coronavirus

[irvinehomeowner]

I don?t think anyone is saying covid isn?t serious / isn?t a killer.

I think the issue most people have is whether this new disease/killer warrants a change in the worlds lifestyle, another new normal(how many normals can there be?).

Our response to a disease/killer has never been anything like this before. I think R2Ds point is people die every day, this is just a new type of death and there has never been a similar response to other types of deaths, which is a practical view to have. 

Is the response/change in lifestyle worth it? We damaged the economy, then protests broke out world wide that defy the social distancing orders. Trampling whatever rights we have, right or wrong, was not an issue before, protests breakout and now it?s ok, this particular right is greater than rights related to the pandemic. Whatever good the shutdown did may have been wiped out by the protests (probably will never know).

Ultimately it kind of seems like we end up in the same place where we would have without the crazy reaction. So it seems like we should just add covid to the list of diseases/killers of everyday life and move on. 

I understand this sentiment but I think the issue here is we still don't know enough about Covid to throw it into a class of "flu that happens every year". This attacks our systems differently and there could be permanent damage even if you recover. Until we know more and have proper vaccines/treatments, I would rather err on the side of caution than "people die every day".

That's easy to say until you or your loved one is that person who dies. Isn't that why the whole Floyd movement is so important... because we want to avoid unnecessary deaths?

 

[nosuchreality]

Ultimately it kind of seems like we end up in the same place where we would have without the crazy reaction. So it seems like we should just add covid to the list of diseases/killers of everyday life and move on. 

We have acted like a drug addict who is still in denial about their addiction and refuses to get help.  We might as well accept we're shooting up and move on.

Honestly, we're our response has been to choose amputation over keeping our blood sugar in target ranges.

 

[adventurous]

Orange County easing mask protocols at midnight tonight.

Not necessary for outdoors or restaurants but required for indoor spaces where social distancing can be compromised.

I am in agreement with this type of mandate... as I've said before... I don't wear my mask when out walking or biking... but any time I will be in close proximity with people indoors, I wear one.

Those are mere suggestions. Businesses follow it as a part of CYA policy. It's really a petty attempt "to do something". Waste of time, waste of money.

 

[Kenkoko]

You know that hospitals get a LOT of extra reimbursement if coronavirus is included as a potential diagnosis, right? Hey doc, this guy have coronavirus? I dunno. He's dead. We didn't test him. We aren't wasting tests on dead people. COULD he have had it? Well he had respiratory problems, so who knows? Yeah, sounds good. R/O Coronavirus. Bingo...??? upped the reimbursement.

It sounds like a juiced up media fabricated story. That's not how it works in the real world. What you described is fraud. Not saying frauds don't exist but that's not how hospital billings work.

Pre-COVID, the requirement to obtain prior authorization for medical services is widely acknowledged to be one of the greatest administrative burdens that hospitals face. Not only that, it can also lead to delayed or denied medical care if the payer refuses to grant authorization for the requested service. If the hospital goes ahead and provides the service anyway, they can receive payment denials for lack of authorization.

Since Covid, government agencies as well as many private payers have recently relaxed their prior authorization requirements for post-acute settings, hoping to free up beds for patients hospitalized with COVID-19.

The truth is hospitals and doctors do get paid more for Medicare patients diagnosed with COVID-19 or if it's considered presumed they have COVID-19 absent a laboratory-confirmed test, if treatments were indeed rendered and documented. Main purpose of this is to cover the cost of care and loss of business resulting from a shift in focus to treat COVID-19 cases.

Increasing reimbursements by slapping a COVID diagnostic code on a dead non-Covid patient who didn't get care would be committing fraud. Could some desperate hospitals be doing this? maybe. But it's not happening at a large scale.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Fox LA News: OC health officer resigns after threats over requiring residents to wear face masks

Protesters began demonstrating against her and even went to her home. At a recent Board of Supervisors meeting, residents brought a poster with Quick's photo on it with a Hitler mustache on her face and swastikas.

It got to the point where the county's top medical professional was receiving heightened security over the threats.

The county's top medical professional was receiving heightened security due to threats that stemmed from that health order.

Supervisor Doug Chaffee said Quick resigned apparently because it was too much for her. She has three young children and she's been severely criticized by people who came out demanding her resignation, demonstrations in front of her home.

Chaffee noted that for all the residents who show up at board of supervisors meetings to complain about the mask order officials have received a great deal of expressions of support for it.

The email is 10 to one to keep it, Chaffee said. They're afraid to show up (at board  meetings) because of the confrontation it will entail.
https://www.foxla.com/news/oc-healt...s-over-requiring-residents-to-wear-face-masks

My comments:
The OC health officer resigns the heath officer for OC area. They went to her house to protest and made threats to her. Come on! Unbelievable
One of the OC board supervisors Chaffe notes they received correspondence 10 to 1 in favor of wearing masks.

This was a sad story. Especially since in local politics, we aren't typically talking about career politicians, etc. This are people who truly are serving the local communities (who have full time paid gigs, etc). 

Yep... just trying to protect the public health and keep people safe because of the reopenings and they protest in front of her house. Seriously? Comparing her to Nazis?

This is why some things have to be mandated because some people are concerned about the wrong things.

 

[adventurous]

Yep... just trying to protect the public health and keep people safe because of the reopenings and they protest in front of her house. Seriously? Comparing her to Nazis?

This is why some things have to be mandated because some people are concerned about the wrong things.

1A at its best. You can use it for good, and you can use it for bad. People often don't understand the consequences of their actions. Then again, anyone choosing the political career in the U.S. should be ready to deal with it.
Glad, I am not a politician.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

So looks like cases are rising in some states, decreasing in others... it's important that everyone follows proper safety protocols to keep the spread at bay:

Some States Are Learning What Happens to COVID-19 Cases If You Reopen Too Early
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/covid19-cases-rising-states-reopened

If you?re waiting to see when COVID-19 cases might start to increase after states reopen businesses and public facilities, you might not have to wait much longer.

In fact, in some states, it appears that upward trend is already well under way.

A tracking map done by the Washington Post showed that 14 states recorded their highest seven-day average of new confirmed COVID-19 cases during the first week of June.

In addition, a daily tracking map done by The New York Times reports that 20 states have had rising confirmed COVID-19 cases over the past 14 days.

Six of those states are in the South, which was the first region to reopen businesses and public places.

The map also shows 23 states with decreasing case numbers over the past 2 weeks and 7 states where cases have plateaued.

A weekly graph done by Reuters shows 21 states with an increase in COVID-19 cases for the week that ended June 7.

The graph indicated there are 10 states that saw confirmed COVID-19 cases rise by more than 30 percent during the first week of June. Among them were the southwestern states of Arizona, Utah, and New Mexico.

The report also noted that the number of new infections for the past week rose by 3 percent nationwide, the first increase after five weeks of decline.

The steadily rising number of cases has sparked a debate over whether and how states should reopen.

?Some will say if case numbers are up, why reopen?? But we have to reopen,? Dr. David Rubin, MSCE, director of PolicyLab at Children?s Hospital of Philadelphia, which has been modeling the spread of COVID-19, told Healthline in late May. ?The discussion is how well you can contain transmission as you reopen.?

And because morekaos/qwerty thought Texas would be a good example since they were one of the earliest to reopen:

Texas, which allowed all stores, restaurants, malls and movie theaters to open in early May, appears to have some of the worst projections.

Dallas County is projected to see roughly doubling in daily new cases. El Paso County is projected to see about a 50 percent increase.

Denton County, north of Dallas, is projected to see daily new cases double. Houston?s Galveston County is projected to see daily cases triple.

But some good news:

In general, though, reopening hasn?t wreaked havoc ? yet.

?I don?t see a clear pattern yet. There hasn?t been a clear explosion across the country,? Schaffner said.

There has been speculation that the virus could behave like the seasonal flu, which generally fades in the summer.

Schaffner acknowledged that was a possibility.

But we don?t know that yet, he said, and it?s unlikely to fully disappear.

?The virus is not going to take a summer holiday. It?s going to be with us, and will continue to smolder around,? he said.

We just need to make sure to handle any large spread and isolate any hot spots.

I don't think a 2nd nation-wide lockdown (well... it was really a soft lockdown) is necessary... as long as we monitor and respond quickly in certain areas. NYC showed us this in a way in how they were able to get it under control earlier than later.

 

[morekaos]

The news gets better...

The Common Cold May Give COVID-19 Immunity Lasting up to 17 Years, New Research Suggests

Immunology experts recently released a paper suggesting that coronavirus immunity might be possible through a different genetic pattern of SARS, or the common cold. They claim that this possible immunity may last up to 17 years.

Coronavirus related symptoms that mimic the common cold, called betacoronavirus, may either have immunity or be infected by a milder form of the virus. Betacoronaviruses, specifically OC43 and HKU1, are the cause of common colds as well as severe chest infections, leaving the young and elderly in critical conditions.
[url]https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/26038/20200612/common-cold-give-covid-19-immunity-lasting-up-17-years.htm[/url]

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Lady in 20s has double lung transplant because Covid damaged her lungs so badly:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health...ant-for-covid-19-patient-performed-in-chicago

Doctors at Northwestern Memorial Hospital in Chicago announced Thursday they've performed the first successful double-lung transplant on a COVID-19 patient in the United States.

The woman in her 20s was otherwise healthy but developed a severe case of COVID-19 that resulted in hospitalization, says Dr. Ankit Bharat, Northwestern's chief of thoracic surgery.

For two months, she was in the intensive care unit on a ventilator and another machine, known as ECMO, that pumps and oxygenates blood outside of the body. Although she eventually cleared the coronavirus from her body, she remained in severe condition.

By early June, Bharat says the patient's lungs showed irreversible damage. She was at risk of further decline and began showing signs that her kidneys and liver were starting to fail with no improvement in her lung function.

"As a result of the COVID, she had formed these cavities inside the lung, and those cavities had become infected, and that bacteria was driving sepsis," Bharat says.

Bharat says they determined a double-lung transplant was her only chance of survival.

This is some of the unknowns about lasting damage from Covid that I worry about. Sure... maybe you get it and you recover... but what about long term? Just because it doesn't target calves doesn't mean everything will be okay.

 

[qwerty]

Yeah but the more serious cases like the lung transplant are outliers. At some point we have to play the %s. That?s what data/science is right? Listen to the numbers? We need to respond based on the majority, not the outliers.

And I read about a case about a man in China losing his left calve (amputation) from covid - it was devastating to read. The saddest thing I?ve read in years

 

[bones]

Yea I agree - you have to play the %s.  I still think people should be more cautious.  I have a kid (<10) who plays a sport and there have been tournaments held/being held in the upcoming weeks that include kids (and families) from AZ, TX, NV, etc.  If the NBA is doing a bubble, local teams should do the same and just play other local teams.

 

[nosuchreality]

I curious how the 20 yr old with destroyed lungs from covid found and was prioritized for transplant given all the unknowns from the disease?  I know need is a big factor but so is one year survivability. 

I wonder how much 'this is a cool case' factored in to the effort.

 

[Happiness]

Experts agree, racism is a bigger threat to public health than covid-19:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-09/coronavirus-protests-health-experts?utm_source=sfmc_100035609&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=26098+Essential+California+06%2f12%2f20&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.latimes.com%2fcalifornia%2fstory%2f2020-06-09%2fcoronavirus-protests-health-experts&utm_id=8262&sfmc_id=1803718

 

[Happiness]

Being cautious does not entitle you to affect other people's lives.

For example, if you are scared about sending your kids back to school, then go ahead and keep your kids at home. You have no right to agitate, spread rumors, harass public school districts, etc. to keep schools closed for everyone, including those who want their kids to go back to school. 

 

[bones]

Except being cautious will affect other people?s lives.  The more people that are cautious this summer, the more likely schools will open/operate as close to ?normal? as possible this fall.

 

[nosuchreality]

Being cautious does not entitle you to affect other people's lives.

For example, if you are scared about sending your kids back to school, then go ahead and keep your kids at home. You have no right to agitate, spread rumors, harass public school districts, etc. to keep schools closed for everyone, including those who want their kids to go back to school. 

More drivel confusing recklessness with bravery, prudence with fear.

 

[adventurous]

Except being cautious will affect other people?s lives.  The more people that are cautious this summer, the more likely schools will open/operate as close to ?normal? as possible this fall.

We've been under stay at home order since March. It only helped to raise the number of daily cases 10 times. Obviously, America is not China. Whatever works in the oppressive state doesn't show effective under  democracy.

 

[bones]

Except being cautious will affect other people?s lives.  The more people that are cautious this summer, the more likely schools will open/operate as close to ?normal? as possible this fall.

We've been under stay at home order since March. It only helped to raise the number of daily cases 10 times. Obviously, America is not China. Whatever works in the oppressive state doesn't show effective under  democracy.

Cautious doesn?t mean to shelter in place or China.
But your point is a valid one. If nothing works to keep numbers down, then schools may have already decided on distance or hybrid learning this fall. Without any harassment

One OC private school already announced a ?you decide? fall 2020. Parents can opt for complete distance learning if that?s what they want regardless if in person classes are held.

 

[eyephone]

Except being cautious will affect other people?s lives.  The more people that are cautious this summer, the more likely schools will open/operate as close to ?normal? as possible this fall.

We've been under stay at home order since March. It only helped to raise the number of daily cases 10 times. Obviously, America is not China. Whatever works in the oppressive state doesn't show effective under  democracy.

Cautious doesn?t mean to shelter in place or China.
But your point is a valid one. If nothing works to keep numbers down, then schools may have already decided on distance or hybrid learning this fall. Without any harassment

One OC private school already announced a ?you decide? fall 2020. Parents can opt for complete distance learning if that?s what they want regardless if in person classes are held.

Denmark, New Zealand, South Korea, Thailand
Not China! They vote for their leaders. They did not spend trillions of dollars and do not have a vaccine. But they have a grip on covid. The US is losing big time.

 

[adventurous]

One OC private school already announced a ?you decide? fall 2020. Parents can opt for complete distance learning if that?s what they want regardless if in person classes are held.

There is no point to continue stay at home or distant learning, if COVID rates explode anyway.
The private schools have more flexibility, since the parent pay for it directly. Also, distant learning is less effective than in class studies for the majority of the students.