Irvine or Baker Ranch (Lake Forest)

[qwerty]

Saddleback Valley Unified averages 867 on the API.

Irvine is at 924 and has the highest average API in Orange County.

so irvine has a 6% higher API score than saddleback valley - what does that even really mean? is that even significant?

 

[qwerty]

My wife and I purchased in the first phase at BR and we plan to rent the property in 5-10 years. Lake Forest is a good neighborhood to purchase your first home. Also parents are responsible for how well a student does, not the school as proven by the notes above. Foreigners push to have their kids perform to the maximum when it comes to education as all parents should!!!

I don't know why the discussion always falls into how well a student does...no one is saying that a kid will be a doctor if she goes to IUSD versus a janitor if she goes to Saddleback Valley. 

For home buying purposes, the perception and reputation of a school district provide powerful incentives for potential buyers to buy, thus raising the value of one's home and buffering it against downturns.  One of the key reasons why people want to buy homes in Irvine is because of the school district and one of the reasons why people may not want to buy at BR is because of the school district.  You may disagree with the assessment or the view, but you cannot deny the effects on potential buyers.

i think its somewhat implied though that going to IUSD vs name that school district will lead to a better future for your child, otherwise people wouldnt pay the crazy premium for mostly shit product you get in irvine.

Of course there is that implication...it's perception and reputation.  Whether you believe it or not, many people do.  That leads to a large buyer pool and higher home prices.

hey you were the one trying to deny the implication with your "no one is saying IUSD student = doctor and others equal janitor."

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Baker ranch is just another master planned community. Having a few spas and sparking (for now) pools doesn't make it that special.

Just like Irvine. 

Agreed. Except $1m homes are a dime a dozen in irvine. No so much in lake forest.  I would never bet $1m in lake forest but that's just me

Plus I think you're quoting me without context.  I believe this was in relation to Baker Ranch versus all the other crap stuff in Lake Forest.

Not sure if you're familiar with the Monbury neighborhood of Lake Forest but there are homes there that do trade in the millions.  And as someone else has pointed out the Lake neighborhoods of Lake Forest also do have homes in the millions as does Foothill Ranch.  Granted there's not as many million dollar areas as there are in Irvine. 

One would think that much of Irvine's ever increasing prices are highly due to the influx of the foreigners looking to buy there.  The population of Irvine's Asian community has doubled from 40k to over 80k from 2000 to 2010, respectfully taking the Asian population from the 20's to the 40's percentile.  Generally speaking most areas that are higher in Asian concentration have higher property prices.  It could also be said the same for the higher school scores.  For example, if comparing Irvine High School to El Toro High School (in Lake Forest):

Irvine High School API scores

Overall score: 877
Whites score: 868
Asians score: 918

EL Toro High School API scores

Overall score: 839
Whites score: 871
Asians score: 916

Fairly similar scores when comparing races at each school however the overall scores between the schools significantly vary.  The reason being the population of the schools by race (who took the test) also significantly vary:

Irvine High School:
Whites: 373 students
Asians: 543 students

El Toro High School: 
Whites: 1013 students
Asians: 130 students

I would imagine if more Asians attended El Toro the school would have a higher overall API score similar to that of Irvine High School.  These trends can be seen in the San Gabriel valley as well where the higher Asian population has impacted their schools test scores and also their real estate prices. 

That said, one could say that property prices in Irvine are overpriced.  A significant number of those that are buying into the million dollar homes are foreigners that are either appreciative of the convenience (close proximity to Asian markets and stores), have bought into the idea that their kids will attend a better school in ISD, or are looking to capitalize on other foreigners.

Additionally Irvine has been able to attract foreigners with new home developments while Lake Forest has stood relatively still for a decade without any new neighborhoods developed.  I do believe we'll see Baker Ranch become an interest to foreigners despite of the reported 7,000 that attended the open house "said to be largely whites".  Until then the reason these are selling well is because they are attractive to the native Californians here.

Not sure why you picked just Irvine High..

Northwood High:

Schoolwide 1442 921
Asian         753 951
White         477         890

Schoolwide 1684 913 
Asian           825 947
White           606 891

These are the two high schools that parents are pushing to get into.  You have to understand that the Asians who are moving into these areas are already the "best of the best" from their homeland.  They place super high value on education and already have a genetic advantage over other kids. 

It's basically a chicken/egg issue...is IUSD good because high performing students go there or do high performing students go to IUSD because it is good.  Regardless, the reality is that IUSD is a very very high performing district.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

My wife and I purchased in the first phase at BR and we plan to rent the property in 5-10 years. Lake Forest is a good neighborhood to purchase your first home. Also parents are responsible for how well a student does, not the school as proven by the notes above. Foreigners push to have their kids perform to the maximum when it comes to education as all parents should!!!

I don't know why the discussion always falls into how well a student does...no one is saying that a kid will be a doctor if she goes to IUSD versus a janitor if she goes to Saddleback Valley. 

For home buying purposes, the perception and reputation of a school district provide powerful incentives for potential buyers to buy, thus raising the value of one's home and buffering it against downturns.  One of the key reasons why people want to buy homes in Irvine is because of the school district and one of the reasons why people may not want to buy at BR is because of the school district.  You may disagree with the assessment or the view, but you cannot deny the effects on potential buyers.

i think its somewhat implied though that going to IUSD vs name that school district will lead to a better future for your child, otherwise people wouldnt pay the crazy premium for mostly shit product you get in irvine.

Of course there is that implication...it's perception and reputation.  Whether you believe it or not, many people do.  That leads to a large buyer pool and higher home prices.

hey you were the one trying to deny the implication with your "no one is saying IUSD student = doctor and others equal janitor."

No...I was saying that there is no one here who says that someone IUSD magically makes your kid a doctor.  But there is perception and reputation, which in turn feeds into a bigger buying pool and higher property prices.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Saddleback Valley Unified averages 867 on the API.

Irvine is at 924 and has the highest average API in Orange County.

so irvine has a 6% higher API score than saddleback valley - what does that even really mean? is that even significant?

1)  API scores are bell curved so it's much bigger difference than 6%.  The score is also deceptive, the Similar Rank Scores is also very important.  It compares the scores of the school with 100 schools with similar socioeconomic and demographic makeup. 

SRS for:

El Toro: 4
Laguna: 9
Mission Viejo:  5
Trabuco:  3

Irvine High:         7
Northwood High 8
University High 7
Woodbridge High 6

The point is that SVUSD high school (other than Laguna) underperform as compare to other similar schools while IUSD school outperform. 

In fact, if you look at the SRS scores for SVUSD, most of the schools underperform relative to comparable schools.  IUSD generally overperforms. 

http://api.cde.ca.gov/Acnt2013/2012Base_Dst.aspx?cYear=&allcds=3073650&cChoice=2012BDst

http://api.cde.ca.gov/Acnt2013/2012Base_Dst.aspx?cYear=&allcds=3073635&cChoice=2012BDst

IUSD's elementary school and middle school performance are especially strong (which reflect the influx of new home buyers in the last 10 years)...I suspect the HS scores are going to get even higher.

2)  I pretty much said that if the kid is smart and the parents are responsible that the kid will be fine. 

 

[bones]

.

 

[qwerty]

Who gives a sh!t what the API scores say. What spoke volumes to me is 10,000 people walked thru opening day and 7000 people supposedly prequaled and they couldn't sell out the first phase? 

I don't think it was the schools, it was the jail

 

[Coleman]

I do agree with a point that Bones was making about higher priced homes in Irvine seem to be more like a dime a dozen.

The 1 million + homes are much, much, more rare in Lake Forest and nearly non existent in Foothill Ranch. (yes, I know about the 1.1m listing there right now) Yes, I know about the Keys with their million dollar lake front homes.  However, just caddy corner from that lake you have the other lake with no million dollar homes. The best house on that lake just sold for 815k and even a realtor neighbor felt that the house was overvalued by over $100k. I've seen many of the Montbury listings when I was looking for my new house this past summer and thought it was a nice neighborhood.

Everything is all personal preference.  Depending on what you value will determine where you live.  Therefore, it's hard to argue with people because we all want something different.  Yes, we may value the same attributes to a community, but to what degree do we value each of those is different.

I personally love Irvine and think it's an amazing place to live.  However, when it came down to putting my money where my mouth is, Foothill Ranch was a much wiser decision for my wife and me.  I love it and would highly recommend Foothill Ranch to others.  Do I feel that it's better than Irvine?  Yes and No.  I guess I just try to see the positives in things.  Call me OptiCole.  8)

 

[Coleman]

Who gives a sh!t what the API scores say. What spoke volumes to me is 10,000 people walked thru opening day and 7000 people supposedly prequaled and they couldn't sell out the first phase?

Funny to read posts like this with a smiling Jeter in the peripheral.

 

[bones]

.

 

[socal78]

foreigners... lol... you white?

Homie, please be respectful. We prefer honky.

 

[socal78]

A significant number of those that are buying into the million dollar homes are foreigners that ...are looking to capitalize on other foreigners.

Yup. A.k.a. The "Greater Fool Theory".

I do believe we'll see Baker Ranch become an interest to foreigners despite of the reported 7,000 that attended the open house "said to be largely whites".

I don't know who claimed it was largely whites. The pics I saw online showed about 50/50. When I went on a random weekday, it was about 50/50. I have no idea what direction it will go but am curious to find out. I guess I'll see soon when the influx of new residents heads my way at school.

 

[notTHEoc]

I would never buy in Irvine for various reasons. Property values will go up in all locations. To me it appears that people who over pay in Irvine always try to convince other people that irvine is the best and to be honest it is not the best city to live in. I would rather Live in Newport Coast over spending = money in Irvine. I Know a lot of people who cant wait to get out of Irvine along with people who specifically choose to live in other cities.

Is it not the best city to live in because
a) too expensive to find the kind of house you want
b) too many Asians
c) don't like the city itself (i.e., city planning, the location, the amenities, recreation, safety, etc.)

I know people who don't want to be in Irvine also, but usually not because of c)

 

[socal78]

Oh yeah, and, welcome to TI, Tex.

 

[notTHEoc]

a

 

[notTHEoc]

a

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Who gives a sh!t

Whoah... feisty.

 

[OpenSky]

 

[irvinehomeowner]

To me it appears that people who over pay in Irvine always try to convince other people that irvine is the best and to be honest it is not the best city to live in.

Heh... Irvine *IS* the best city to live in.

And yes... it is also overpriced... but isn't that why people pay more for stuff they think is the best? I think MBZs, BMWs and most luxury vehicles are overpriced but I don't see people having to explain why they buy them over cars that do the same thing for less.

I'm actually ashamed of what we've paid for homes in Irvine... don't even want to tell my relatives/friends because they'll think I'm crazy.

But... I would have a harder time justifying paying $1m+ for a new home in Lake Forest when it has few benefits over a new build in Irvine.

Just like someone would question paying $50k for a Honda Accord right?

 

[socal78]

Actually, Irvine requires a lot less explanation than most other communities.

There's definitely an inferiority complex in neighboring hoods, which is quite common.

I see it the other way around. There's a common thing people say when they see a man driving an expensive sports car: "What's he over-compensating for?" If you're not American, you may not know that the implied answer is: the bigger the car, the smaller the penis. Urban Dictionary Link just for fun. I'm not the only one who disagrees with you. Even Amy Chua's lists "inferiority complex" as 1 of the 3 traits in the book "Triple Package" when describing certain ethnic groups such as her own & one found in Irvine.