coronavirus

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
irvinehomeowner said:
@IC:

Hard to compare past events to today. For 4 years we've been polarized as a nation and with Covid, that just added fuel to the fire.

When Pearl Harbor was attacked, most felt it was okay to get involved... when 9/11 happened, there weren't many political divides on enhancing security... but for some reason, the deadliest pandemic since 1918 has us split on what should be done.
Click to expand...

Actually...just before WW2...there was an extreme division as to whether the US should or should not get involved.  There was a very strong isolationalist group in the US who wanted the US to stay out of it.

Public opinion polling was still in its infancy as World War II approached, but surveys suggested the force of events in Europe in 1940 had a powerful impact on American ideas about the war. In January of that year, one poll found that 88% of Americans opposed the idea of declaring war against the Axis powers in Europe. As late as June, only 35% of Americans believed their government should risk war to help the British.
Click to expand...
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/great-debate

I know what you are saying, but belief systems and politics really get in the way with Covid.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree that we are polarized but whose fault is that that "belief systems and politics really get in the way with Covid"?  How is that that Fauchi...a guy who spent his entire life trying to protect the US from diseases and pandemic became a public enemy and needed security cause of death threats? 

Who started the idea that doctors/hospitals were profiteers and that everything will go away without doing anything? 

Trumpsters and GOP supporters say that we should not take Trump seriously and words are just words..but words matter.  The tone you set as the leader of the US matters.  If this was a corporation and Trump was the CEO...the things that he said and did in face of COVID would be borderline criminal.

I mean, a certain very smart accounting guy I know here (whose name rhymes with dirty) can't even understand the science of flattening the curve and mask protection... so what does that tell you?
Click to expand...
 

Actually, I don't think it's an inability to understand...it's a coping mechanism.  When humans have to deal with things that are too traumatic or difficult to handle....there is a tendency to ignore/deny.  It's the fallacy of having control...no different than people who stay in their homes during a fire or hurricane with the belief that 1) the fire is not that bad or too far way or 2) they can do something to stop it if it comes to their homes.   

Those same people see those who evacuated as chickens and are more likely to stay the next time there is an emergency...further emboldening their own delusional beliefs re control.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
@IC:

The US is just too big and diverse to do what you want.

We can't even find out who is our president. :)
Click to expand...

We know who the president is...we just have spoiled children empowered by a spoiled child president.

The more we empower spoiled children, the worse they become.  There are a lot of issues in this country that can be solved but half the people thrive in the chaos while the other say "nothing we can do about it". 

Why are we okay with the "it's just too big of an elephant" solution?  Are GOP/Trumpster basically giving up on the "American exceptionalism" now? 
 
eyephone said:
It is real news that Japan economy is fully opened. Stores, restaurants, bars, and the subway is packed. They do not have a problem with covid. So I guess the masks works. I think quarantine is a key factor that the US will be against. (for visitors) Same with tracing. But we are not at that point yet. Because we are in a sh7hole.

I have seen video that some business in Japan use plexiglass and some use clear thick plastic wrap by the counter. It may look cheap, but I guess it works. The streets looked packed. I would say economy running at 80% or more. (Like nothing happened.)

Same thing with Korea. It looks like normal, but they are wearing masks. The streets are packed and almost all business are OPEN.
Click to expand...

Also, I have seen video of malls/big department stores in Japan at full capacity. One thing that I find interesting is that people can smoke/vape in restaurants in Japan. They smoke a lot like it is candy.

I guess the other thing to consider is that the obesity rate is not high in Japan and Korea compared to the US. As they take the subway and walk a lot. The combination of obesity aka fatness does not work well fighting covid.
 
I also found out that in the Philippines in order for a person to get in a store/restaurant. You need to have a mask and a FACE SHIELD. (real real news, unbelievable but true!)
In addition, they fill out a small piece of paper for contact tracing purposes. I think maybe scanning your phone with a QR code might be more sufficient. (But I guess not everybody might not have cell phones and the cost of the scanner) Also, I would not want to touch a pen that a random person used. (I guess BYOP - bring your own pen )  ;)

Just reporting what different countries are doing relating to covid.
 
Tough to compare Taiwan to the US. Some reasons -

1) Demographically Taiwan is nearly uniform. The United States is not.[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Taiwan[/url]

2) The greatest "at risk" population tends to live with family, not clustered in Assisted Living facilities. https://www.agedcare.com.my/taiwans-elderly-care/

3) Taiwan has a very low poverty rate and a very low rate of homelessness https://borgenproject.org/what-you-need-to-know-about-homelessness-in-taiwan/

4) Taiwan has 13 Counties. The US has 50 states and multiple protectorates (Guam/Puerto Rico etc)

5) Taiwan practiced pandemic response protocals after H1N1 and SARS. The US did not.

6) Taiwan's population is more familiar with mask wearing. The US has a very steep learning curve on acceptance and use of masks.

Yes, the Taiwanese response to the Pandemic is a great model, but not one that could work here in the US at the velocity needed to curtail the spread of the virus. Taiwan's response wouldn't work in Egypt, Scotland, or Brazil, given how different their population, economy, and political structure.

This isn't to say we can't adopt some of these methods and practices, but given how the State of California treats the homelessness issue ALONE there's little hope for success here against COVID-19 to reach the same level as Taiwan's.

My .02c
 
But the do nothing approach is not working at all. We are swimming in a tub of sh7.
Tell your friends to stop spreading false info about covid. So we can get on track to do away with covid.

Soylent Green Is People said:
Tough to compare Taiwan to the US. Some reasons -

1) Demographically Taiwan is nearly uniform. The United States is not.[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Taiwan[/url]

2) The greatest "at risk" population tends to live with family, not clustered in Assisted Living facilities. https://www.agedcare.com.my/taiwans-elderly-care/

3) Taiwan has a very low poverty rate and a very low rate of homelessness https://borgenproject.org/what-you-need-to-know-about-homelessness-in-taiwan/

4) Taiwan has 13 Counties. The US has 50 states and multiple protectorates (Guam/Puerto Rico etc)

5) Taiwan practiced pandemic response protocals after H1N1 and SARS. The US did not.

6) Taiwan's population is more familiar with mask wearing. The US has a very steep learning curve on acceptance and use of masks.

Yes, the Taiwanese response to the Pandemic is a great model, but not one that could work here in the US at the velocity needed to curtail the spread of the virus. Taiwan's response wouldn't work in Egypt, Scotland, or Brazil, given how different their population, economy, and political structure.

This isn't to say we can't adopt some of these methods and practices, but given how the State of California treats the homelessness issue ALONE there's little hope for success here against COVID-19 to reach the same level as Taiwan's.

My .02c
Click to expand...
 
Soylent Green Is People said:
Tough to compare Taiwan to the US. Some reasons -

1) Demographically Taiwan is nearly uniform. The United States is not.[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Taiwan[/url]

2) The greatest "at risk" population tends to live with family, not clustered in Assisted Living facilities. https://www.agedcare.com.my/taiwans-elderly-care/

3) Taiwan has a very low poverty rate and a very low rate of homelessness https://borgenproject.org/what-you-need-to-know-about-homelessness-in-taiwan/

4) Taiwan has 13 Counties. The US has 50 states and multiple protectorates (Guam/Puerto Rico etc)

5) Taiwan practiced pandemic response protocals after H1N1 and SARS. The US did not.

6) Taiwan's population is more familiar with mask wearing. The US has a very steep learning curve on acceptance and use of masks.

Yes, the Taiwanese response to the Pandemic is a great model, but not one that could work here in the US at the velocity needed to curtail the spread of the virus. Taiwan's response wouldn't work in Egypt, Scotland, or Brazil, given how different their population, economy, and political structure.

This isn't to say we can't adopt some of these methods and practices, but given how the State of California treats the homelessness issue ALONE there's little hope for success here against COVID-19 to reach the same level as Taiwan's.

My .02c
Click to expand...

This is like the healthcare debate...we can't do anything like what they do elsewhere because it's too hard.  Weird that other country can figure out it.  We do not have to do exactly what Taiwan did but we can certain do a lot of it...it not be nearly as effective but it is a heck of a lot better what is happening now. 

Taiwan does have demographic benefits but it's not like the homeless are spreading the disease...it's largely people who ignore the science and engage in superspreader events. 

There are plenty of other countries who have done much better than the US including most of Asia, most of Africa, Australia, and NZ...they all had their own strategies that was localized to their country.

Why don't we deal with the things that we can deal with before throwing up our heads because we cannot control everything?

Seriously...when did people become so defeatists? 
 
No one is becoming defeatists.

That's why many of us emphasize what CAN be done.

For the things that CAN'T be done... we just do more of the CANs.

You don't need to be the size of Taiwan or have to have total control over the people like India... you just need everyone to get on the same page.

Safety protocols, testing and more safety and testing.

If you can't get Karen to wear a mask (apologies to anyone named Karen) how do you expect them to volunteer cell phone data or any type of tracking. So what's the next best thing? Exactly what is being done... limit exposure, movement, and socialization... but even that people don't listen to.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
No one is becoming defeatists.

That's why many of us emphasize what CAN be done.

For the things that CAN'T be done... we just do more of the CANs.

You don't need to be the size of Taiwan or have to have total control over the people like India... you just need everyone to get on the same page.

Safety protocols, testing and more safety and testing.

If you can't get Karen to wear a mask (apologies to anyone named Karen) how do you expect them to volunteer cell phone data or any type of tracking. So what's the next best thing? Exactly what is being done... limit exposure, movement, and socialization... but even that people don't listen to.
Click to expand...

Totally agree...my hope is the the new administration will right the ship. 
 
irvinehomeowner said:
No one is becoming defeatists.

That's why many of us emphasize what CAN be done.

For the things that CAN'T be done... we just do more of the CANs.

You don't need to be the size of Taiwan or have to have total control over the people like India... you just need everyone to get on the same page.

Safety protocols, testing and more safety and testing.

If you can't get Karen to wear a mask (apologies to anyone named Karen) how do you expect them to volunteer cell phone data or any type of tracking. So what's the next best thing? Exactly what is being done... limit exposure, movement, and socialization... but even that people don't listen to.
Click to expand...

This is why we are in a sh7hole. Do you think they believe in the covid? Majority of them do not believe exists. Lol

Also, I do not think contract tracing will work now in the US. The virus is too wide spread.

The problem is the misinformation that is out there. Covid is fake, masks is nothing, covid is just for the elections and it will go away.

As I previously mentioned, business are open in Japan and they are riding the packed subway, people are hanging out and chilling. It is unfortunate that the current government does not want anything to do with covid. Look at the White House. The safest place in the world is a covid hot spot. They have access to really rapid testing. Also, around 100 plus secret service agent are being quarantined or hospitalized or who knows what due to covid per recent news article. (unless people think that is fake lol)

 
"This isn't to say we can't adopt some of these methods and practices" - isn't do nothing. Not a defeatist or partisan view - just a realist's perspective.

When you have knuckleheads like Cuomo putting infected folks in assisted living homes (an undeniable fact) killing people as fast as a hot knife through butter, or a The Boy King enjoying his French Laundry dinner getting a case of the sads only because he was caught, or California legislators travelling to Hawaii when it's plain to all how dumb that decision is, doesn't leave me with very much hope for leaders of this kind making the right decisions.

At least we had Warp Speed with multiple private companies working on vaccine options, and a military plan to distribute the vaccine instead of a state by state variable approach. With both the NY and CA Governors saying they wouldn't take the vaccine unless it was independently verified by each state's science advisors instead of accepting the Federal review of the vaccine's safety, are these the kind of "leaders" capable of handling the pandemic response?

A realist would say "no", these aren't leaders capable of getting this or any other job right.
 
Again you are blaming Cuomo. But your friends are spreading fake news about covid. Even with a vaccine if they do not take it. (40 percent of America) The vaccine will be useless.

Soylent Green Is People said:
"This isn't to say we can't adopt some of these methods and practices" - isn't do nothing. Not a defeatist or partisan view - just a realist's perspective.

When you have knuckleheads like Cuomo putting infected folks in assisted living homes (an undeniable fact) killing people as fast as a hot knife through butter, or a The Boy King enjoying his French Laundry dinner getting a case of the sads only because he was caught, or California legislators travelling to Hawaii when it's plain to all how dumb that decision is, doesn't leave me with very much hope for leaders of this kind making the right decisions.

At least we had Warp Speed with multiple private companies working on vaccine options, and a military plan to distribute the vaccine instead of a state by state variable approach. With both the NY and CA Governors saying they wouldn't take the vaccine unless it was independently verified by each state's science advisors instead of accepting the Federal review of the vaccine's safety, are these the kind of "leaders" capable of handling the pandemic response?

A realist would say "no", these aren't leaders capable of getting this or any other job right.
Click to expand...
 
Soylent Green Is People said:
"This isn't to say we can't adopt some of these methods and practices" - isn't do nothing. Not a defeatist or partisan view - just a realist's perspective.

When you have knuckleheads like Cuomo putting infected folks in assisted living homes (an undeniable fact) killing people as fast as a hot knife through butter, or a The Boy King enjoying his French Laundry dinner getting a case of the sads only because he was caught, or California legislators travelling to Hawaii when it's plain to all how dumb that decision is, doesn't leave me with very much hope for leaders of this kind making the right decisions.

At least we had Warp Speed with multiple private companies working on vaccine options, and a military plan to distribute the vaccine instead of a state by state variable approach. With both the NY and CA Governors saying they wouldn't take the vaccine unless it was independently verified by each state's science advisors instead of accepting the Federal review of the vaccine's safety, are these the kind of "leaders" capable of handling the pandemic response?

A realist would say "no", these aren't leaders capable of getting this or any other job right.
Click to expand...

And yet there are examples from all over the world that strong coordinate centralize response to the COVID-19 virus saves lives and brings normality...but let's ignore that possibility here.

Cuomo and Newsome are not saints and they have done stupid things.  There is plenty of blame to go around but neither of them demonized the scientists, the experts, the healthcare professionals, and doctors/nurses, and the everyday people who is trying to do better. 

That is the fundamental problem here...just that this election charade...Trump is causing 20 to 30% of the population to fundamentally distrust everything for his own benefit.   

Again...I don't do things because politicians tell me to...I do it because the professions and people studying the very thing I am concerned about tell me to do it.  Yes you can be cynical but in the end, we all rely on experts and professionals to do their job so we can have a functioning society.  To undermine those basic guidelines and foundation for no reason other than ego is damaging our very society.

If a vaccine comes out and the FDA approves...I would assume that the state medical board/scientists would do similarly.  Weird that all the state rights people are now balking at the state double checking the federal government.

You can argue about the techniques or guideline but rely on science and experts was the common thread between those that have been relative successful in dealing with COVID than those who have not. 

You know who you don't see at COVID press conference in Taiwan, Japan, SK, Australia, NZ etc...the political people.  The ones on TV are the health officials and ministers...not presidents or vice presidents or private company CEOs.
 
So instead of moving forward and trying to defeat covid and move on with our lives. They blame Cuomo. So perfect!
They want to continue on the crap hole path. Is there goal to over take the 1918 flu death count? Hahah idk
 
I won?t get the vaccine, give it to the elderly and front line people. It?s not political, I never get the flu shot, neither does anyone in my immediate family. Just had my physical and my doctor is not getting it either. Says it?s a personal decision if you want to or not. Three doctors I know aren?t getting it either. Vaccinate those most at risk, my mom will get it and that is fine.
 
morekaos said:
I won?t get the vaccine, give it to the elderly and front line people. It?s not political, I never get the flu shot, neither does anyone in my immediate family. Just had my physical and my doctor is not getting it either. Says it?s a personal decision if you want to or not. Three doctors I know aren?t getting it either. Vaccinate those most at risk, my mom will get it and that is fine.
Click to expand...

You are talking about priority...yes the elderly and young should get it first but at some point...everyone needs to get it otherwise it loses its effectiveness. 

I hope that healthcare workers get the vaccine first...they are the soldiers of this war...they need as much protection as they can get.
 
eyephone said:
So instead of moving forward and trying to defeat covid and move on with our lives. They blame Cuomo. So perfect!
They want to continue on the crap hole path. Is there goal to over take the 1918 flu death count? Hahah idk
Click to expand...

The fundamental problem is that people don't see this as a traditional war..they see as something on the news that they don't understand so why bother. 

I always love people who were like...hey 98% of people who get it survive...2% death rate is 6.6 million people....6.6 million.  That's not even counting all the people who have long term effects from it.  It is just insane the level of callousness and selfishness that are being exhbited.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top