coronavirus
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NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
So how would you solve this problem?
JIMHO, you handle the same same way you handle any other public health issue. Fines for the businesses with them occurring.
Your restaurant has rat feces everywhere and food stored improperly at unsafe temps? Here?s your closure notice until resolved.
Your employees don?t wear masks properly, here?s your closure notice until you complete retraining.
You allow customers to jeopardize your employees and other customers, here?s your closure notice until retrained and proper measures put in place.
Your bar has repeatedly served alcohol to patrons well past intoxication, they drunk drive and kill someone. You lose your liquor license and probably the civil lawsuits that will follow.
Your bar is serving under age kids alcohol, fines and loss of license.
Blow through a stop sign, if the cop sees you, here?s your ticket.
The precedent for addressing public safety is already everywhere.
You do not put protections in for businesses so they can?t be sued for unsafe conditions.
Stay home if you?re sick, stay home if you?re scared. Solved.
CDC definition of close contact is for 2 people to be within 6ft for at least 15 minutes. When most of you see a maskless guy in the grocery store you?re going to run the other way, so I don?t think you?ll be in ?close contact? with him or her.
Trust me you won?t get close enough to that maskless guy to inhale his droplets. Especially if he coughs you?ll stay 20ft away from him. If he walks by you and intentionally coughs on you then that?s just messed up and those type of idiots would probably take their mask off and cough on you anyhow.
Are you really that scared that you?re concerned about a random droplet of cough cloud that you might walk through and breath in from a guy you wouldn?t get anywhere close to?
Either strap on your N95 or stay home at that point. I support your freedom to do either.
You do realize close contact is for defining when you should isolate and quarantine from an exposure. Close contact basically is bad enough you are supposed to stay home to prevent further spread.
Lots of early cases identified from being on the bus or in the room with the choir.
Waterboy - how do you know you will not get close to the droplets in the air? It is like impossible to know where the guy went in the store unless you are looking at the cctv. That person does not need to cough to spread covid.
Your freedom argument is weak at best.
Do you wear a seatbelt? Do you smoke on a airplane or in a restaurant? (back in the day you were able to do this.)
How is riding on the front of the bus with a passenger in the rear of the bus infected different than walking around the grocery store?
When I go through the grocery, I repeatedly cross paths with the same people over and over. In the fresh produce section, over by the dairy, picking up eggs, at the meat counter, etc. So a 20-30 minute trip to the store has me chronically in proximity to several people plus the 100 that have been in the store in the last half hour recirculating their air.
There is a reason community spread counts for 40%+ of cases.
Healthline Article: Grocery Store Employees Face High Risk of COVID-19, What to Know
A new study out last month found that grocery store employees may be at higher risk for COVID-19 and may be more likely to have no symptoms.
The recent study, published in the BMJ journal Occupational & Environmental Medicine, researched 104 employees of one grocery store in Boston, Massachusetts last spring.
For the study, each employee was tested for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. One in five (21 out of 104) workers tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, which is the equivalent of 20 percent at that time. This was much higher than the prevalence of COVID-19 in the community at that time, which was 0.9?1.3 percent.
https://www.healthline.com/health-n...ees-face-high-risker-of-covid-19-what-to-know
Article published on 11/2/20
It?s spreading somewhere other than just close proximity.
The bus rider in China contact tracing is interesting. The carrier had lots of potential to spread but traced infections reduced to basically a four hour window on one day and hit multiple people on the bus (AC spread).
Restaurant studies and the choir study with 80+ people getting it. The choir isn?t all close proximity, it?s just highlights, exposure duration and proximity.
Then there is Sturgis and the protests.
Wash your hands, mask up, expect others to wear a mask, respect social spacing.
It?s like using sunblock spf 4 at the beach. Location, duration and behavior there determines if it?s high noon on a UV10+ summer day or a calmer spring day and you?ve got some shade.
We are in it together. I control my SPF and affect your UV index, you affect mine and control your SPF.
What we have for sunblock isn?t the greatest.
If people won't wear a mask, do you think they will stay home if they are sick? This doesn't solve anything in my opinion.
Not sure where you are going with this CDC reference. This isn't the only way coronavirus spreads.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
aquabliss said:
So how would you solve this problem?
nosuchreality
Well-known member
irvinehomeowner said:
JIMHO, you handle the same same way you handle any other public health issue. Fines for the businesses with them occurring.
Your restaurant has rat feces everywhere and food stored improperly at unsafe temps? Here?s your closure notice until resolved.
Your employees don?t wear masks properly, here?s your closure notice until you complete retraining.
You allow customers to jeopardize your employees and other customers, here?s your closure notice until retrained and proper measures put in place.
Your bar has repeatedly served alcohol to patrons well past intoxication, they drunk drive and kill someone. You lose your liquor license and probably the civil lawsuits that will follow.
Your bar is serving under age kids alcohol, fines and loss of license.
Blow through a stop sign, if the cop sees you, here?s your ticket.
The precedent for addressing public safety is already everywhere.
You do not put protections in for businesses so they can?t be sued for unsafe conditions.
aquabliss
Well-known member
irvinehomeowner said:
Stay home if you?re sick, stay home if you?re scared. Solved.
CDC definition of close contact is for 2 people to be within 6ft for at least 15 minutes. When most of you see a maskless guy in the grocery store you?re going to run the other way, so I don?t think you?ll be in ?close contact? with him or her.
aquabliss
Well-known member
eyephone said:
Trust me you won?t get close enough to that maskless guy to inhale his droplets. Especially if he coughs you?ll stay 20ft away from him. If he walks by you and intentionally coughs on you then that?s just messed up and those type of idiots would probably take their mask off and cough on you anyhow.
Are you really that scared that you?re concerned about a random droplet of cough cloud that you might walk through and breath in from a guy you wouldn?t get anywhere close to?
Either strap on your N95 or stay home at that point. I support your freedom to do either.
nosuchreality
Well-known member
aquabliss said:
You do realize close contact is for defining when you should isolate and quarantine from an exposure. Close contact basically is bad enough you are supposed to stay home to prevent further spread.
Lots of early cases identified from being on the bus or in the room with the choir.
aquabliss said:
Waterboy - how do you know you will not get close to the droplets in the air? It is like impossible to know where the guy went in the store unless you are looking at the cctv. That person does not need to cough to spread covid.
Your freedom argument is weak at best.
Do you wear a seatbelt? Do you smoke on a airplane or in a restaurant? (back in the day you were able to do this.)
nosuchreality
Well-known member
aquabliss said:
How is riding on the front of the bus with a passenger in the rear of the bus infected different than walking around the grocery store?
When I go through the grocery, I repeatedly cross paths with the same people over and over. In the fresh produce section, over by the dairy, picking up eggs, at the meat counter, etc. So a 20-30 minute trip to the store has me chronically in proximity to several people plus the 100 that have been in the store in the last half hour recirculating their air.
There is a reason community spread counts for 40%+ of cases.
qwerty
Well-known member
@NSR - so are you saying the virus is being spread at the grocery store? I figured if that a significant source of spread it would be known by now. I?m sure there are some transmissions, but I can?t imagine it?s significant. Same thing with the recycled air argument. If it was easily spread by recycled air everyone would have been infected at the grocery store, Costco, target, Walmart, Home Depot, etc.
qwerty said:
Healthline Article: Grocery Store Employees Face High Risk of COVID-19, What to Know
A new study out last month found that grocery store employees may be at higher risk for COVID-19 and may be more likely to have no symptoms.
The recent study, published in the BMJ journal Occupational & Environmental Medicine, researched 104 employees of one grocery store in Boston, Massachusetts last spring.
For the study, each employee was tested for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. One in five (21 out of 104) workers tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, which is the equivalent of 20 percent at that time. This was much higher than the prevalence of COVID-19 in the community at that time, which was 0.9?1.3 percent.
https://www.healthline.com/health-n...ees-face-high-risker-of-covid-19-what-to-know
Article published on 11/2/20
nosuchreality
Well-known member
qwerty said:
It?s spreading somewhere other than just close proximity.
The bus rider in China contact tracing is interesting. The carrier had lots of potential to spread but traced infections reduced to basically a four hour window on one day and hit multiple people on the bus (AC spread).
Restaurant studies and the choir study with 80+ people getting it. The choir isn?t all close proximity, it?s just highlights, exposure duration and proximity.
Then there is Sturgis and the protests.
Wash your hands, mask up, expect others to wear a mask, respect social spacing.
It?s like using sunblock spf 4 at the beach. Location, duration and behavior there determines if it?s high noon on a UV10+ summer day or a calmer spring day and you?ve got some shade.
We are in it together. I control my SPF and affect your UV index, you affect mine and control your SPF.
What we have for sunblock isn?t the greatest.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
aquabliss said:
If people won't wear a mask, do you think they will stay home if they are sick? This doesn't solve anything in my opinion.
Not sure where you are going with this CDC reference. This isn't the only way coronavirus spreads.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
We are in semi-lockdown again... we got our outdoor dining runs in this weekend and even took my kid to the barber before they close.
Stay safe everyone.
Stay safe everyone.