Midterm Elections
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There's a solution to that, one that provides an objectively better (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0910064) measure of care and is working wonderfully in other first world western countries.
Unfortunately it has 'socialized' in the title, so it will cause too much triggering to implement properly. Also don't forget, it has longer wait times in some countries, so we should only focus on that and ignore all the other metrics of care.
Let's not kid ourselves about why people are up in arms about "immigration" it's not economics..it's racial. First World Countries have a labor shortage problem that are being filled by third-world immigrants....historically the willingness to accept immigrants us what has made the US great but now white people feel threatened. It's as simple as that.
I think we are all aware that Fascism happens gradually, crab in boiling pot, first they came for my neighbor then the came for me, etc.
We should be cognizant of it, but not alarmist about it. The U.S. is in a significantly different situation than the Philippines. An interesting anecdote but hardly applicable.
I'd remind you we've done much worse to immigrant citizens than stripping them of due process, as the thousands of Japanese-Americans in internment camps would attest, but that did not lead to us becoming Fascist.
We should focus on the bad things being done without blowing it up to be about the hypothetical fall of democracy. That kind of fear mongering is going to be dismissed as alarmist by most folks, leading to a dismissal of what is being done to the immigrants.
Again, we should be cognizant of threats to democracy, but not alarmist about them. IMO of course.
Another problem with Fascism, it is a totally loaded word, and one that is interpreted by people wildly differently. Seen conversations degrade to people just calling each other fascist, ends up pretty useless.
The issue isn't should we throw all illegals out. The issue is where do we draw the line of who gets to stay. Conservatives want any illegal who commits any crime whatsoever to be deported. The Libs only want illegals who commit mass murder of school children to be deported, everyone else gets to stay. We need to find a compromise that no one will like but everyone can accept.
Yes and if you watch Tucker and Hannity on Fox , I am sure you also believe that Nancy pelosi is the treasurer for MS 13
You can sell any bunch of lies to people who are willing to buy a tactical flashlight from cable news ads at 3 in the morning because they are scared of brown people invading their 96 percent white neighborhood .
But since conservatives thinks that being here without immigration paper is a crime...it should be "Conservatives want any illegal...whatsoever to be deported"
I wouldn't say sentiments were that much different historically, same pushback happened with the Irish and other European immigrants.
People definitely feel threatened. I don't think you distill that down to just racism, though it is certainly in the mix.
I think we need to have an understanding of the role of nations and benefits/downsides of semi-permeable borders before a good discussion about current immigration policies is really possible. Seems like both sides of the immigration argument go into it with different axioms, and so discussions go nowhere.
Historically it was a racist issue as well...just more nationalistic than just race. There is no economic argument to have had otherwise.
No one saw Mexican immigrants as a threat in the 1980s...no one cared enough. It's completely different now.
LOL...Notorious RBG.
https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/ruth-bader-ginsburgs-trainer-shows-work-supreme-court-50549350
sgip
Well-known member
I'm still convinced there will be a significant "Blue Wave" this year. Now that SCOTUS pick is in the mix, this single event will amp The Left up to 11.
Would sure hate to be the nominee for that open seat, what with the full body cavity search this person (and their family) will be on the receiving end of.
My .02c
SGIP
Would sure hate to be the nominee for that open seat, what with the full body cavity search this person (and their family) will be on the receiving end of.
My .02c
SGIP
inv0ke-epipen
New member
qwerty said:
There's a solution to that, one that provides an objectively better (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0910064) measure of care and is working wonderfully in other first world western countries.
Unfortunately it has 'socialized' in the title, so it will cause too much triggering to implement properly. Also don't forget, it has longer wait times in some countries, so we should only focus on that and ignore all the other metrics of care.
Irvinecommuter
New member
inv0ke-epipen said:
Let's not kid ourselves about why people are up in arms about "immigration" it's not economics..it's racial. First World Countries have a labor shortage problem that are being filled by third-world immigrants....historically the willingness to accept immigrants us what has made the US great but now white people feel threatened. It's as simple as that.
inv0ke-epipen
New member
fortune11 said:
I think we are all aware that Fascism happens gradually, crab in boiling pot, first they came for my neighbor then the came for me, etc.
We should be cognizant of it, but not alarmist about it. The U.S. is in a significantly different situation than the Philippines. An interesting anecdote but hardly applicable.
I'd remind you we've done much worse to immigrant citizens than stripping them of due process, as the thousands of Japanese-Americans in internment camps would attest, but that did not lead to us becoming Fascist.
We should focus on the bad things being done without blowing it up to be about the hypothetical fall of democracy. That kind of fear mongering is going to be dismissed as alarmist by most folks, leading to a dismissal of what is being done to the immigrants.
Again, we should be cognizant of threats to democracy, but not alarmist about them. IMO of course.
Another problem with Fascism, it is a totally loaded word, and one that is interpreted by people wildly differently. Seen conversations degrade to people just calling each other fascist, ends up pretty useless.
It doesn't matter what "Americans" want. Too many rich, powerful, disproportionately politically influential entities need illegals so the US will never throw all the illegals out. Just a few well publicized raids here and there to make "Americans" believe the govt is cracking down while everyone goes back to business as usual.qwerty said:
The issue isn't should we throw all illegals out. The issue is where do we draw the line of who gets to stay. Conservatives want any illegal who commits any crime whatsoever to be deported. The Libs only want illegals who commit mass murder of school children to be deported, everyone else gets to stay. We need to find a compromise that no one will like but everyone can accept.
Kings said:
Yes and if you watch Tucker and Hannity on Fox , I am sure you also believe that Nancy pelosi is the treasurer for MS 13
You can sell any bunch of lies to people who are willing to buy a tactical flashlight from cable news ads at 3 in the morning because they are scared of brown people invading their 96 percent white neighborhood .
Irvinecommuter
New member
Happiness said:
But since conservatives thinks that being here without immigration paper is a crime...it should be "Conservatives want any illegal...whatsoever to be deported"
inv0ke-epipen
New member
Irvinecommuter said:
I wouldn't say sentiments were that much different historically, same pushback happened with the Irish and other European immigrants.
People definitely feel threatened. I don't think you distill that down to just racism, though it is certainly in the mix.
I think we need to have an understanding of the role of nations and benefits/downsides of semi-permeable borders before a good discussion about current immigration policies is really possible. Seems like both sides of the immigration argument go into it with different axioms, and so discussions go nowhere.
Irvinecommuter
New member
inv0ke-epipen said:
Historically it was a racist issue as well...just more nationalistic than just race. There is no economic argument to have had otherwise.
Liberals will never be able to get the American people to accept illegals. The last time the US granted mass amnesty to illegals was in the 80s by Ronald Reagan. Reagan had a long history of being tough on crime and MAGA credentials so he could get away politically with allowing all illegals to stay. People trusted Reagan when he said illegals were no threat. Liberals have no credibility on public safety. Nobody believes it when a Liberals says illegals are no threat. In summary, if you want mass amnesty, you need a conservative champion for illegals like Reagan. This is difficult to achieve now because the Liberals in the Trump era are so rabid they would never think about seeking a conservative to help illegals.
Irvinecommuter
New member
Happiness said:
No one saw Mexican immigrants as a threat in the 1980s...no one cared enough. It's completely different now.
morekaos
Well-known member
Arguments that we are descending into fascism are science fiction at best...
Dear Judd And Kumail: You Have No Idea What A Nazi Really Was
Please find another historical event to exploit. Because you sound like a bunch of hysterical know-nothings.
Now, if you really believed Donald Trump or Kirstjen Nielsen or Sarah Huckabee Sanders are keen on engaging or endorsing this sort of behavior one day, or anything close to it, you?re a depraved coward for not taking up arms and stopping them. And the only other possible reasons for you to constantly compare them to Nazis are that you?re tragically illiterate on basic history or a hopelessly unimaginative and dishonest partisan ? or maybe both.
The word ?Nazi? has lost meaning over decades of partisan abuse. Because though there may be thousands of fitting historic comparisons for people to employ, that?s almost always the one they land on. So when celebrities like Kumail Nanjiani or Judd Apatow use Holocaust analogies to smear Republicans, we should probably just ignore them. Neither, after all, have any special insight into these matters and their hysterics are risible. But the problem is that tens of thousands of people who follow them engage in this crime against reality. And that?s a problem.
If Nanjiani had studied the Holocaust in college he would know that the changes that brought fascism to Germany weren?t really gradual. The pseudo-scientific racial theories that dominated Hitler?s thinking weren?t new, but his rise was abrupt and violent, and could only happen in an environment of indecision and lawlessness. It only took Hitler a few months to gain absolute power after becoming chancellor. After that, war was certain, and happened relatively quickly. While perhaps those points are arguable, it is inarguable that the six million Jews (and tens of millions more) were killed more quickly than any other humans in history were.
Moreover, by 1934 ? where, I guess, we?re supposed to be in this silly analogy ? the German government had already begun adopting dozens of laws and policies on all levels of government that restricted the civil rights of the Jews. Those Jews, who were German citizens and hadn?t committed any crime, weren?t contemplating running for president or creating PACs or starting businesses or taking their grievances to a high court, they were being thrown out of schools and their vocations and avoiding state-sanctioned violence.
http://thefederalist.com/2018/06/26/dear-judd-and-kumail-you-have-no-idea-what-a-nazi-really-was/
Dear Judd And Kumail: You Have No Idea What A Nazi Really Was
Please find another historical event to exploit. Because you sound like a bunch of hysterical know-nothings.
Now, if you really believed Donald Trump or Kirstjen Nielsen or Sarah Huckabee Sanders are keen on engaging or endorsing this sort of behavior one day, or anything close to it, you?re a depraved coward for not taking up arms and stopping them. And the only other possible reasons for you to constantly compare them to Nazis are that you?re tragically illiterate on basic history or a hopelessly unimaginative and dishonest partisan ? or maybe both.
The word ?Nazi? has lost meaning over decades of partisan abuse. Because though there may be thousands of fitting historic comparisons for people to employ, that?s almost always the one they land on. So when celebrities like Kumail Nanjiani or Judd Apatow use Holocaust analogies to smear Republicans, we should probably just ignore them. Neither, after all, have any special insight into these matters and their hysterics are risible. But the problem is that tens of thousands of people who follow them engage in this crime against reality. And that?s a problem.
If Nanjiani had studied the Holocaust in college he would know that the changes that brought fascism to Germany weren?t really gradual. The pseudo-scientific racial theories that dominated Hitler?s thinking weren?t new, but his rise was abrupt and violent, and could only happen in an environment of indecision and lawlessness. It only took Hitler a few months to gain absolute power after becoming chancellor. After that, war was certain, and happened relatively quickly. While perhaps those points are arguable, it is inarguable that the six million Jews (and tens of millions more) were killed more quickly than any other humans in history were.
Moreover, by 1934 ? where, I guess, we?re supposed to be in this silly analogy ? the German government had already begun adopting dozens of laws and policies on all levels of government that restricted the civil rights of the Jews. Those Jews, who were German citizens and hadn?t committed any crime, weren?t contemplating running for president or creating PACs or starting businesses or taking their grievances to a high court, they were being thrown out of schools and their vocations and avoiding state-sanctioned violence.
http://thefederalist.com/2018/06/26/dear-judd-and-kumail-you-have-no-idea-what-a-nazi-really-was/
Irvinecommuter
New member
Kings said:i give grandmother ginsburg a year, tops
LOL...Notorious RBG.
https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/ruth-bader-ginsburgs-trainer-shows-work-supreme-court-50549350
