Irvinecommuter
New member
For those who don't think the whole thing is a joke:
coronavirus
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I see similar narrative being touted on many conservative media outlets. But it's somewhat misleading. And conservatives have been touting America being first in the world for decades. Are we supposed to celebrate mediocrity all of a sudden now?
Why limit the comparison to the top 5 European nations? By setting the premise to 5 European nations, you get to include mega failures like Spain & Italy.
If you compared US to the other 9 top nations/economies in the world, there are about half that did way better than we did.
Even if you want to throw out China in the comparison, you still have #3 nation in the world - Japan, #4 nation in the world Germany, and our neighbor up north #10 nation in the world Canada that did way better than US.
Fatalism.
Realism is seeing and taking action.
Fatalism is seeing and doing nothing.
Many people do not trust data coming out of China, yet they trust data coming out of Russia? I am very skeptical of both.
Without Russia, the remaining 4 nations consist of 1 mega failure (Spain), 2 failures like US (France and UK), and 1 success (Germany)
We can keep comparing ourselves to bottom feeder countries like Spain & celebrate mediocrity. And ignore success / competent countries like Germany, Japan, and Canada.
It just makes very little sense to me, especially when more and more of our people are dying.
Pretending there is nothing to do has killed 300,000.
Japan did it, sadly 40% doesn't want to try.
They want to sit ina bar and have a beer.
Irvinecommuter
New member
Oh and since we are exposing politicians for hypocrisy...we need to do some for the rank and file as well
https://news.yahoo.com/california-police-department-held-superspreader-174041242.html
nosuchreality
Well-known member
3653 new deaths.
247,403 new cases
113,069 hospitalized
Ambulances parked waiting to unload at the ER because of no beds.
Nothing to see here, never mind more dying than 9/11 daily now.
247,403 new cases
113,069 hospitalized
Ambulances parked waiting to unload at the ER because of no beds.
Nothing to see here, never mind more dying than 9/11 daily now.
morekaos
Well-known member
For all the screaming and wrenching of robes...let me tell you, people are doing what they please...Went to the Huntington Beach boat parade last weekend (2 nights)...hundreds of boats, thousands on land. I live on an island that every Christmas is inundated with people from all over walking around looking at the lights on the canals..thousands every night (they walk right by my front door). That is with big lit signs at all the entrances that state, "residence only"...can't find any parking till well after 10PM on a Tuesday!. Went down to my dock last night around eight and there were dozens upon dozens of boats, SUP's, kayakers, you name it, on the water and hundreds on land walking. Haven't noticed any real change in traffic in the mornings or nights, people are going to work. Personally, I don't mind but like I said before, people have hit overload and just aren't paying attention (for better or worse) . It is what it is. Merry Christmas!
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
And people are dying in record numbers... ICUs are at capacity.
What will it take for people to follow safety protocols? Bodies in the street?
That's what's stupid about society, reactive instead of proactive.
What will it take for people to follow safety protocols? Bodies in the street?
That's what's stupid about society, reactive instead of proactive.
sgip
Well-known member
This may be a thread about how terrible things are in the United States, but for some perspective, whats going on in Europe?
Take the top 5 European nations listed you have a very near equal to the United States in population infections, and death counts. What's happening here in the land of the free and home of the brave, is the exact thing happening elsewhere.
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/geographical-distribution-2019-ncov-cases
Some considerations:
Only 5 European area nations are used for comparison. The United States is 50 individual states, each with their own plans and protocols.
Of the 5 comparative nations, Russia has it's own vaccine and has been using it longer than the US.
This is only to say that while it's bad that people are dying, and difficult to have limited hospital space, it would from statistics appear that no matter what you do, the death rate per population is the same across the spectrum. A very, very small group of nations are doing much better than the rest of us - if you trust the numbers (In China's case, I do not)
Even with the benefit of universal healthcare (all 5 European nations offer it to their citizens) the death rate compared to the US is nearly identical.
Could we do better? Perhaps. It's an unknown what would be required of our citizenry and if the results of these actions would yield any different results.
My .02c
Take the top 5 European nations listed you have a very near equal to the United States in population infections, and death counts. What's happening here in the land of the free and home of the brave, is the exact thing happening elsewhere.
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/geographical-distribution-2019-ncov-cases
Some considerations:
Only 5 European area nations are used for comparison. The United States is 50 individual states, each with their own plans and protocols.
Of the 5 comparative nations, Russia has it's own vaccine and has been using it longer than the US.
This is only to say that while it's bad that people are dying, and difficult to have limited hospital space, it would from statistics appear that no matter what you do, the death rate per population is the same across the spectrum. A very, very small group of nations are doing much better than the rest of us - if you trust the numbers (In China's case, I do not)
Even with the benefit of universal healthcare (all 5 European nations offer it to their citizens) the death rate compared to the US is nearly identical.
Could we do better? Perhaps. It's an unknown what would be required of our citizenry and if the results of these actions would yield any different results.
My .02c
sgip
Well-known member
On a separate note - a very interesting article on the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine effectiveness broken down by race and categories, and pre-existing conditions.
[url]https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-12-15/how-the-covid-19-vaccines-from-moderna-and-pfizer-compare-head-to-head[/url]
[url]https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-12-15/how-the-covid-19-vaccines-from-moderna-and-pfizer-compare-head-to-head[/url]
nosuchreality
Well-known member
What's happening in Europe is the same here, because in August and since, Europe behaved just like we did here. When August vacation rolled aeound, masks, social distancing wasvery neglected just like here.
nosuchreality
Well-known member
Fatalism, that's the problem.
The end is coming.
It is our choice, do another 100,000 to 200,000 die in the UsA before the end, you do we continue with the fatalism and have 4000 a day die and another half million die before the end.
We are 20,000 dead a week. There's frankly another 80,000 in the bag, probably 100,000.
The question is do we step up to slow it, or just say fuck it and let 100,000 die a month until late spring.
The end is coming.
It is our choice, do another 100,000 to 200,000 die in the UsA before the end, you do we continue with the fatalism and have 4000 a day die and another half million die before the end.
We are 20,000 dead a week. There's frankly another 80,000 in the bag, probably 100,000.
The question is do we step up to slow it, or just say fuck it and let 100,000 die a month until late spring.
Soylent Green Is People said:
I see similar narrative being touted on many conservative media outlets. But it's somewhat misleading. And conservatives have been touting America being first in the world for decades. Are we supposed to celebrate mediocrity all of a sudden now?
Why limit the comparison to the top 5 European nations? By setting the premise to 5 European nations, you get to include mega failures like Spain & Italy.
If you compared US to the other 9 top nations/economies in the world, there are about half that did way better than we did.
Even if you want to throw out China in the comparison, you still have #3 nation in the world - Japan, #4 nation in the world Germany, and our neighbor up north #10 nation in the world Canada that did way better than US.
nosuchreality
Well-known member
morekaos said:
Fatalism.
Realism is seeing and taking action.
Fatalism is seeing and doing nothing.
sgip
Well-known member
@Kenoko - The reason 5 European area countries were chosen in my example is because that's what the EU sourced data in the link had in their top line - Great Britain, Italy, France, Spain, and Russia. Canada doesn't have the same population density. Japan is a homogeneous culture and difficult to use on a comparative basis. These are some of the reasons why Cameroon, Saudi Arabia, or Ecuador isn't in that example. 380m population total in a 1st world (perhaps excluding West Virginia..... 
) , multicultural, limited border restriction countries all with about 300k deaths as we have here in the US.
Don't most flu bugs worsen in the Winter? Given the recent rise in cases, some of the increase has to be considered "seasonal" rather than "situational".
My .02c
) , multicultural, limited border restriction countries all with about 300k deaths as we have here in the US.Don't most flu bugs worsen in the Winter? Given the recent rise in cases, some of the increase has to be considered "seasonal" rather than "situational".
My .02c
Soylent Green Is People said:
Many people do not trust data coming out of China, yet they trust data coming out of Russia? I am very skeptical of both.
Without Russia, the remaining 4 nations consist of 1 mega failure (Spain), 2 failures like US (France and UK), and 1 success (Germany)
We can keep comparing ourselves to bottom feeder countries like Spain & celebrate mediocrity. And ignore success / competent countries like Germany, Japan, and Canada.
It just makes very little sense to me, especially when more and more of our people are dying.
nosuchreality
Well-known member
morekaos said:
Pretending there is nothing to do has killed 300,000.
Japan did it, sadly 40% doesn't want to try.
They want to sit ina bar and have a beer.