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NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
[quote author="awgee" date=1248940139]I am shaking my head in disbelief. If TIC controls pricing, did TIC make the price go down the last few years?

Do you understand that homebuilders in Irvine and TIC have to compete for buyers with everywhere else in Orange County, not just new homes, but all the existing homes for sale? What percentage of all the homes for sale does TIC control? Prices control TIC, not the other way around. TIC does not have a monopoly. You may be myopic and only see the Irvine new home market, but TIC can not afford to be. TIC has to compete.

I am amazed at how little some folks understand about supply and demand. Yeah, TIC controls the price of homes Irvine. How absolutely moronic.</blockquote>
I think everyone is going to the extremes here.



By the same token, you can't say that TIC has zero control over pricing. Again... I have to cite personal experience where the sales people at a new community had to get back to me because they had to clear pricing with TIC. Maybe they meant City of Irvine or maybe they were just playing games with me, but they said there were controls in place in regards to prices. They also said the same thing about phases, that TIC wouldn't let them release the next phase until they sold through most of homes in the current phase... regardless if a buyer was willing to purchase a certain model on a certain lot.



So who set the prices for Ivy? You don't think had *some* influence there?



And I do feel that TIC does have a monopoly of sorts since they are the ones who control much of the land in Irvine.



I don't think anyone feels they have absolute control... don't be so angry... did graph lend you his grouchy pants?
 
[quote author="reason" date=1248960423]Here we go. It's going around and around.



Scman, back to the coupons. My friend.</blockquote>
Check out the Roundtable coupons that went out today...they have coupon for a specialty personal pizza for $5 and $4 for one of their subs. I'm gonna have to try them out along with La Salsa.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1248959808][quote author="awgee" date=1248940139]I am shaking my head in disbelief. If TIC controls pricing, did TIC make the price go down the last few years?

Do you understand that homebuilders in Irvine and TIC have to compete for buyers with everywhere else in Orange County, not just new homes, but all the existing homes for sale? What percentage of all the homes for sale does TIC control? Prices control TIC, not the other way around. TIC does not have a monopoly. You may be myopic and only see the Irvine new home market, but TIC can not afford to be. TIC has to compete.

I am amazed at how little some folks understand about supply and demand. Yeah, TIC controls the price of homes Irvine. How absolutely moronic.</blockquote>
I think everyone is going to the extremes here.



By the same token, you can't say that TIC has zero control over pricing. Again... I have to cite personal experience where the sales people at a new community had to get back to me because they had to clear pricing with TIC. Maybe they meant City of Irvine or maybe they were just playing games with me, but they said there were controls in place in regards to prices. They also said the same thing about phases, that TIC wouldn't let them release the next phase until they sold through most of homes in the current phase... regardless if a buyer was willing to purchase a certain model on a certain lot.



So who set the prices for Ivy? You don't think had *some* influence there?



And I do feel that TIC does have a monopoly of sorts since they are the ones who control much of the land in Irvine.



I don't think anyone feels they have absolute control... don't be so angry... did graph lend you his grouchy pants?</blockquote>
Who decided whether or not you buy? TIC?

TIC has zero control over pricing.

Albertsons can put a price of $10.00 per pound for top sirloin. People can choose to buy it at that price or not. People can get their top sirloin elsewhere.

People can get their housing elsewhere. TIC has to compete for buyers.

TIC has zero control over pricing.

TIC has zero control over pricing.









Really, I understand that TIC has some influence on the price of housing in Irvine, after all, TIC owns all the undeveloped land in Irvine. But, the extreme needs voicing so that people can think instead of just necessarily believing some story told to them by a salesman about the deep, dark, big corporation controling prices, or believing TIC is controling the price of homes by not developing land. Gosh, think. Would you develop land if it was not profitable for you? Would you hold back land for developement if you could make a profit?
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1248981561][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1248959808][quote author="awgee" date=1248940139]I am shaking my head in disbelief. If TIC controls pricing, did TIC make the price go down the last few years?

Do you understand that homebuilders in Irvine and TIC have to compete for buyers with everywhere else in Orange County, not just new homes, but all the existing homes for sale? What percentage of all the homes for sale does TIC control? Prices control TIC, not the other way around. TIC does not have a monopoly. You may be myopic and only see the Irvine new home market, but TIC can not afford to be. TIC has to compete.

I am amazed at how little some folks understand about supply and demand. Yeah, TIC controls the price of homes Irvine. How absolutely moronic.</blockquote>
I think everyone is going to the extremes here.



By the same token, you can't say that TIC has zero control over pricing. Again... I have to cite personal experience where the sales people at a new community had to get back to me because they had to clear pricing with TIC. Maybe they meant City of Irvine or maybe they were just playing games with me, but they said there were controls in place in regards to prices. They also said the same thing about phases, that TIC wouldn't let them release the next phase until they sold through most of homes in the current phase... regardless if a buyer was willing to purchase a certain model on a certain lot.



So who set the prices for Ivy? You don't think had *some* influence there?



And I do feel that TIC does have a monopoly of sorts since they are the ones who control much of the land in Irvine.



I don't think anyone feels they have absolute control... don't be so angry... did graph lend you his grouchy pants?</blockquote>
Who decided whether or not you buy? TIC?

TIC has zero control over pricing.

Albertsons can put a price of $10.00 per pound for top sirloin. People can choose to buy it at that price or not. People can get their top sirloin elsewhere.

People can get their housing elsewhere. TIC has to compete for buyers.

TIC has zero control over pricing.

TIC has zero control over pricing.









Really, I understand that TIC has some influence on the price of housing in Irvine, after all, TIC owns all the undeveloped land in Irvine. But, the extreme needs voicing so that people can think instead of just necessarily believing some story told to them by a salesman about the deep, dark, big corporation controling prices, or believing TIC is controling the price of homes by not developing land. Gosh, think. Would you develop land if it was not profitable for you? Would you hold back land for developement if you could make a profit?</blockquote>


Yep. And someone mentioned something about the auto business earlier. I have several family members that (still) work in the auto manufacturing business. Every time there is a downturn in sales, the production is cut. The argument here is that they should just continue to manufacture and continue to cut the price. Sorry, you'll never be able to buy a Mercedes for the price of a Kia. I was sceptical and uninformed before I listened to Dan and understood everything he said. It makes perfect sense for TIC to protect their greatest asset, which is the ranch as a whole. They have done a great job of this by creating neighborhoods that have maintained their value over time thanks to the masterplan which has many, many facets. Sure the price is factored into things, how can it not be. But I took Dan for his word and now understand more about their vision. If you look all around you can see it in full force, just like the trail system that Dan spoke about. How could you not recognize that? But some will only choose to see them as the evil empire and will never see the forest for the trees.
 
[quote author="AZDavidPhx" date=1248918052]It doesn't look like everybody is so fond of Dan....



http://www.ocweekly.com/2000-11-02/features/31-scariest-people-in-oc/2



As mayor of Santa Ana in the 1980s, Young made a name for himself when he ordered that city's police department to roust the homeless from city parks; the city was successfully sued as a result.</blockquote>


Interesting. That was about the same period time Santana tried to enforce maximum housing density, which they also lost. Further, November of 2000? That's an old ass article, but the facts are the facts.



Random questions:



1. When mayor of Santa Ana in the 1980's, in what Santana neighborhood did Mr. Young live?

2. What is Mr. Young's perspective on the homeless shelter near VoC?

3. Did he encourage Gustavo Arrelano Lopez to flee Santana for that haven from all things Santana aka Irvine?
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1248981561][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1248959808][quote author="awgee" date=1248940139]I am shaking my head in disbelief. If TIC controls pricing, did TIC make the price go down the last few years?

Do you understand that homebuilders in Irvine and TIC have to compete for buyers with everywhere else in Orange County, not just new homes, but all the existing homes for sale? What percentage of all the homes for sale does TIC control? Prices control TIC, not the other way around. TIC does not have a monopoly. You may be myopic and only see the Irvine new home market, but TIC can not afford to be. TIC has to compete.

I am amazed at how little some folks understand about supply and demand. Yeah, TIC controls the price of homes Irvine. How absolutely moronic.</blockquote>
I think everyone is going to the extremes here.



By the same token, you can't say that TIC has zero control over pricing. Again... I have to cite personal experience where the sales people at a new community had to get back to me because they had to clear pricing with TIC. Maybe they meant City of Irvine or maybe they were just playing games with me, but they said there were controls in place in regards to prices. They also said the same thing about phases, that TIC wouldn't let them release the next phase until they sold through most of homes in the current phase... regardless if a buyer was willing to purchase a certain model on a certain lot.



So who set the prices for Ivy? You don't think had *some* influence there?



And I do feel that TIC does have a monopoly of sorts since they are the ones who control much of the land in Irvine.



I don't think anyone feels they have absolute control... don't be so angry... did graph lend you his grouchy pants?</blockquote>
Who decided whether or not you buy? TIC?

TIC has zero control over pricing.

Albertsons can put a price of $10.00 per pound for top sirloin. People can choose to buy it at that price or not. People can get their top sirloin elsewhere.

People can get their housing elsewhere. TIC has to compete for buyers.

TIC has zero control over pricing.

TIC has zero control over pricing.









Really, I understand that TIC has some influence on the price of housing in Irvine, after all, TIC owns all the undeveloped land in Irvine. But, the extreme needs voicing so that people can think instead of just necessarily believing some story told to them by a salesman about the deep, dark, big corporation controling prices, or believing TIC is controling the price of homes by not developing land. Gosh, think. <strong>Would you develop land if it was not profitable for you? Would you hold back land for developement if you could make a profit</strong>?</blockquote>


Awgee, I have been stating that. TIC as a company has all the rights to increase their bottom line. Which companies wouldn't. But while other communities in OC had to build out and see that prices dropped during market downturn. TIC has the leisure to control and stop productions. Hence, they avoided the price drop (to a certain degree). Anyways, this sounds like the old adage of which comes first, "The chicken or the egg". I do see that as we discuss this. I will agree <strong>to a certain degree</strong>: It's market driven and TIC driven.



But when it comes to local Irvine new homes pricing. I lean towards TIC driven. =) Ok, that's it. I am going to stop on this.
 
What is with all of this preeching and lecturing in regard to "name calling"? It's one thing to have an argument as follows:



Argument 1

------------------------

Person 1: You're a dick

Person 2: No, you're a dick

Person 1: Dick!

Person 2: Dick!



In which case, I would totally agree with you.



But that's entirely different than:



Argument 2

------------------------

Person 1: You're a dick because <reason>

Person 2: No, you're a dick because <reason>



The second scenario is perfectly acceptable because both people are presenting reasons that can be challenged whereas the first scenario is just plain ridiculous because neither party is presenting anything that can be argued.



Some of you are totally overdoing the whole "OoOOO name-calling OooOOO Teacher! Teacher!"



For some of you to start getting all indignant about the inclusion of a name and trying to discredit the person's reasoning/argument by attacking a harmless word rather than the reason along with it are doing nothing but changing the subject from the reason to the context of a word being used; diverting the argument from why the person is wrong and changing to why the person is morally inferior to you - basically creating a self-fulfilling prophecy and degenerating the entire conversation into a scenario 1. Good job.



You may want a more wussbag neutered down politically correct tone of language to make yourself feel civil and diplomatic like a Ben Franklin masterdebater, but it doesn't boil down to anything more than stroking your own personal ego.



If you don't like the inclusion of a name-call then instead say: "I don't think so-and-so is a Dick because <reason>". If your reason has any merit then people who read your reason may possibly agree with you. You stand a much better chance at persuasion than you do by putting on a robe, growing a white flowing beard, and screaming "sin!"
 
Slow your roll man!



I think "You're a dick!" is ok language and you dont have to give a reason. If your friends understand you and where you're coming from.



You're on a blog and you dont know these people, they dont know you. It's like walking into a new environment, you wouldnt go around calling people dicks would you?



You need to know the tone on this blog doesnt fit your last post. That's all!



[quote author="AZDavidPhx" date=1248993124]What is with all of this preeching and lecturing in regard to "name calling"? It's one thing to have an argument as follows:



Argument 1

------------------------

Person 1: You're a dick

Person 2: No, you're a dick

Person 1: Dick!

Person 2: Dick!



In which case, I would totally agree with you.



But that's entirely different than:



Argument 2

------------------------

Person 1: You're a dick because <reason>

Person 2: No, you're a dick because <reason>



The second scenario is perfectly acceptable because both people are presenting reasons that can be challenged whereas the first scenario is just plain ridiculous because neither party is presenting anything that can be argued.



Some of you are totally overdoing the whole "OoOOO name-calling OooOOO Teacher! Teacher!"



For some of you to start getting all indignant about the inclusion of a name and trying to discredit the person's reasoning/argument by attacking a harmless word rather than the reason along with it are doing nothing but changing the subject from the reason to the context of a word being used; diverting the argument from why the person is wrong and changing to why the person is morally inferior to you - basically creating a self-fulfilling prophecy and degenerating the entire conversation into a scenario 1. Good job.



You may want a more wussbag neutered down politically correct tone of language to make yourself feel civil and diplomatic like a Ben Franklin masterdebater, but it doesn't boil down to anything more than stroking your own personal ego.



If you don't like the inclusion of a name-call then instead say: "I don't think so-and-so is a Dick because <reason>". If your reason has any merit then people who read your reason may possibly agree with you. You stand a much better chance at persuasion than you do by putting on a robe, growing a white flowing beard, and screaming "sin!"</blockquote>
 
Ok, I guess I can say one more thing =). When debating, you are debating the issue. Not the person. When you resort to name calling than you are no longer discussing the issue at hand. "Name calling" is nothing more than a personal attack to distract the debate. It could be a tactic when you're losing. But I will agree with you on this. Some rather have a civilize discussion while other prefer "uncivilize". And I keep forgetting, you don't have to be civilize b/c you're behind a keyboard. Back to the ignore button.
 
The "name calling" is also a violation of the IHB nice policy. And the "nice" policy is exactly why I haven't had any comment to AZ Dave on this thread.



<a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewannounce/1702_19/">http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewannounce/1702_19/</a>



<blockquote>To all posters: please be nice to the newbies.



We are not a bubble blog. We are a blog about housing and real estate with a focus on residential housing in Irvine. We welcome all points of view to the discussion of that topic.







There is a general consensus among posters that we are entering a bear market in local real estate based on our analysis of current market conditions. However, these are just opinions, and they do not need to be shared by everyone who comes to this board. A board composed of people sharing the same opinions becomes an echo chamber where everything sounds the same. Preachers don?t win many converts when preaching to the choir. When people express opinions not shared by the consensus, we should listen and reply thoughtfully, not attack and condemn to drive away the heretics. If our consensus opinion is the correct one, the strength of our arguments will prevail.







Keep in mind that people have emotional needs concerning the value of their homes, and putting them on the defensive is a sure way to prevent them from listening to what you have to say.

</blockquote>
 
Egads. Sometimes I think this site is no place for a lady. <img src="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/images/smileys/embarrassed.gif" alt="" />
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1248981561][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1248959808]

By the same token, you can't say that TIC has zero control over pricing.</blockquote>
<strong>TIC has zero control over pricing.</strong>

Albertsons can put a price of $10.00 per pound for top sirloin. People can choose to buy it at that price or not. People can get their top sirloin elsewhere.

People can get their housing elsewhere. TIC has to compete for buyers.

<strong>TIC has zero control over pricing.

TIC has zero control over pricing.</strong>

</blockquote>
Man... you're just like my kid... I tell him he can't do something and he does it anyways just to see what I would do.



I think this is semantics. Your argument is at a macro economic scale which I understand.



But in your example, Albertson's does have control of their pricing. If people don't buy, they lower it. If people do buy, or it cost more for them to sell it at that lower price, they raise it. Sure, supply/demand principles and buyer preference influences pricing but if the next closest store is 15 minutes away and I'm in a hurry... or if Albertson's carries the best top sirloin I've ever tasted... I'll buy it.



You can argue that it wasn't really Albertson's who "controlled" that pricing, but it's the fact that Albertson's is able to recognize the factors that will cause people to purchase their top sirloin at a premium price so they can "control" what to price it at.



You keep saying that TIC has no monopoly and that people can get their housing elsewhere and that's not entirely true. If you want to buy a new home in Irvine... you will have to buy it from TIC. There are tons of threads on this forum that go into the sensible and non-sensible reasons for why people want to buy in Irvine... but I think you can recognize that Irvine has a captive audience somewhat. I joke about the FCBs but there is some truth to that demographic's inability to see anything other than buying in Irvine. It's why housing values dropped slower in Irvine than elsewhere. Can you explain why Ivy Phase 1 sold out so quickly when there are other brand new condo development units in other cities that have not?

<blockquote>

Really, I understand that TIC has some influence on the price of housing in Irvine, after all, TIC owns all the undeveloped land in Irvine.

</blockquote>
Heh... I'll take that as TIC doesn't have zero control of pricing. [insert sarcastic emoticon here]

<blockquote>

But, the extreme needs voicing so that people can think instead of just necessarily believing some story told to them by a salesman about the deep, dark, big corporation controling prices, or believing TIC is controling the price of homes by not developing land.

</blockquote>
Yeah... but what is there to think about? "Smart" buyers don't have a strong influence because the average uninformed buyer is more in "control".

<blockquote>

Gosh, think. Would you develop land if it was not profitable for you? Would you hold back land for developement if you could make a profit?</blockquote>
See... but isn't that "controlling prices" in a way?



I don't think anyone argues against this, like I said earlier... it's the amount of profit people are irritated at. It's just like those organic sellers who list their homes at WTF prices when they can very well make a good profit at market or below market pricing and move their house quicker. Does that organic seller have control of their pricing in a micro-economic way?
 
[quote author="reason" date=1248994586]Oh, and I find most computer programmers and IT guys are wacko, psychotic and have no social skills. Back to ignore mode.</blockquote>


Who? Winex and that quitter Nude?
 
[quote author="reason" date=1248994586]Oh, and I find most computer programmers and IT guys are wacko, psychotic and have no social skills. Back to ignore mode.</blockquote>
Hey... don't let a few bad apples spoil it for the rest of us. Cayci is an IT person too.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1248995725][quote author="reason" date=1248994586]Oh, and I find most computer programmers and IT guys are wacko, psychotic and have no social skills. Back to ignore mode.</blockquote>
Hey... don't let a few bad apples spoil it for the rest of us. Cayci is an IT person too.</blockquote>


a) I'm not a guy.

b) The premise has merit. I have a coworker who carries a knife around with him, and once upon a time when I was afraid for my personal safety he handed me his pepper spray to borrow for a while and proceeded to teach me how to use it. It was the object clipped to his pants at the time.

c) Comp folks often are forced to learn social skills to survive the workplace. Eventually the dorkiness from college wears off.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1248994683]The "name calling" is also a violation of the IHB nice policy.</blockquote>


I am going to take exception with this. What is "nice"? This is a completely subjective policy.



Some people are offended by blunt conversation whereas others are not.



"Nice" amounts to a protocol of expected behavior which can vary from person to person and how they read the words and imagine them in their minds.



If I were to say to you that Hitler was a wonderful human being, you would most likely construe that as not being nice, when I was actually being nice.



If I said to you that Hitler was a lunatic who should burn in hell, you would most likely construe that as being nice, when I was not being very nice.



So let's dispense with the whole charade of trying to assert our will upon one-another by dictating what is nice and what is not nice. Instead let's stick to figuring out why the other person may think one way versus another. Much more productive that way.
 
[quote author="reason" date=1248994586]Oh, and I find most computer programmers and IT guys are wacko, psychotic and have no social skills. Back to ignore mode.</blockquote>


This is the thing - I could not care less about these kinds of statements. You are free to do it all you want. I realize you are saying this tongue in cheeck and trying to make a point of some kind (not sure what the point was exactly), but knock yourself out - have a blast. I might respond and say that it is representative of a lot of the dumbass chatter and grabass that I see on the forums, but that's cool too.
 
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