coronavirus
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Trust me... I am very concerned for the wellbeing of my family but that does not cut it for a public pandemic. Just like we cannot just have 60% vaccine rates for measles, mumps, polio, etc...we can't have 60% compliance.
I may be a careful driver and make sure my kids are buckled up but that doesn't mean that we should allow people to drive drunk/distract or at 150 mph.
Why is that person's desire not to wear mask more important than my desire to keep my kids and family safe and healthy? Is that person going to pay my medical bills if I get sick and have to go to the hospital?
Even under the law, one has no affirmative duty to protect another from harm but they certain have the duty not to create additional harm to me.
1) I never told you to delete your post. I suggest that you edit or delete false data/misrepresentation. Bearing false witness is no bueno.
2) What is it with you the communist countries? You think communist countries are the only ones that infringe on human rights and authoritarian?
People in Taiwan, Japan, SK, Australia, NZ etc. do what they do in part because they care about other people...go read the social media posts and YTubers from Taiwan talking about how it is important for everyone to wear mask so that COVID doesn't get out of control.
Taiwan never locked down...it did restrict travel and mandate quarantee for incoming travelers and those with symptoms/sick but most of Taiwan went on as usual...people were just convinced by a strong and coherent government that doing this is in the best interest. Taiwan govt didn't downplay it...they made it serious and people understood it as serious.
Their government didn't abandon them to the whims of private industries and the marketplace. It took actions to provide people with PPE and gave daily briefing from experts and scientists about the situation and what was being done. That is how you instill trust.
Isn't it up to the government to balance the rights of individuals...like drunk driving is bad?
Should a person be allowed to say that I should have the right to drink whenever I want and drive thereafter if I want to?
What about, hey I want to drive super fast so I should not have to obey the speed limit?
Seriously...you told me that you believe masks protect both the wearer and other people...how would not wearing a mask not increase harm to me?
Not to mention people not wearing masks are prolonging the pandemic that prevent me from doing what I want to do were we able to contain the pandemic?
What I've been saying might have sounded different than what you're saying, but if you look closely, that's not the case. We both are saying let's wear a mask and practice some distance with others. The only difference is I think that should be practiced voluntarily and you think it should be a mandatory.
Do you really think people in the US is not doing enough of wearing masks and staying home as much as people from Taiwan or Korea? Do you think people don't care about others as much here? What are the things we're doing wrong? Is it all Trump's fault?
Yes government can try to regulate safety matters. generally I have no issue with it because most of the things they do make sense, like you said, drunk driving. However, there is a difference between someone getting in a car drunk and crashing into a family and killing four people vs someone just going to the grocery store and getting charged with murder for just breathing.
Once the vaccines are fully rolled out and let?s say covid does go away. Will we continue the mask mandate for the flu to prevent old/at risk people from dying?
Clearly "voluntarily" does not work...it didn't in the red states where they are dealing with a huge outbreak...it didn't work in Sweden...it didn't work in Europe after they relaxed the restriction. You actually think that governors and government officials want to shut everything down? You think that Gavin Newsome likes being called out for being a hypocrite?
Yes..I do think people in the US are not doing enough...60 to 70 percent compliance is not sufficient. We don't live in bubbles...we cannot' just dome off California from other more less restrictive areas. The pattern of spread was exactly as predicted and yet you and other skeptics are like "what...people can't police themselves?"
I don't think it is all Trump's fault...I said that before but as the President of hte United STates...he is responsible for the welfare of the citizens of this country. He chose not to take on that responsibility and instead handed it off to governors to handle and then blame them for screwing it up.
I made this analogy before...if California and New York were invades by a foreign army or agents...would the proper response from the Federal government: "You know what California and New York...you handle it and we will totally back you up..."
When 9/11 happened, did the federal government go..hey Rudy/NYC you handle it? No...freaking FBI and NSA were at ground zero as soon as it was safe to be there trying to figure out what happened and how to stop it. In this case, the federal government knew the risks and issues and said "what me?"
That's is negligence, malpractice, ,and borderline criminal.
So you only following rules and laws that you agree with or make senses to you? Why can't the drunk driver say...hey I don't agree with drunk driving. Remember it is a crime to drive drunk..not that you have to kill someone while driving drunk.
Is anyone being charged with murder for not wearing a mask? I must have missed that criminal code section.
Why are you launching the parade of horribles when we are actually in the middle of a whole bucket of horrible already. Do you worry about the interest payments on your credit card when you have to take your kid to the hospital in the ER?
I shake my head at this all time...I mean people rather ascribe to that Taiwan is somehow communist or that East Asians are more compliant rather than believing the fact that masks and protocols work is just amazing to me.
Go research what Taiwan and Taiwanese people did before during and now and you see how a country can and should come together in a time of crisis.
I so want to go back to Taiwan or Korea...need to renew citizenships.
You can't do any of this unless people actually think there is a problem...you can't even get people to put on a piece of cloth on the face.
Irvinecommuter
New member
qwerty said:
Trust me... I am very concerned for the wellbeing of my family but that does not cut it for a public pandemic. Just like we cannot just have 60% vaccine rates for measles, mumps, polio, etc...we can't have 60% compliance.
I may be a careful driver and make sure my kids are buckled up but that doesn't mean that we should allow people to drive drunk/distract or at 150 mph.
Why is that person's desire not to wear mask more important than my desire to keep my kids and family safe and healthy? Is that person going to pay my medical bills if I get sick and have to go to the hospital?
Even under the law, one has no affirmative duty to protect another from harm but they certain have the duty not to create additional harm to me.
Irvinecommuter
New member
Mety said:
1) I never told you to delete your post. I suggest that you edit or delete false data/misrepresentation. Bearing false witness is no bueno.
2) What is it with you the communist countries? You think communist countries are the only ones that infringe on human rights and authoritarian?
People in Taiwan, Japan, SK, Australia, NZ etc. do what they do in part because they care about other people...go read the social media posts and YTubers from Taiwan talking about how it is important for everyone to wear mask so that COVID doesn't get out of control.
Taiwan never locked down...it did restrict travel and mandate quarantee for incoming travelers and those with symptoms/sick but most of Taiwan went on as usual...people were just convinced by a strong and coherent government that doing this is in the best interest. Taiwan govt didn't downplay it...they made it serious and people understood it as serious.
Their government didn't abandon them to the whims of private industries and the marketplace. It took actions to provide people with PPE and gave daily briefing from experts and scientists about the situation and what was being done. That is how you instill trust.
qwerty
Well-known member
That persons desire to not wear a mask is not more important than your desire to wear one. But your desire isn?t more important than theirs either. But you believe your desire is better than their desire.
How are they creating additional harm to you by not wearing a mask?
Just wear your mask, keep your distance and wash your hands and you will be fine.
How are they creating additional harm to you by not wearing a mask?
Just wear your mask, keep your distance and wash your hands and you will be fine.
Irvinecommuter
New member
qwerty said:
Isn't it up to the government to balance the rights of individuals...like drunk driving is bad?
Should a person be allowed to say that I should have the right to drink whenever I want and drive thereafter if I want to?
What about, hey I want to drive super fast so I should not have to obey the speed limit?
Seriously...you told me that you believe masks protect both the wearer and other people...how would not wearing a mask not increase harm to me?
Not to mention people not wearing masks are prolonging the pandemic that prevent me from doing what I want to do were we able to contain the pandemic?
@eyephone,
I encourage you go back from couple previous pages and read our conversations carefully. You misunderstood quite a bit of things and you'll find yourself trolling me like always. If you still think I attacked you and trolled this thread somehow, then all I can say is I didn't. It's up to you to decide what to think or believe. I'm really sorry. I don't think having any further conversations with you will help either of us. You keep getting me wrong and I might have hurt you trying to clear things up for you. BTW, I did graduate from a 4-year college and thankfully I didn't have to get a help from the government financially, but thanks for the concern if that's what was on your mind. Hope you were not trying to harass me or anything.
I encourage you go back from couple previous pages and read our conversations carefully. You misunderstood quite a bit of things and you'll find yourself trolling me like always. If you still think I attacked you and trolled this thread somehow, then all I can say is I didn't. It's up to you to decide what to think or believe. I'm really sorry. I don't think having any further conversations with you will help either of us. You keep getting me wrong and I might have hurt you trying to clear things up for you. BTW, I did graduate from a 4-year college and thankfully I didn't have to get a help from the government financially, but thanks for the concern if that's what was on your mind. Hope you were not trying to harass me or anything.
Irvinecommuter said:
What I've been saying might have sounded different than what you're saying, but if you look closely, that's not the case. We both are saying let's wear a mask and practice some distance with others. The only difference is I think that should be practiced voluntarily and you think it should be a mandatory.
Do you really think people in the US is not doing enough of wearing masks and staying home as much as people from Taiwan or Korea? Do you think people don't care about others as much here? What are the things we're doing wrong? Is it all Trump's fault?
qwerty
Well-known member
Irvinecommuter said:
Yes government can try to regulate safety matters. generally I have no issue with it because most of the things they do make sense, like you said, drunk driving. However, there is a difference between someone getting in a car drunk and crashing into a family and killing four people vs someone just going to the grocery store and getting charged with murder for just breathing.
Once the vaccines are fully rolled out and let?s say covid does go away. Will we continue the mask mandate for the flu to prevent old/at risk people from dying?
momopi
Well-known member
Though influenza and COVID-19 are technically different viruses, both can spread by breathing. Infected individuals generate infectious aerosols even when exhaling breath and talking. Washing hands and avoiding people with obvious symptoms (coughing, sneezing) does not eliminate the risk. Furthermore, the ventilation systems in smaller enclosed spaces (train cars, small restaurants, offices) may also contribute to spreading the virus.
What reduces the chance of infection and viral load is space and air flow. In outdoor area with some wind, the infectious aerosols would be blown and diluted to irrelevance. However this is not an option when you're riding in a packed train car, which is why many East Asians wear masks while commuting via mass transit. In Taiwan we also wear masks outside in the cities due to proximity of car exhaust and pollution.
Hopefully, COVID-19 will lead to redesign of ventilation systems on mass transit (trains/buses) and commercial properties (stores/offices). Carbon dioxide detectors can be installed to automatically adjust the air flow rate, so as the space becomes more crowded with people, the air flow rate is increased. This will lead to fewer COVID-19 and influenza infections.
What reduces the chance of infection and viral load is space and air flow. In outdoor area with some wind, the infectious aerosols would be blown and diluted to irrelevance. However this is not an option when you're riding in a packed train car, which is why many East Asians wear masks while commuting via mass transit. In Taiwan we also wear masks outside in the cities due to proximity of car exhaust and pollution.
Hopefully, COVID-19 will lead to redesign of ventilation systems on mass transit (trains/buses) and commercial properties (stores/offices). Carbon dioxide detectors can be installed to automatically adjust the air flow rate, so as the space becomes more crowded with people, the air flow rate is increased. This will lead to fewer COVID-19 and influenza infections.
The fact that TIers and Americans are still debating this 10 months into the pandemic really says a lot about us.
Does it really matter how we feel about it individually?
The more we whine about government infringing on our freedom the longer we will collectively suffer.
Can't believe so many people still do not understand it.
Keep whining
Does it really matter how we feel about it individually?
The more we whine about government infringing on our freedom the longer we will collectively suffer.
Can't believe so many people still do not understand it.
Keep whining
Irvinecommuter
New member
Mety said:
Clearly "voluntarily" does not work...it didn't in the red states where they are dealing with a huge outbreak...it didn't work in Sweden...it didn't work in Europe after they relaxed the restriction. You actually think that governors and government officials want to shut everything down? You think that Gavin Newsome likes being called out for being a hypocrite?
Yes..I do think people in the US are not doing enough...60 to 70 percent compliance is not sufficient. We don't live in bubbles...we cannot' just dome off California from other more less restrictive areas. The pattern of spread was exactly as predicted and yet you and other skeptics are like "what...people can't police themselves?"
I don't think it is all Trump's fault...I said that before but as the President of hte United STates...he is responsible for the welfare of the citizens of this country. He chose not to take on that responsibility and instead handed it off to governors to handle and then blame them for screwing it up.
I made this analogy before...if California and New York were invades by a foreign army or agents...would the proper response from the Federal government: "You know what California and New York...you handle it and we will totally back you up..."
When 9/11 happened, did the federal government go..hey Rudy/NYC you handle it? No...freaking FBI and NSA were at ground zero as soon as it was safe to be there trying to figure out what happened and how to stop it. In this case, the federal government knew the risks and issues and said "what me?"
That's is negligence, malpractice, ,and borderline criminal.
Irvinecommuter
New member
qwerty said:
So you only following rules and laws that you agree with or make senses to you? Why can't the drunk driver say...hey I don't agree with drunk driving. Remember it is a crime to drive drunk..not that you have to kill someone while driving drunk.
Is anyone being charged with murder for not wearing a mask? I must have missed that criminal code section.
Why are you launching the parade of horribles when we are actually in the middle of a whole bucket of horrible already. Do you worry about the interest payments on your credit card when you have to take your kid to the hospital in the ER?
Irvinecommuter
New member
Kenkoko said:
I shake my head at this all time...I mean people rather ascribe to that Taiwan is somehow communist or that East Asians are more compliant rather than believing the fact that masks and protocols work is just amazing to me.
Go research what Taiwan and Taiwanese people did before during and now and you see how a country can and should come together in a time of crisis.
Don Trump Jr. tests positive for COVID-19
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/don-trump-jr-tests-positive-for-covid-19
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/don-trump-jr-tests-positive-for-covid-19
Irvinecommuter
New member
Kenkoko said:
I so want to go back to Taiwan or Korea...need to renew citizenships.
Irvinecommuter
New member
momopi said:
You can't do any of this unless people actually think there is a problem...you can't even get people to put on a piece of cloth on the face.