millions of assault weapons and easily bendable law enforcement like we are seeing now with ICE and Border Patrol.

So those rightfully elected to power in our democracy are the ones destroying our democracy? This is the same crap spewed by the tea party when dems controlled congress in 2008. How about we continue to operate in our system which is still working and all signs point to its continuing functionality.

If trump starts extending term limits, abolishing the senate, rigging votes, then call me back and I'll come march with you.

 

[inv0ke-epipen]

I can bet you a detached condo  -- that if these crying babies being separated from their mothers and randomly being sent across the country to strangers were white, blonde haired and blue eyed, we would not be having this crisis or conversation ...

I think you mean the crisis and outrage would be much louder! Nothing like a blonde haired blue eyed kid suffering to rally the moral majority.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

I can bet you a detached condo  -- that if these crying babies being separated from their mothers and randomly being sent across the country to strangers were white, blonde haired and blue eyed, we would not be having this crisis or conversation ...

I think you mean the crisis and outrage would be much louder! Nothing like a blonde haired blue eyed kid suffering to rally the moral majority.

It would nothing because there would never be such a policy.

 

[fortune11]

I think we are all aware that Fascism happens gradually, crab in boiling pot, first they came for my neighbor then the came for me, etc.

We should be cognizant of it, but not alarmist about it. The U.S. is in a significantly different situation than the Philippines. An interesting anecdote but hardly applicable.

I'd remind you we've done much worse to immigrant citizens than stripping them of due process, as the thousands of Japanese-Americans in internment camps would attest, but that did not lead to us becoming Fascist.

We should focus on the bad things being done without blowing it up to be about the hypothetical fall of democracy. That kind of fear mongering is going to be dismissed as alarmist by most folks, leading to a dismissal of what is being done to the immigrants.

Again, we should be cognizant of threats to democracy, but not alarmist about them. IMO of course.

Another problem with Fascism, it is a totally loaded word, and one that is interpreted by people wildly differently. Seen conversations degrade to people just calling each other fascist, ends up pretty useless.

Yes but there is a big difference  -- one side has all the power right now and the other one is helpless since all the branches of govt, including Supreme Court are under Trump's thumb.

The civility conversations are centered among people who are at the top of the food  chain (like people on this forum) .  they are not the ones being locked up in cages, abused by racists or shot at by the police. 

The right?s revulsion against a black president targeted by birther conspiracy theories is not the same as the left?s revulsion against a racist president who spread birther conspiracy theories.

Faced with the relentless degradation of the Trump presidency, liberals have not taken to marching around in public with assault weapons and threatening civil war.

The problem with sitting idly while fascists use the levers of democracy to actually upend that democracy --  how do you get it back ?

This is why it is very instructive to look at the example of Philippines.  Dont think it cannot happen here when 25% of the population armed to the teeth with millions of assault weapons and easily bendable law enforcement like we are seeing now with ICE and Border Patrol.

So those rightfully elected to power in our democracy are the ones destroying our democracy? This is the same crap spewed by the tea party when dems controlled congress in 2008. How about we continue to operate in our system which is still working and all signs point to its continuing functionality.

If trump starts extending term limits, abolishing the senate, rigging votes, then call me back and I'll come march with you.

Taking voting rights away is not a problem for you ?

Voting is a right of being a citizen.  If you haven't used that right for a few years doesn't mean you get to lose it - this is what the voter roll purges are doing .  And limited polling places .  And hacked electoral maps. And voter intimidation.

And the Supreme Court is not the Supreme Court  we knew it to be -- it is now weaponized to deliver whatever end the current party in power wants

 

[inv0ke-epipen]

Racism is a part of it, but there is certainly other factors, and not everyone that wants hardline immigration enforcement is a racist. A lot of people just hate the poor. That's why we have nations right? So we can enjoy our riches and keep the poor shmucks in the third world away.

There is a lot of people that just want immigrants to play by the rules and come in legally. No-one wants to live in a community where people are hitting your car, and running because they don't have insurance, living 6 people to a 2 bedroom apartment and taking up all the parking because they are working under the table below minimum wage. Really don't want these third world degenerates causing us first world problems.

It's kind of a jerk viewpoint, if you can tell by my tongue in cheek,  but potentially a valid one. What if we are self-centered and competitive in nature? Is it morally wrong to embrace that?  Why should we help the poor and suffering third world when they should be expected to develop by their own volition?

You're basically writing off the entire idealogy of Political Realism in international relations as racist. There a lot more thought put into Political Realism than race. Going to take a lot more than "you are racist" to convince people to change their minds about it.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/realism-intl-relations/

Because accepting immigrants from other country have been proven economically and historically to help the country as a whole?  Where are the calls to stop illegal immigrants coming from...what are the race of those people?  How are they actually impacted by illegal immigration?   

Poor people are not the ones who voted for Trump...it was older middle class white males (mostly) who couldn't accept the realities of globalization and need something/someone to blame.  If we are competitive by nature, we should be all for people coming into this country because we should be able to to beat them anyways.

There is a lot of doubt that an increased GDP alone helps the country as a whole. The winners might just be the 1% that benefit off the cheap labor.

It's more, I want to win, so I won't even give them a chance to beat me.

 

[fortune11]

Racism is a part of it, but there is certainly other factors, and not everyone that wants hardline immigration enforcement is a racist. A lot of people just hate the poor. That's why we have nations right? So we can enjoy our riches and keep the poor shmucks in the third world away.

There is a lot of people that just want immigrants to play by the rules and come in legally. No-one wants to live in a community where people are hitting your car, and running because they don't have insurance, living 6 people to a 2 bedroom apartment and taking up all the parking because they are working under the table below minimum wage. Really don't want these third world degenerates causing us first world problems.

It's kind of a jerk viewpoint, if you can tell by my tongue in cheek,  but potentially a valid one. What if we are self-centered and competitive in nature? Is it morally wrong to embrace that?  Why should we help the poor and suffering third world when they should be expected to develop by their own volition?

You're basically writing off the entire idealogy of Political Realism in international relations as racist. There a lot more thought put into Political Realism than race. Going to take a lot more than "you are racist" to convince people to change their minds about it.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/realism-intl-relations/

Because accepting immigrants from other country have been proven economically and historically to help the country as a whole?  Where are the calls to stop illegal immigrants coming from...what are the race of those people?  How are they actually impacted by illegal immigration?   

Poor people are not the ones who voted for Trump...it was older middle class white males (mostly) who couldn't accept the realities of globalization and need something/someone to blame.  If we are competitive by nature, we should be all for people coming into this country because we should be able to to beat them anyways.

There is a lot of doubt that an increased GDP alone helps the country as a whole. The winners might just be the 1% that benefit off the cheap labor.

It's more, I want to win, so I won't even give them a chance to beat me.

You better decide

1) are they rapists or drug dealers

OR

2) are they taking away your jobs

unless it is both  in which case you are a real baller and I salute you : )

 

[qwerty]

It's more, I want to win, so I won't even give them a chance to beat me.

I?m pretty sure that?s not the definition of competitor

 

[inv0ke-epipen]

I think we are all aware that Fascism happens gradually, crab in boiling pot, first they came for my neighbor then the came for me, etc.

We should be cognizant of it, but not alarmist about it. The U.S. is in a significantly different situation than the Philippines. An interesting anecdote but hardly applicable.

I'd remind you we've done much worse to immigrant citizens than stripping them of due process, as the thousands of Japanese-Americans in internment camps would attest, but that did not lead to us becoming Fascist.

We should focus on the bad things being done without blowing it up to be about the hypothetical fall of democracy. That kind of fear mongering is going to be dismissed as alarmist by most folks, leading to a dismissal of what is being done to the immigrants.

Again, we should be cognizant of threats to democracy, but not alarmist about them. IMO of course.

Another problem with Fascism, it is a totally loaded word, and one that is interpreted by people wildly differently. Seen conversations degrade to people just calling each other fascist, ends up pretty useless.

Yes but there is a big difference  -- one side has all the power right now and the other one is helpless since all the branches of govt, including Supreme Court are under Trump's thumb.

The civility conversations are centered among people who are at the top of the food  chain (like people on this forum) .  they are not the ones being locked up in cages, abused by racists or shot at by the police. 

The right?s revulsion against a black president targeted by birther conspiracy theories is not the same as the left?s revulsion against a racist president who spread birther conspiracy theories.

Faced with the relentless degradation of the Trump presidency, liberals have not taken to marching around in public with assault weapons and threatening civil war.

The problem with sitting idly while fascists use the levers of democracy to actually upend that democracy --  how do you get it back ?

This is why it is very instructive to look at the example of Philippines.  Dont think it cannot happen here when 25% of the population armed to the teeth with millions of assault weapons and easily bendable law enforcement like we are seeing now with ICE and Border Patrol.

So those rightfully elected to power in our democracy are the ones destroying our democracy? This is the same crap spewed by the tea party when dems controlled congress in 2008. How about we continue to operate in our system which is still working and all signs point to its continuing functionality.

If trump starts extending term limits, abolishing the senate, rigging votes, then call me back and I'll come march with you.

Taking voting rights away is not a problem for you ?

Voting is a right of being a citizen.  If you haven't used that right for a few years doesn't mean you get to lose it - this is what the voter roll purges are doing .  And limited polling places .  And hacked electoral maps. And voter intimidation.

And the Supreme Court is not the Supreme Court  we knew it to be -- it is now weaponized to deliver whatever end the current party in power wants

Voting is so ridiculously easy to do, even with these changes. Voting rights are a huge concern, but they are not being meaningfully effected currently.

Gerrymandering is also a huge problem, we need to move to shortest split line redistricting and mixed member proportional representation.

While were at it, time to throw out first past the post and switch to the alternative vote for presidential elections.

That note on the supreme court is a talking point straight from Glen Beck show. I'll start to worry when their opinions start to have no rational arguments backing them. I encourage everyone to actually read at least the summary opinions (takes no more than 10 minutes) before jumping to the conclusion that the court is compromised.https://www.npr.org/2018/06/26/623525875/read-supreme-court-decision-upholding-trumps-travel-ban

 

[inv0ke-epipen]

It's more, I want to win, so I won't even give them a chance to beat me.

I?m pretty sure that?s not the definition of competitor

I'm talking about Political Realism specifically, and it's understanding of 'Self-Centered Competitiveness'. Not necessarily the standard definition or implication of competitive.

 

[inv0ke-epipen]

I can bet you a detached condo  -- that if these crying babies being separated from their mothers and randomly being sent across the country to strangers were white, blonde haired and blue eyed, we would not be having this crisis or conversation ...

I think you mean the crisis and outrage would be much louder! Nothing like a blonde haired blue eyed kid suffering to rally the moral majority.

It would nothing because there would never be such a policy.

If there is no such policy, why are these blue eyed blonde haired kids being separated  ;D

 

[inv0ke-epipen]

Racism is a part of it, but there is certainly other factors, and not everyone that wants hardline immigration enforcement is a racist. A lot of people just hate the poor. That's why we have nations right? So we can enjoy our riches and keep the poor shmucks in the third world away.

There is a lot of people that just want immigrants to play by the rules and come in legally. No-one wants to live in a community where people are hitting your car, and running because they don't have insurance, living 6 people to a 2 bedroom apartment and taking up all the parking because they are working under the table below minimum wage. Really don't want these third world degenerates causing us first world problems.

It's kind of a jerk viewpoint, if you can tell by my tongue in cheek,  but potentially a valid one. What if we are self-centered and competitive in nature? Is it morally wrong to embrace that?  Why should we help the poor and suffering third world when they should be expected to develop by their own volition?

You're basically writing off the entire idealogy of Political Realism in international relations as racist. There a lot more thought put into Political Realism than race. Going to take a lot more than "you are racist" to convince people to change their minds about it.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/realism-intl-relations/

Because accepting immigrants from other country have been proven economically and historically to help the country as a whole?  Where are the calls to stop illegal immigrants coming from...what are the race of those people?  How are they actually impacted by illegal immigration?   

Poor people are not the ones who voted for Trump...it was older middle class white males (mostly) who couldn't accept the realities of globalization and need something/someone to blame.  If we are competitive by nature, we should be all for people coming into this country because we should be able to to beat them anyways.

There is a lot of doubt that an increased GDP alone helps the country as a whole. The winners might just be the 1% that benefit off the cheap labor.

It's more, I want to win, so I won't even give them a chance to beat me.

You better decide

1) are they rapists or drug dealers

OR

2) are they taking away your jobs

unless it is both  in which case you are a real baller and I salute you : )

They are going to rape you, sell you weed, then steal your job obviously