coronavirus

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Vaccine is only going to work in getting rid of the pandemic if enough people take it.

Right now we don't have enough people intending to take.

Me? I really don't want the PFE version. I know how things work in hospitals. I have no confidence AT ALL that the vaccine storage requirements are followed to the letter if multiple people are involved. I know how busy things get and how easy it is to forget something like putting things where they belong. I know for a fact that hospitals are required to check temperatures of every refrigerator every day and the week before JAMA comes magically those check sheets get signed and back dated for months and months even to the point of getting schedules out and making sure the people signing each date were working that day.

Getting THAT vaccine prevents me from getting a different one without the storage requirements of PFE. Maybe that PFE vaccine was stored right and maybe not. Maybe I get a vaccine that will work and maybe not.
 
I did think about the refrigeration requirements and wondered what the chances of what you said happening were.

I think I?ll wait for the Moderna vaccine :-)

 
I didn't have high confidence with Pfizer vaccine due to the deep cold (-70C) storage and logistics requirements.  My money is on MRNA and INO.

MRNA has the capacity to produce 500 million to 1 billion doses of vaccine in 2021, and US Gov has the option to buy 400 million doses for $16.50/dose.  The MRNA vaccine requires -20C for long term storage, but is good for a month in the refrigerator which should be sufficient for normal distribution.

INO-4800 vaccine has excellent thermo-stability.  The shelf life is >30 days @37C, >1 year @25C, and >5 years in a refrigerator.  They're the turtle in this race, but might possibly come out close to the rabbits.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Looks like parts of Asia are getting surges too (Japan and S. Korea)... so maybe no one is safe.
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True. I believe in South Korea the business close down at 9 pm. Almost like a curfew.

They still have a 14 day quarantine if you travel there. I think this is smart because it will catch people if they have covid. In the US, no quarantine if you fly here. (No mechanism to catch people with covid coming in.) There are airlines that require people to get covid tests before flying, but not all. Also, they do not deny that covid does not exist or is harmful like some people in the US.

I think they have shown that they can control covid until recently. Countries do not have money like the US to spend on covid. So they do the best what they have.
 
eyephone said:
irvinehomeowner said:
Looks like parts of Asia are getting surges too (Japan and S. Korea)... so maybe no one is safe.
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True. But in South Korea. I believe the business close down at 9 pm. Almost like a curfew.

They still have a 14 day quarantine if you travel there. I think this is smart because it will catch people if they have covid. In the US, no quarantine if you fly here. (No mechanism to catch people with covid coming in.) There are airlines that require people to get covid tests before flying, but not all.
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I think someone told me you can?t even fly to South Korea from the US right now. (For majority of the people. I think if you are in a high position like the Secretary of State they will let you in.)
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Looks like parts of Asia are getting surges too (Japan and S. Korea)... so maybe no one is safe.
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True.  A lot of it centers around nightclubs and restaurant areas.  Government responses in SK and Japan also a little different than ours.

SK is at 689 new cases (40K+ cases) and 8 new deaths (572 total) with a population of 51.6 million.

Calling the current wave a critical crisis, Prime Minister Chung Sye-kyun said he will dispatch around 800 military, police and government workers in every district of the greater Seoul area to help track down potential patients.

Frontline workers and medical staff are struggling each day to conduct endless epidemiological investigations, testing and securing insufficient beds, as the confirmed cases grow in various areas including the metropolitan Seoul area, Chung told a government meeting on Friday.
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https://news.yahoo.com/south-korea-reports-689-coronavirus-004119411.html


Japan is up to 3000 cases a day (172K cases) with 30-40 deaths (about 2400 deaths)...population pf 126.5 million

The Japanese government is tackling the latest surge in coronavirus infections with a "strong sense of crisis," Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga said Friday, adding that a rise in the number of severely ill patients has started to put a strain on hospitals.

"Protecting the lives and livelihoods of the people is the top priority of my administration," Suga said at a press conference, as he vowed to have a new stimulus package to deal with the fallout of the virus outbreak approved by his Cabinet next week.
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Taiwan, Singapore, Australia, NZ, and Vietnam still doing well. 

 
irvinehomeowner said:
Looks like parts of Asia are getting surges too (Japan and S. Korea)... so maybe no one is safe.
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Japan has a surge.  Population 126.5 million, 3x+ that of Cali.

New daily cases of Covid in this 3rd surge, 2733.  Yes, daily new cases haven't even crested 3000.  Yesterday Cali had 33,995.  They're running 1/30th our rate.

Thats the surge they take action on.
 
Irvinecommuter said:
morekaos said:
Like I said...

morekaos said:
We are just all going to get this...no matter how careful you think you are... >:D
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Still missing the whole public health angle.
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They accept no accountability just like their Dear Leader.

The USA has had more people die per captia in two days than Japan has lost this year.

That is the price of giving up, 275,000 unnecessary deaths.  That's difference between us and Japan.
 
When it comes to high-risk lifestyle choices, drugs and alcohol come to mind.

More than 67,300 Americans died from drug-involved overdose in 2018, including illicit drugs and prescription opioids.

DUI related annual deaths are even smaller number.

These choices negatively affect the risk-takers and others in the society that has nothing to with them or the substance in question.

We have tremendous laws and the whole complicated machinery in place to keep things in check, one could argue, in order to protect lives.

I see a lot of parallels between overdose/DUI and COVID-19, yet with such hugh death numbers there is absolutely no cohesion in the nation.  Covid safety practices are just a lifestyle issue, temporary inconvenience at that. It's a shame that people are making it out to be so much more than inconvenience.

with current number, 1 in 1000 or so American is dead because of COVID. When the numbers reach tenfold ( I serioulsy hope that it does not), 3M deaths, i guess people will wake up. At that point, every one of us will have known someone personally (neighbor, family, friend, coworker) that died of COVID. It will make it real.

There are few things we learn hard way in our life, unfortunately dealing with COVID is one of those.
 
I think the issue trying to contain covid is that it seems to impact the overall way of life. Drinking, drugs etc are very specific behaviors that generally don?t impact most people. There is also the element /perception of those issues being self inflicted.

With covid people are being told not to socialize, work from home, teach your kids at home, etc and then all of those things have ruined a lot of people?s lives (small businesses ruined, etc). Then you throw in the survival rate etc, combined with our inherent selfishness and it makes it incredibly hard in a lot of peoples minds to justify the shutdowns or whatever protocols have been put in place to curb the spread.

Ultimately for most people the cost-benefit of containing covid isn?t there. If the chances of dying were 50/50 vs a survival rate of 99%ish then it would be a different story
 
You said it right, most people are not seeing the cost-benefit in their favor. Back in March, there were lot of unknowns and we made decisions ranging from complete lockdowns to complete open.

Now that we know so much more about the situation, a collective middle of the ground response might be just what we need. Keep your job and business open, but violation of mandatory safety practices will come with consequences. I still feel that gatherings are not the way to go. We can survive few months without going to games, concerts, birthday parties and all.

The hospitalization rate has been consistent 3.5% of all positive cases. That rate is now dropping because the positive cases are just too many and the bed capacity is static. As the demand for beds soars, the threshold for admission rises with it. Put it another way, if 5000 COVID patiens were admitted on 11th OCT, the 5000 patients that get hospitalized today will be collectively in much worse shape than their 11th Oct counterpart.
Accordingly, you will see many more today's batch will die than the 11th oct batch.

Many of us have been there, when there is a big project milestone, we put in 70 hour work week, hit the date and chill after that. If that was year-round experience, most of will stop giving crap about the projects and stop putting heroic efforts. I feel that healthcare workers are way past that 70-hour workweek milestone for quite some time now.

That 99% survival rate can drop fast.
 
Everybody says they comply but few really are...I checked out several local beauty shops, they all covered all their windows but let customers in for cuts and treatments...

California?s health order falling on many deaf ears

Southern California oceanside city of Manhattan Beach, one arm of government is urging residents to stay home except for essential needs while another is encouraging them to get out and shop and even providing places where they can sit down to relax, eat takeout and watch the sun set over the Pacific.

It?s one example of confusing messages from governments as most of California is under a broad shutdown order that includes an overnight curfew to try to stem record-breaking coronavirus cases that threaten to overwhelm the hospital system.

While state and county health officials are pleading with residents to stay home and only mingle with those in their household, the order allows all retailers to remain open with 20% capacity and encourages people to get outside to exercise.
[url]https://apnews.com/article/business-california-coronavirus-pandemic-dccc64aadf2419d40ed1115aca8ca25a[/url]
 
Cornflakes said:
You said it right, most people are not seeing the cost-benefit in their favor. Back in March, there were lot of unknowns and we made decisions ranging from complete lockdowns to complete open.

Now that we know so much more about the situation, a collective middle of the ground response might be just what we need. Keep your job and business open, but violation of mandatory safety practices will come with consequences. I still feel that gatherings are not the way to go. We can survive few months without going to games, concerts, birthday parties and all.

The hospitalization rate has been consistent 3.5% of all positive cases. That rate is now dropping because the positive cases are just too many and the bed capacity is static. As the demand for beds soars, the threshold for admission rises with it. Put it another way, if 5000 COVID patiens were admitted on 11th OCT, the 5000 patients that get hospitalized today will be collectively in much worse shape than their 11th Oct counterpart.
Accordingly, you will see many more today's batch will die than the 11th oct batch.

Many of us have been there, when there is a big project milestone, we put in 70 hour work week, hit the date and chill after that. If that was year-round experience, most of will stop giving crap about the projects and stop putting heroic efforts. I feel that healthcare workers are way past that 70-hour workweek milestone for quite some time now.

That 99% survival rate can drop fast.
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You are correct we know more about covid. So we should know how to prevent from getting covid. Not just do same as before approach and Hope for the Best.
 
A top Trump appointee repeatedly urged top health officials to adopt a "herd immunity" approach to Covid-19 and allow millions of Americans to be infected by the virus, according to internal emails obtained by the House Oversight Committee and shared with POLITICO.

?There is no other way, we need to establish herd, and it only comes about allowing the non-high risk groups expose themselves to the virus. PERIOD," then-science adviser Paul Alexander wrote on July 4 to his boss, Health and Human Services assistant secretary for public affairs Michael Caputo, and six other senior officials.
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https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/16/trump-appointee-demanded-herd-immunity-strategy-446408

July 4th...goodness.
 
I sell components to refrigeration trailers.  I had an order from my customer since 2019 for these parts, and they have been dragging out this order for a long time due to covid.  Recently, the buyer asked to finish up the entire order.

I thought this was great! It must be for the Pfizer vaccine due to the need for cold transportation. 
But now I think it's really for the dead people that have now over flowed the hospital morgues.


But Hey! why not both.
 
zubs said:
I sell components to refrigeration trailers.  I had an order from my customer since 2019 for these parts, and they have been dragging out this order for a long time due to covid.  Recently, the buyer asked to finish up the entire order.

I thought this was great! It must be for the Pfizer vaccine due to the need for cold transportation. 
But now I think it's really for the dead people that have now over flowed the hospital morgues.


But Hey! why not both.
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Meanwhile, Mike Pence is speaking about the Trump administration is all about the sanctity of life.
 
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