coronavirus

[sgip]

Logically thinking, you're saying Russia overcounted it's death rate (a negative) or under counted it's death rate (as China has)?

No one is saying we can't do better.

Some things might work, but others will never work in our present society. We can't "social distance" so to speak as Canada is naturally. We can't become a near ethnically uniform nation, as Japan is. Comparing low mortality rate countries like Germany or South Africa to higher mortality rate countries like the US as a whole is not a workable thesis. Comparing California (39m population - 21k deaths) to Argentina (44m population - 40k deaths) is a better, but even then you have season flips - we're in Winter, they're in Summer - geography, economics, healthcare status.

The post is simply using non-US data, reliably sourced, to demonstrate the US is no different from many, many other nations at sufferance. We are doing more right than wrong, but improvement is always a possibility. That much alone I think we can find some common ground on.

My .02c

 

[Kenkoko]

Logically thinking, you're saying Russia overcounted it's death rate (a negative) or under counted it's death rate (as China has)?

No one is saying we can't do better.

Some things might work, but others will never work in our present society. We can't "social distance" so to speak as Canada is naturally. We can't become a near ethnically uniform nation, as Japan is. Comparing low mortality rate countries like Germany or South Africa to higher mortality rate countries like the US as a whole is not a workable thesis. Comparing California (35m - 21k deaths) to Argentina (44m - 40k deaths) is a better, but even then you have season flips - we're in Winter, they're in Summer - geography, economics, healthcare status.

The post is simply using non-US data, reliably sourced, to demonstrate the US is no different from many, many other nations at sufferance. We are doing more right than wrong, but improvement is always a possibility. That much alone I think we can find some common ground on.

My .02c

Are we really doing more right than wrong?

Look at how much American confidence in covid vaccine has declined since May 2020. We went from having 42% of Americans "definitely will take the vaccine" in May to just 29% "definitely" now.

More importantly, 39% of U.S. adults would not get the covid vaccine. 21% of U.S. adults do not intend to get vaccinated and are certain more information will not change their mind.

Yet, getting vaccinated is the only way we will get out of this relatively quickly.

Let's stop blaming our shortcomings and our collective ignorance on cultural and geographical differences.

https://www.pewresearch.org/science...n-research-and-development-process-increases/

 

[Irvinecommuter]

@Kenoko - The reason 5 European area countries were chosen in my example is because that's what the EU sourced data in the link had in their top line - Great Britain, Italy, France, Spain, and Russia.  Canada doesn't have the same population density. Japan is a homogeneous culture and difficult to use on a comparative basis. These are some of the reasons why Cameroon, Saudi Arabia, or Ecuador isn't in that example. 380m population total in a 1st world (perhaps excluding West Virginia.....  ) , multicultural, limited border restriction countries all with about 300k deaths as we have here in the US.

Don't most flu bugs worsen in the Winter? Given the recent rise in cases, some of the increase has to be considered "seasonal" rather than "situational".

My .02c

Great Britain had a very similar POV to the virus as did US. 
Spain was also criticize for its poor handling of COVID.
Putin basically stated that there was no COVID in Russia and that they had a vaccine for months.

Italy did better but they have the oldest population in Europe.

If you want to compare...why not Germany?  1/5 the death rate of US.

Compare Sweden (with its lax standards) as to its Scandavanian neighbors. 

This concept that somehow what the US did is excusable because other countries have mishandled it is ridiculous.

Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand, and most of African did well.  In large part because they had strong coordinated central government who had a coherent central strategy. 

The United States revamped its entire economy and rationized the entire country for 5 years during WW2.  We completely reshaped our security and policing apparatus after 9/11...we are having a 9/11 event every day now.

And yes...this wave of death was predicted by experts back in April/May...remember Trump said that it would all go away and that there may not be a second wave?  Well...here it is.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Honestly...I am amazed as to how low of a bar we are now setting for the United States.  I thought America was exceptional?  I thought Americans work harder, make more sacrifices, and love their country more than everyone else and that is what makes it "#1". Remember...Americans only like winners...there is no no. 2.

Everytime a new challenges...all I hear are excuses.  We can't have Universe Healthcare because it's too hard...we cannot deal with gun violence because our history is violent...we cannot handle COVID properly because we love our freedom too much.   

If United States was an employee of a company, it would be fired by now.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

So far, running around with your hair on fire has not seemed to have advance the ball much.[/b][/size][/color]

Clearly...we should have just opened up the country and let 3 million people die.

 

[sgip]

"Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand, and most of African did well.  In large part because they had strong coordinated central government who had a coherent central strategy. "

Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan are not a multi-ethnic societies. They also had a culture of mask use. We have a learning curve.

Australia and New Zealand have seen 1 winter with the disease, not two, as we are going through. They will get the vaccine early so their death rates will likely be lower overall - as it may be in most Southern Hemisphere nations.

New Zealand is a small, isolated island group that can control their population and contact with the outsider world much easier. That's why death rates in Madagascar, Iceland, Guam, and Hawaii are lower countries situated on other larger land masses.

Comparing is difficult, and we can learn from other groups, but one size does not fit all. Like it or not in an open and free society there are trade offs. If you want a strong centralized reaction to the pandemic, where does Newsom fall on your scale of success? Given California's numbers it's not promising.  In a free and open society I choose to wear a mask. I want others to wear masks. What do I want done with "mask refusers" Shunned?, Ok. Arrested? Nope.

BTW, Given that the United States has done so poorly at all this pandemic stuff, I'm looking forward to the Japanese/South Korean/Taiwanese/Australian/and or New Zealand COVID-19 vaccine. I'm sure each of their respective National Healthcare Services will roll out their home grown solution any moment now.

Aaaany... moment... now....

 

[eyephone]

"Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand, and most of African did well.  In large part because they had strong coordinated central government who had a coherent central strategy. "

Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan are not a multi-ethnic societies. They also had a culture of mask use. We have a learning curve.

Australia and New Zealand have seen 1 winter with the disease, not two, as we are going through. They will get the vaccine early so their death rates will likely be lower overall - as it may be in most Southern Hemisphere nations.

New Zealand is a small, isolated island group that can control their population and contact with the outsider world much easier. That's why death rates in Madagascar, Iceland, Guam, and Hawaii are lower countries situated on other larger land masses.

Comparing is difficult, and we can learn from other groups, but one size does not fit all. Like it or not in an open and free society there are trade offs. If you want a strong centralized reaction to the pandemic, where does Newsom fall on your scale of success? Given California's numbers it's not promising.  In a free and open society I choose to wear a mask. I want others to wear masks. What do I want done with "mask refusers" Shunned?, Ok. Arrested? Nope.

BTW, Given that the United States has done so poorly at all this pandemic stuff, I'm looking forward to the Japanese/South Korean/Taiwanese/Australian/and or New Zealand COVID-19 vaccine. I'm sure each of their respective National Healthcare Services will roll out their home grown solution any moment now.

Aaaany... moment... now....

Trying to follow your logic.
1. You bash other countries when they are doing something correct. It doesnt fit argument is weak at best.
2. You make excuses for people not to wear masks.
3. News flash. The vaccine will not roll out to all anytime soon.
4. Side bar. If only a certain number of people get a vaccine. It does not work.
5. During the 1918 flu. There were signs that if you did not wear a mask. You went to jail. (100 years later it seems that our society has not changed and we do not enforce the mask law)
6. Why create another wheel if it already works in other countries?
7. Just admit it Trump fumbled the ball. He said the pandemic was over. But we all know it is not.

It is like a conspiracy theory. How about let us all come together? Just mask it up and get vaccinated. So we can move on with our lives. But we know the other side is knee deep in mud they will not change.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

SGIP with all due respect..those are all excuses.  My car broke down, the traffic was jammed, there was a great taco stand on the way.  Good and responsible workers/employers/companies anticipate problems, prepare for them, and then take dynamic steps to address ever changing situations.  Poor employees/employees/companies are the one always complaining about how other people are different and that no one else understand his/her/its sorrows.

US was once the go-getter, make it happen, and never say die start up company...now its the behind the times/don't get it antique that has its CEO  go on TV to explain how the world is unfair and that it will see brighter days. 

I like how you completely bypassed Australia...it is basically United States as to geography.  United States' geographic isolation is what allowed it to avoid devastation with respect to pandemics and wars.  United States is basically an island (unless somehow you think that Mexico/Canada is what caused US to fail at COVID)

There were many things that the US could have done but elected not to.  I will give you a simple example of something that Taiwan did early that made a big difference...it nationalized mask production and then provided ample supply of cheap high quality masks to all citizens.  Taiwanese people did not need to freak out about masks or whether they have enough...the government took that stress/panic away.

Meanwhile, the United States decided to go mad max on PPE and cleaning supplies, leading people to go into a panic/hording mode..which lead to distrust in government and authority. 

As a financial person, you should appreciate the role that the FDIC provides in ensuring that bank runs don't happen by having that 250K assurance. 

What if the US government just ignored the financial crisis and the central bank/fed did not thing to help the financial system in 2008?  What would the result be?  And should we be surprised if this lack of action resulted in financial collapse and prolong economic depression like I don't know...the Great Depression?

GOP/Conservatives always mock governments don't work after they have gutted government funding and programs....then gut them some more. 

Again...how did the US come together for 5+ years in WW2?  What about after 9/11?  I though Americans are the ones who hunker down and sacrifice to get things done?  We cannot even wear a stupid mask to literally save our lives.

BTW, Given that the United States has done so poorly at all this pandemic stuff, I'm looking forward to the Japanese/South Korean/Taiwanese/Australian/and or New Zealand COVID-19 vaccine. I'm sure each of their respective National Healthcare Services will roll out their home grown solution any moment now.

Aaaany... moment... now....

Seriously...that's your defense.  300K death later..."hey we have a vaccine".  You know who also has a vaccine...Germany.

And how the heck are the two connected?  US cannot chew gum and walk at the same time?

You know it's okay to say that we completely failed as a government and as a people and we need to do much better rather than making excuses and belittling the efforts and success of others right?  America has gotten so arrogant that it cannot believe that other countries have better ideas.

 

[nosuchreality]

The USA does not have a vaccine.  We bought a vaccine.  We are now standing in line with everybody else to buy more from a gloval corporation we incentivized to build it.

And ironically, with a 126 million population, Japan already has Pfizer lined up for 120 million doses.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

This whole thing reminds me of that bank run scene fro it's a Wonderful Life where George Bailey is trying to keep the S&L a float by funding it with his honeymoon money.  The first guy was like...hey I want all of my savings but thankfully everyone else had the decency to take out just what they needed. 

Basically...US is the first guy.

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=iPkJH6BT7dM[/youtube]

 

[Irvinecommuter]

The USA does not have a vaccine.  We bought a vaccine.  We are now standing in line with everybody else to buy more from a gloval corporation we incentivized to build it.

And ironically, with a 126 million population, Japan already has Pfizer lined up for 120 million doses.

Pfizer said it currently has millions of doses awaiting shipping instructions, defending the rollout of its COVID-19 vaccine Thursday, after Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said there have been hiccups.

?Pfizer is not having any production issues with our COVID-19 vaccine, and no shipments containing the vaccine are on hold or delayed," the company said in a statement Thursday.

"We have millions more doses sitting in our warehouse but, as of now, we have not received any shipment instructions for additional doses."

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-problems-millions-doses-warehouse

But hey...we got those water restriction shower heads out of the way!

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Anti-maskers are the biggest snowflakes

Five crew members have reportedly quit Mission: Impossible 7 filming after another rant by Hollywood star Tom Cruise, according to The Sun.

If I see you do it again you're f****ng gone,? Cruise can be heard saying in the audio.

"We are the gold standard. They're back there in Hollywood making movies right now because of us. Because they believe in us and what we're doing. I'm on the phone with every f****ng studio at night, insurance companies, producers and they're looking at us and using us to make their movies. We are creating thousands of jobs, you motherf***ers. I don't ever want to see it again. Ever!"

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment...mpossible-covid-rant-crew-quit-090334510.html

Tom Cruise basically speaks for everyone of us do whatever we can to stop this disease and see reckless individuals that are babies crying about how the Founding Fathers fought for their freedom not to wear a mask. 

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Hah... I think Tom Cruise is crazy but at least he has Covid safety right. Good on him for enforcing it.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Meanwhile...another self-indulgent arrogant Trumper using psudeoscience to justify his own arrogance. 

The former child star continued, ?I?m looking around in my community and I?m seeing the devastation and suffering of people whose businesses have been bankrupted, people dealing with anxiety, depression, suicide is spiking, the abused being quarantined with their abusers and I can?t just ignore that. I love my neighbors and so I want to give them hope.?

?Absolutely! People are just clamoring to come and be a part of them,? he said. ?This is the land of the free and home of the brave and there are thousands and thousands of people in our community who would rather not suffer in isolation and come out to sing and express their gratitude. Because we believe there is immunity in community but there is desolation in isolation and I want to give people hope.?

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment...-we-believe-immunity-community-180513750.html

They will be super hopeful when they or their family get COVID and people start going to the ICU and/or dying.

 

[sgip]

The Cruise "rant" is entirely justified. He's their employer. They should put it on a loop and play it at SCP or Irvine Spectrum.

Full disclosure: Soylent Yellow is a COVID monitor for film production in LA and thrilled with his "top down" message. I agree as well. 

 

[icey]

It's freaking sad Tom Cruise is the one who has to say this almost a year into the plague when an actual political leader could have stepped up and said it months ago.

The other posters said it better than I could have. This is one of America's worst moments of all time and let's hope we can  learn from it and work together and stop being a bunch of cry babies.

Too many think we are the same country that stepped the f up to beat two fascist regimes at the same time. We are not. No other country has the opportunities we get handed to us on a silver platter, but we squander them over and over again with stupid choices.

We need to prove we can do things in this country with hard work, values, and sacrifice and not just demand shit just because we showed up and we're special.

 

[eyephone]

The Cruise "rant" is entirely justified. He's their employer. They should put it on a loop and play it at SCP or Irvine Spectrum.

Full disclosure: Soylent Yellow is a COVID monitor for film production in LA and thrilled with his "top down" message. I agree as well.

So it is okay if Tom said it. But when a Democrat says it, then man they are using fear against people.

How can you agree with Tom Cruise regarding the mask and agree with Donald Trump no mask message?

 

[Irvinecommuter]

By the way..if the 3600 deaths a day in the US the 0% ICU capacity does not sway you...go look at the exchange rate for the USD against the New Taiwan Dollar, the Korean Won, the Australian Dollar, and the New Zealand Dollar.

USD trading at or near 5 year lows against all of them.

 

[nosuchreality]

Hey if it's your time, it's your time.

Don't blame the three martini lunchers for drunk driving deaths, it's just "their time".

Call people on it and they whine about cancel culture and ask why all the hate.

 

[nosuchreality]

Japan, covid deaths 2661.  Population 126.5 Million.
USA, covid deaths 311,010.  Population 328.2 Million.

328.2M/126.5M = 2.594

2661*2.594=6904 (rounded up)

311,010 -6,904=304,106


304,106 Unnecessary Deaths

Thank you non-mask wearers, mass gatherers and hoax believers!

It's okay I guess, it was "just their time"