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Fatality rates are so low that if just 40% of the population gets vaccinated that should get the job done. I won?t get it, there is an H1N1 vaccine... did you get one?
 
CA Judge Orders San Diego Strip Clubs To Reopen As Churches Fight For Same Right
https://www.dailywire.com/news/ca-j..._ajiMfREGPr9onQcBSV6zI9LY_89jS9I3rRu-oV8NGYAE

Let me get this straight. Due to the corona virus let's close down the churches where people can get emotional and spiritual healing, close down the fitness centers where one can reduce his stress and stay physically healthy, but let's open up the strip clubs?

Is it just me, or is there something wrong with this picture?
 
morekaos said:
Fatality rates are so low that if just 40% of the population gets vaccinated that should get the job done. I won?t get it, there is an H1N1 vaccine... did you get one?
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Fatality rate of 2.2 is not low...even at 40% of the population it is 2.6 million people.

The H1N1 that the vaccine treat is not current at pandemic levels...that's why last year's flu shot doesn't immune you from the flu forever.  The flu shot is generally tricky because it is unclear as to what the actual strain of flu that will be in season that year...scientists do their best to predict...sometimes it is a good prediction...sometimes it is okay prediction.
https://bsj.berkeley.edu/a-guessing-game-with-some-of-the-highest-stakes/

BTW...this is how we got COVID...so we have both the normal flu and COVID to deal with this year:

Antigenic shift on the other hand, is far more dangerous. Two combinations of different strains leads to an entirely new strain of flu, something that may have been initially harmless to humans. When exposed to a fresh population and brand new immune systems, an unfamiliar strain can cause global pandemics. Viral shift can create major killers, causing death rates to skyrocket in areas that are hit by the disease.
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Panda said:
CA Judge Orders San Diego Strip Clubs To Reopen As Churches Fight For Same Right
https://www.dailywire.com/news/ca-j..._ajiMfREGPr9onQcBSV6zI9LY_89jS9I3rRu-oV8NGYAE

Let me get this straight. Due to the corona virus let's close down the churches where people can get emotional and spiritual healing, close down the fitness centers where one can reduce his stress and stay physically healthy, but let's open up the strip clubs?

Is it just me, or is there something wrong with this picture?
Click to expand...

No one is opening it open...this one judge decided...the State of California certainly did not condone this. 

Also...your statement is flawed because people can worship without gathering at a church and can exercise outside of a gym.

BTW...John MacArthur won in superior court too...the ruling just got reversed at the appellate level.  I expect this to be similarly reversed.
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/202...in-newsom-california-over-church-restrictions
https://www.newsbreak.com/news/2042...es-judges-decision-in-favor-of-john-macarthur

2x BTW:  John MacArthur...another person who knows the truth but refuses to do the right thing
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-10-22/coronavirus-los-angeles-grace-community-church
https://www.latimes.com/california/...astor-mocks-covid-19-rules-church-members-ill

Defiance of safety measures is a ?foolish? thing to do, he said, that makes ?Christianity look anything but loving.? ?This is government law for the greater good of the population,? MacArthur said in a March 28 interview with a Grace staff pastor.

But within one month, his views began to change.

Soon, he was echoing the same arguments and hyperbole that Trump and conservative media have spread about the pandemic ? that the mainstream media have overhyped the pandemic; that not that many people have died and the data are wrong, and those who did succumb actually died from other illnesses; that it?s really just the flu ? and saying it?s all the government?s ploy to control Christians.

But in other settings, he said otherwise.

In late April during an interview with a church elder, MacArthur said that a young couple in the Spanish-language ministry had contracted the coronavirus and wound up in a hospital. ?It was such a virulent experience for them,? he said.
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Irvinecommuter said:
morekaos said:
Fatality rates are so low that if just 40% of the population gets vaccinated that should get the job done. I won?t get it, there is an H1N1 vaccine... did you get one?
Click to expand...

Fatality rate of 2.2 is not low...even at 40% of the population it is 2.6 million people.
Click to expand...

That low fatality misdirection has gotten a lot of people killed.  It will get a lot more people killed before that vaccines roll out.

It is reprehensible at this point.
 
That?s if you believe those infection numbers, I think they are significantly higher thus lowering that fatality rate. Regardless, 40% inoculation should reduce total population infection rates enough to take this off the front page. We will never be totally rid of it.
 
morekaos said:
That?s if you believe those infection numbers, I think they are significantly higher thus lowering that fatality rate. Regardless, 40% inoculation should reduce total population infection rates enough to take this off the front page. We will never be totally rid of it.
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Oh good..I guess we will just go on your feelings....tell me again why I should do that or why it should the basis for public policy?
 
Soylent Green Is People said:
"This isn't to say we can't adopt some of these methods and practices" - isn't do nothing. Not a defeatist or partisan view - just a realist's perspective.

When you have knuckleheads like Cuomo putting infected folks in assisted living homes (an undeniable fact) killing people as fast as a hot knife through butter, or a The Boy King enjoying his French Laundry dinner getting a case of the sads only because he was caught, or California legislators travelling to Hawaii when it's plain to all how dumb that decision is, doesn't leave me with very much hope for leaders of this kind making the right decisions.

At least we had Warp Speed with multiple private companies working on vaccine options, and a military plan to distribute the vaccine instead of a state by state variable approach. With both the NY and CA Governors saying they wouldn't take the vaccine unless it was independently verified by each state's science advisors instead of accepting the Federal review of the vaccine's safety, are these the kind of "leaders" capable of handling the pandemic response?

A realist would say "no", these aren't leaders capable of getting this or any other job right.
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I'll be going to Nevada to get the vaccine when it's ready.
 
Panda said:
CA Judge Orders San Diego Strip Clubs To Reopen As Churches Fight For Same Right
https://www.dailywire.com/news/ca-j..._ajiMfREGPr9onQcBSV6zI9LY_89jS9I3rRu-oV8NGYAE

Let me get this straight. Due to the corona virus let's close down the churches where people can get emotional and spiritual healing, close down the fitness centers where one can reduce his stress and stay physically healthy, but let's open up the strip clubs?

Is it just me, or is there something wrong with this picture?
Click to expand...

Because California. haha
 
I?ll take the vaccine. But I?m going to wait until a bunch of white people take it first :-)

USC - let me know when you take it so I can start the clock!
 
The truth is Covid death rate is less than 0.1% in California. Is that downplaying? Is that a Trumpster statement? Isn't that a good enough reason to open schools and businesses again? Isn't that a good enough reason for the places of worship to gather again?

Again, being careful like wearing masks, social distancing and etc. are all fine practices IMHO, but you should have your freedom to practice what you want to practice.

Closing down all businesses and putting curfews seem like overplaying to me. But that's just me. I reason with the truth I see which might be very different than the truth you see.
 
Mety said:
The truth is Covid death rate is less than 0.1% in California. Is that downplaying? Is that a Trumpster statement? Isn't that a good enough reason to open schools and businesses again? Isn't that a good enough reason for the places of worship to gather again?

Again, being careful like wearing masks, social distancing and etc. are all fine practices IMHO, but you should have your freedom to practice what you want to practice.

Closing down all businesses and putting curfews seem like overplaying to me. But that's just me. I reason with the truth I see which might be very different than the truth you see.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's lying math.

California covid cases 1,082,095
California covid deaths 18,554

Death rate 1.7%

But please keep trotting out the tired deaths divided by the total population or guesstimated real.number infected.
 
nosuchreality said:
Mety said:
The truth is Covid death rate is less than 0.1% in California. Is that downplaying? Is that a Trumpster statement? Isn't that a good enough reason to open schools and businesses again? Isn't that a good enough reason for the places of worship to gather again?

Again, being careful like wearing masks, social distancing and etc. are all fine practices IMHO, but you should have your freedom to practice what you want to practice.

Closing down all businesses and putting curfews seem like overplaying to me. But that's just me. I reason with the truth I see which might be very different than the truth you see.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's lying math.

California covid cases 1,082,095
California covid deaths 18,554

Death rate 1.7%

But please keep trotting out the tired deaths divided by the total population or guesstimated real.number infected.
Click to expand...

I see the rate has increased dramatically within a day. Thanks for the update.

While 18,664 deaths are a great number, I still think the percentage is not as big as to be put in curfews and etc. 
 
NSR - you are lying to yourself.  You are being naive if you are just taking the calculation you are doing at face value. I think it is a very reasonable assumption that the actual death rate is lower. Its pretty obvious to everyone that there have been more actual cases of covid that have not been identified that would decrease the death rate. That is supported by various antibody studies done. Now I would agree with you that anyone that tries to state the actual number is probably wrong but in general they are right that the true death is always going to be lower than the stated rate.
 
I've said this at the beginning but the death rate will always be an ambiguous number (see the coronavirus math thread).

The most important number is that total deaths is over 250k in the US and approaching 1.4m worldwide. That doesn't even include the number of people who have ongoing issues due to having Covid.

It's so easy to minimize the percentage until it's you or someone you know who has to go through a death or a difficult bout/recovery.

And remember, these numbers are with shelter-in and other protocols being used... imagine if it we just kept everything open.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
I've said this at the beginning but the death rate will always be an ambiguous number (see the coronavirus math thread).

The most important number is that total deaths is over 250k in the US and approaching 1.4m worldwide. That doesn't even include the number of people who have ongoing issues due to having Covid.

It's so easy to minimize the percentage until it's you or someone you know who has to go through a death or a difficult bout/recovery.

And remember, these numbers are with shelter-in and other protocols being used... imagine if it we just kept everything open.
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I think it would have been about the same.  Shutdowns have not been proven to be effective.

The Failed Experiment of Covid Lockdowns
New data suggest that social distancing and reopening haven?t determined the spread.

Six months into the Covid-19 pandemic, the U.S. has now carried out two large-scale experiments in public health?first, in March and April, the lockdown of the economy to arrest the spread of the virus, and second, since mid-April, the reopening of the economy. The results are in. Counterintuitive though it may be, statistical analysis shows that locking down the economy didn?t contain the disease?s spread and reopening it didn?t unleash a second wave of infections.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-failed-experiment-of-covid-lockdowns-11599000890
 
qwerty said:
NSR - you are lying to yourself.  You are being naive if you are just taking the calculation you are doing at face value. I think it is a very reasonable assumption that the actual death rate is lower. Its pretty obvious to everyone that there have been more actual cases of covid that have not been identified that would decrease the death rate. That is supported by various antibody studies done. Now I would agree with you that anyone that tries to state the actual number is probably wrong but in general they are right that the true death is always going to be lower than the stated rate.
Click to expand...

There is also a lot of studies showing that COVID deaths are probably undercounted by about 30+%...

Now, in the most updated count to date, researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have found that nearly 300,000 more people in the United States died from late January to early October this year compared the average number of people who died in recent years. Just two-thirds of those deaths were counted as Covid-19 fatalities, highlighting how the official U.S. death count ? now standing at about 220,000 ? is not fully inclusive.
Click to expand...
https://www.statnews.com/2020/10/20/cdc-data-excess-deaths-covid-19/
https://www.bu.edu/sph/2020/10/01/us-covid-deaths-may-be-undercounted-by-36-percent/

In fact, when we calculate flu death...it is really an approximately/estimate about what experts think flu virus did. 

From 2013-14 to 2018-19, the CDC reported yearly estimates of influenza deaths ranging from 23,000-61,000. However, the number of counted influenza deaths during those 2 seasons was 3448 and 15,620, respectively.
Click to expand...
https://www.contagionlive.com/view/why-comparing-flu-covid-19-severity-not-equivalent

There is little way to know what the "true" number of COVID death...certainly not while it is developing.  There will need to be a lot of analysis in the years to come.

Not to mention, COVID has a lot of long term effects that we do not know if it will be temporary of permanent.

However, new research is now suggesting that there may be long-term neurologic consequences in those who survive COVID infections, including more than seven million Americans and another 27 million people worldwide. Particularly troubling is increasing evidence that there may be mild ? but very real ? brain damage that occurs in many survivors, causing pervasive yet subtle cognitive, behavioral, and psychological problems.
Click to expand...
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-hidden-long-term-cognitive-effects-of-covid-2020100821133
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/you...ng-covid-could-face-long-lasting-impacts.html

 
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