Call Transcript

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
[quote author="reason" date=1248928978][quote author="Oxtail" date=1248928716]That's not really a fair argument. That's like saying GM is controlling the price of cars by massively cutting production when demand tanks.</blockquote>


Are we comparing the same thing? If we're talking about cars. Consumers might choose one over another due to qualities. When it comes to homes. Do consumers often choose the quality of one home over another? Do most consumers even know the quality of homes? Maybe Bk. But not many.</blockquote>


One more input. Unlike GM whom has to answer to investors. Hence, they don't have the power to stop production. TIC doesn't answer to anyone. Therefore, they can stop productions. Consequently, limiting the amount of new homes in Irvine. And limiting this supply will stop prices going downward during a slow market. Remember it's limiting supply in the city of Irvine. We're not talking about a national market. We're talking about a local market.



Bye, I have to go.
 
[quote author="reason" date=1248929998][quote author="reason" date=1248928978][quote author="Oxtail" date=1248928716]That's not really a fair argument. That's like saying GM is controlling the price of cars by massively cutting production when demand tanks.</blockquote>


Are we comparing the same thing? If we're talking about cars. Consumers might choose one over another due to qualities. When it comes to homes. Do consumers often choose the quality of one home over another? Do most consumers even know the quality of homes? Maybe Bk. But not many.</blockquote>


One more input. Unlike GM whom has to answer to investors. Hence, they don't have the power to stop production. TIC doesn't answer to anyone. Therefore, they can stop productions. Consequently, limiting the amount of new homes in Irvine. And limiting this supply will stop prices going downward during a slow market. Remember it's limiting supply in the city of Irvine. We're not talking about a national market. We're talking about a local market.



Bye, I have to go.</blockquote>


Here's another reason why you're not comparing apple to apple. TIC has a monopoly on new home productions in the local Irvine market. GM, on the other hand, does not have a monopoly in the national market. Big difference. It's like me comparing your oxtail to a dogtail.



I am running late.....bye.
 
I am also not convinced that TIC doesn't have some influence on pricing. I understand his argument that they are trying to "protect" the resale values and but the whole notion about stopping production because new homes were not selling is a bit misleading.



I have been told several times by builders that they need to get approval from TIC before they can accept below asking price offers on new homes. Whether or not that was a smokescreen, I don't know, but if they really wanted to move inventory, they could just lower all the pricing. Of course that's a double-edged sword because previous buyers will see better upgraded homes selling for less than what they paid but as far as I know, there are no buyer protection plans for real estate unless specifically stated by the builder. We are already seeing this now as prices are being lowered in PS and the new "lower" price points for Ivy in WE so I do think there was some "influence" in regards to inventory control.



I think the issue that most people here are having is that the TIC is profiting so much already and it would be nice if they would price new homes more reasonably. But like I mentioned earlier, this will cause problems because the bubble did inflate so much.



Does anyone recall if new homes built in Irvine in 96-2000 were much less than homes at the height of the bubble prior to that. My memory says "no" but I wasn't tracking home prices as much back then.



I think a better question to ask Dan was if he thought the current pricing was not in line compared to median incomes (wow... this is actually what AZDave was getting at) and if he thought the bubble overinflated what they currently think is "market pricing". And if he answered yes to either (which is doubtful), would they lead the way in trying to bring those prices back to affordability (and I don't mean "affordable housing")?
 
Companies that are successful are able to maneuver in the way they approach problems. They dont just stick to how they do things philosophy. That's why with the WBE pricing, I think it's a wait and see approach. They saw how the homes went fast at the price point, now they can maybe up it a little in the next phase.



If you take this to the "To protect the pricing" point, it's really not important. The important question TIC was asking when they stop building was, will we be able to sell the homes for what we want to sell them for? If not, let's wait till we can do so, because we can!



There's no doubt we all want home prices to be lower in Irvine, but it's a waste of time to harp on these points of how truthful Dan was. You need to know that polish personnel in the company speak on their behalf what they want to communicate as a whole. This has nothing to do with how the company operates day to day as people who have worked at large companies can attest to. It's public image and if you dont have one, then you're too small to be noticed.



[quote author="reason" date=1248929208]We have all seen the market took the prices of new homes downward in the last 2 years. It's just too much of a coincident that TIC stopped building the newer communities. If there was a market demand, why did they stop building? To protect the pricing.



Like I said, if truly the market control the prices of new homes in Irvine. Lets build them and allow the market to determine the prices. You really think the prices will go skyward?</blockquote>
 
[quote author="wilson" date=1248864225]I am very happy we have this outlet for opinions and information exchange - and very grateful to IR for the community he built and creating the place where this exchange can happen



<strong>One comment I have is...All of the talk about trailblazing and using new media...really? a conference call is new media? having people email and direct dial in questions is new media?



Is this 1998? Has anyone ever listened to an earnings call? has this not been going on for 5+ years? Flummoxed by the continued talk of how we were breaking ground from a technology persepctive by having this type of forum...</strong></blockquote>


I was thinking the exact same thing. I sit in the room during our earnings calls and see how the investor relations guy has the queue with all of the people in line to ask questions. I was trying to figure what was so trailblazing about the technology TIC was using. Maybe Dan is oldschool and this was the first time he used this? So maybe it was just trailblazing to him?
 
<blockquote></blockquote>This is not to say that TIC is wrong or right. Whatever they do is their rights as a business entity. But in reading the question posed by Larry with regards to whether TIC control the new homes pricing and Dan response was in essence, ?No, we don?t control pricing.? I would have to disagree with Dan. By not building out during the downturn, TIC did control pricing. Dan saying that there were 22 models available and no one bought them. Hence, Dan went on to say there was ?no market demand?. Therefore, TIC stopped building out. That is controlling pricing. How so? Had TIC kept building out, prices would have dropped. Just look at Stadium Lofts and Harbor Lofts in Anaheim; Santiago Lofts and City Place in Santa Ana; and Riverbend in Orange. All these projects had to continue building out during the market downturn. And the prices in these new communities have plummeted.



Again, I am not saying TIC controlling the supply side and pricing is wrong. But Dan should be more forthcoming in his response. Instead of a direct honest answer, Dan?s lenghty reply seemed like an attempt to blur the original question. I would rather he replied with, ?TIC is a business. We do look out for our bottom line. Just like any other businesses that want to survive in this trying time. And if controlling pricing is a way for us to survive. Yes, unfortunately, we do control pricing. It?s just good business.? <blockquote></blockquote>


So the fire sale that they had at Stadium Lofts or cutting prices drastically is because of strong demand? The examples you cited are examples of exactly why TIC halted or slowed development. They are in a very strong position to ride things out. Why wouldn't they? To all of those questioning them, wouldn't you do the same if you were in their position? I don't call this controlling the price, I call it smart business. And I'm not insulted when Dan calls it reacting to demand, because in the end, that's what really controls the market, not the price.
 
[quote author="qwerty" date=1248937292][quote author="wilson" date=1248864225]I am very happy we have this outlet for opinions and information exchange - and very grateful to IR for the community he built and creating the place where this exchange can happen



<strong>One comment I have is...All of the talk about trailblazing and using new media...really? a conference call is new media? having people email and direct dial in questions is new media?



Is this 1998? Has anyone ever listened to an earnings call? has this not been going on for 5+ years? Flummoxed by the continued talk of how we were breaking ground from a technology persepctive by having this type of forum...</strong></blockquote>


I was thinking the exact same thing. I sit in the room during our earnings calls and see how the investor relations guy has the queue with all of the people in line to ask questions. I was trying to figure what was so trailblazing about the technology TIC was using. Maybe Dan is oldschool and this was the first time he used this? So maybe it was just trailblazing to him?</blockquote>


I think he was talking about interacting with IHB as being the "new media", and not the technology of a conference call. At least that is my interpretation of what he meant "new media" was.
 
I am shaking my head in disbelief. If TIC controls pricing, did TIC make the price go down the last few years?

Do you understand that homebuilders in Irvine and TIC have to compete for buyers with everywhere else in Orange County, not just new homes, but all the existing homes for sale? What percentage of all the homes for sale does TIC control? Prices control TIC, not the other way around. TIC does not have a monopoly. You may be myopic and only see the Irvine new home market, but TIC can not afford to be. TIC has to compete.

I am amazed at how little some folks understand about supply and demand. Yeah, TIC controls the price of homes Irvine. How absolutely moronic.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1248940139]I am shaking my head in disbelief. If TIC controls pricing, did TIC make the price go down the last few years?

Do you understand that homebuilders in Irvine and TIC have to compete for buyers with everywhere else in Orange County, not just new homes, but all the existing homes for sale? What percentage of all the homes for sale does TIC control? Prices control TIC, not the other way around. TIC does not have a monopoly. You may be myopic and only see the Irvine new home market, but TIC can not afford to be. TIC has to compete.

I am amazed at how little some folks understand about supply and demand. Yeah, TIC controls the price of homes Irvine. How absolutely moronic.</blockquote>


Agreed. I was trying to quote from a post earlier in the thread and point out that TIC does not control price.
 
The novelty of buying new is big among Chinese. This may be TIC's wild card. However many recent resales are relatively new (less than 5 year old) will compete with the same pool of Chinese buyers.
 
[quote author="AZDavidPhx" date=1248918052]It doesn't look like everybody is so fond of Dan....



http://www.ocweekly.com/2000-11-02/features/31-scariest-people-in-oc/2



31 Scariest People in OC

Continued from page 1

Published on November 02, 2000



9. DAN YOUNG



Among the swine feeding at the Orange County trough, Young's face is one of the most familiar. He's a senior vice president at the Irvine Co., where his responsibilities include the company's Santiago Hills II development in east Orange. That project has managed to royally infuriate locals mostly because the company turned in an environmental-impact report of unusual crappiness. But pissing off residents is nothing new for the longtime political insider. As mayor of Santa Ana in the 1980s, Young made a name for himself when he ordered that city's police department to roust the homeless from city parks; the city was successfully sued as a result. After his stint in "public service," Young cashed in as one of the principals in the consulting firm Diamond Group, later put on retainer by?surprise!?the Irvine Co. In 1996, Young snagged an $80,000 no-bid contract during the bankruptcy aftermath to study "government restructuring." His conclusion: give more power to Irvine Co. stooge and county executive officer Jan Mittermeier. MITIGATING FACTOR: Doesn't drag his knuckles on the pavement when he walks.</blockquote>


Woah, this is who they sent to us?? What the hell. Although I do have to commend his vocabulary and his speech skills, I wish I could talk (and gracefully dodge questions) like Dan Young.
 
[quote author="The_Maestro" date=1248938212]<blockquote></blockquote>This is not to say that TIC is wrong or right. Whatever they do is their rights as a business entity. But in reading the question posed by Larry with regards to whether TIC control the new homes pricing and Dan response was in essence, ?No, we don?t control pricing.? I would have to disagree with Dan. By not building out during the downturn, TIC did control pricing. Dan saying that there were 22 models available and no one bought them. Hence, Dan went on to say there was ?no market demand?. Therefore, TIC stopped building out. That is controlling pricing. How so? Had TIC kept building out, prices would have dropped. Just look at Stadium Lofts and Harbor Lofts in Anaheim; Santiago Lofts and City Place in Santa Ana; and Riverbend in Orange. All these projects had to continue building out during the market downturn. And the prices in these new communities have plummeted.



Again, I am not saying TIC controlling the supply side and pricing is wrong. But Dan should be more forthcoming in his response. Instead of a direct honest answer, Dan?s lenghty reply seemed like an attempt to blur the original question. I would rather he replied with, ?TIC is a business. We do look out for our bottom line. Just like any other businesses that want to survive in this trying time. And if controlling pricing is a way for us to survive. Yes, unfortunately, we do control pricing. It?s just good business.? <blockquote></blockquote>


So the fire sale that they had at Stadium Lofts or cutting prices drastically is because of strong demand? The examples you cited are examples of exactly <strong>why TIC halted or slowed development</strong>. They are in a very strong position to ride things out. Why wouldn't they? To all of those questioning them, wouldn't you do the same if you were in their position? I don't call this controlling the price, I call it smart business. And I'm not insulted when Dan calls it reacting to demand, because in the end, that's what really controls the market, not the price.</blockquote>
 
[quote author="reason" date=1248957005][quote author="The_Maestro" date=1248938212]<blockquote></blockquote>This is not to say that TIC is wrong or right. Whatever they do is their rights as a business entity. But in reading the question posed by Larry with regards to whether TIC control the new homes pricing and Dan response was in essence, ?No, we don?t control pricing.? I would have to disagree with Dan. By not building out during the downturn, TIC did control pricing. Dan saying that there were 22 models available and no one bought them. Hence, Dan went on to say there was ?no market demand?. Therefore, TIC stopped building out. That is controlling pricing. How so? Had TIC kept building out, prices would have dropped. Just look at Stadium Lofts and Harbor Lofts in Anaheim; Santiago Lofts and City Place in Santa Ana; and Riverbend in Orange. All these projects had to continue building out during the market downturn. And the prices in these new communities have plummeted.



Again, I am not saying TIC controlling the supply side and pricing is wrong. But Dan should be more forthcoming in his response. Instead of a direct honest answer, Dan?s lenghty reply seemed like an attempt to blur the original question. I would rather he replied with, ?TIC is a business. We do look out for our bottom line. Just like any other businesses that want to survive in this trying time. And if controlling pricing is a way for us to survive. Yes, unfortunately, we do control pricing. It?s just good business.? <blockquote></blockquote>


So the fire sale that they had at Stadium Lofts or cutting prices drastically is because of strong demand? The examples you cited are examples of exactly <strong>why TIC halted or slowed development</strong>. They are in a very strong position to ride things out. Why wouldn't they? To all of those questioning them, wouldn't you do the same if you were in their position? I don't call this controlling the price, I call it smart business. And I'm not insulted when Dan calls it reacting to demand, because in the end, that's what really controls the market, not the price.</blockquote></blockquote>


OFF TOPIC



Did you get those new La Salsa coupons today? Which La Salsa should I be avoiding because I want to try them out?



BACK ON TOPIC
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1248944073]The novelty of buying new is big among Chinese. This may be TIC's wild card. However many recent resales are relatively new (less than 5 year old) will compete with the same pool of Chinese buyers.</blockquote>


I would have to say from experience that it is also very big among Koreans.
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1248957134][quote author="reason" date=1248957005][quote author="The_Maestro" date=1248938212]<blockquote></blockquote>This is not to say that TIC is wrong or right. Whatever they do is their rights as a business entity. But in reading the question posed by Larry with regards to whether TIC control the new homes pricing and Dan response was in essence, ?No, we don?t control pricing.? I would have to disagree with Dan. By not building out during the downturn, TIC did control pricing. Dan saying that there were 22 models available and no one bought them. Hence, Dan went on to say there was ?no market demand?. Therefore, TIC stopped building out. That is controlling pricing. How so? Had TIC kept building out, prices would have dropped. Just look at Stadium Lofts and Harbor Lofts in Anaheim; Santiago Lofts and City Place in Santa Ana; and Riverbend in Orange. All these projects had to continue building out during the market downturn. And the prices in these new communities have plummeted.



Again, I am not saying TIC controlling the supply side and pricing is wrong. But Dan should be more forthcoming in his response. Instead of a direct honest answer, Dan?s lenghty reply seemed like an attempt to blur the original question. I would rather he replied with, ?TIC is a business. We do look out for our bottom line. Just like any other businesses that want to survive in this trying time. And if controlling pricing is a way for us to survive. Yes, unfortunately, we do control pricing. It?s just good business.? <blockquote></blockquote>


So the fire sale that they had at Stadium Lofts or cutting prices drastically is because of strong demand? The examples you cited are examples of exactly <strong>why TIC halted or slowed development</strong>. They are in a very strong position to ride things out. Why wouldn't they? To all of those questioning them, wouldn't you do the same if you were in their position? I don't call this controlling the price, I call it smart business. And I'm not insulted when Dan calls it reacting to demand, because in the end, that's what really controls the market, not the price.</blockquote></blockquote>


OFF TOPIC



Did you get those new La Salsa coupons today? Which La Salsa should I be avoiding because I want to try them out?



BACK ON TOPIC</blockquote>


Now you see why I rather not debate. Too much of a hassle. There'll always be those who think they're right. And then there's always those who think others are wrong. It just goes in circle. Over and over.



But I do find it funny how some posters will stoop to name calling when they want to get their point across. But at the same time the same poster will not tolerate others to call him names. Furthermore, I find it shocking when an older person whom has kids. Then go online and call other people names. It makes me wonder what kind of respect of others, he's teaching his children.
 
[quote author="reason" date=1248957869][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1248957134][quote author="reason" date=1248957005][quote author="The_Maestro" date=1248938212]<blockquote></blockquote>This is not to say that TIC is wrong or right. Whatever they do is their rights as a business entity. But in reading the question posed by Larry with regards to whether TIC control the new homes pricing and Dan response was in essence, ?No, we don?t control pricing.? I would have to disagree with Dan. By not building out during the downturn, TIC did control pricing. Dan saying that there were 22 models available and no one bought them. Hence, Dan went on to say there was ?no market demand?. Therefore, TIC stopped building out. That is controlling pricing. How so? Had TIC kept building out, prices would have dropped. Just look at Stadium Lofts and Harbor Lofts in Anaheim; Santiago Lofts and City Place in Santa Ana; and Riverbend in Orange. All these projects had to continue building out during the market downturn. And the prices in these new communities have plummeted.



Again, I am not saying TIC controlling the supply side and pricing is wrong. But Dan should be more forthcoming in his response. Instead of a direct honest answer, Dan?s lenghty reply seemed like an attempt to blur the original question. I would rather he replied with, ?TIC is a business. We do look out for our bottom line. Just like any other businesses that want to survive in this trying time. And if controlling pricing is a way for us to survive. Yes, unfortunately, we do control pricing. It?s just good business.? <blockquote></blockquote>


So the fire sale that they had at Stadium Lofts or cutting prices drastically is because of strong demand? The examples you cited are examples of exactly <strong>why TIC halted or slowed development</strong>. They are in a very strong position to ride things out. Why wouldn't they? To all of those questioning them, wouldn't you do the same if you were in their position? I don't call this controlling the price, I call it smart business. And I'm not insulted when Dan calls it reacting to demand, because in the end, that's what really controls the market, not the price.</blockquote></blockquote>


OFF TOPIC



Did you get those new La Salsa coupons today? Which La Salsa should I be avoiding because I want to try them out?



BACK ON TOPIC</blockquote>


Now you see why I rather not debate. Too much of a hassle. There'll always be those who think they're right. And then there's always those who think others are wrong. It just goes in circle. Over and over.



But I do find it funny how some posters will stoop to name calling when they want to get their point across. But at the same time the same poster will not tolerate others to call him names. Furthermore, I find it shocking when an older person whom has kids. Then go online and call other people names. It makes me wonder what kind of respect of others, he's teaching his children.</blockquote>
You sure you read my post right???
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1248958445][quote author="reason" date=1248957869][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1248957134][quote author="reason" date=1248957005][quote author="The_Maestro" date=1248938212]<blockquote></blockquote>This is not to say that TIC is wrong or right. Whatever they do is their rights as a business entity. But in reading the question posed by Larry with regards to whether TIC control the new homes pricing and Dan response was in essence, ?No, we don?t control pricing.? I would have to disagree with Dan. By not building out during the downturn, TIC did control pricing. Dan saying that there were 22 models available and no one bought them. Hence, Dan went on to say there was ?no market demand?. Therefore, TIC stopped building out. That is controlling pricing. How so? Had TIC kept building out, prices would have dropped. Just look at Stadium Lofts and Harbor Lofts in Anaheim; Santiago Lofts and City Place in Santa Ana; and Riverbend in Orange. All these projects had to continue building out during the market downturn. And the prices in these new communities have plummeted.



Again, I am not saying TIC controlling the supply side and pricing is wrong. But Dan should be more forthcoming in his response. Instead of a direct honest answer, Dan?s lenghty reply seemed like an attempt to blur the original question. I would rather he replied with, ?TIC is a business. We do look out for our bottom line. Just like any other businesses that want to survive in this trying time. And if controlling pricing is a way for us to survive. Yes, unfortunately, we do control pricing. It?s just good business.? <blockquote></blockquote>


So the fire sale that they had at Stadium Lofts or cutting prices drastically is because of strong demand? The examples you cited are examples of exactly <strong>why TIC halted or slowed development</strong>. They are in a very strong position to ride things out. Why wouldn't they? To all of those questioning them, wouldn't you do the same if you were in their position? I don't call this controlling the price, I call it smart business. And I'm not insulted when Dan calls it reacting to demand, because in the end, that's what really controls the market, not the price.</blockquote></blockquote>


OFF TOPIC



Did you get those new La Salsa coupons today? Which La Salsa should I be avoiding because I want to try them out?



BACK ON TOPIC</blockquote>


Now you see why I rather not debate. Too much of a hassle. There'll always be those who think they're right. And then there's always those who think others are wrong. It just goes in circle. Over and over.



But I do find it funny how some posters will stoop to name calling when they want to get their point across. But at the same time the same poster will not tolerate others to call him names. Furthermore, I find it shocking when an older person whom has kids. Then go online and call other people names. It makes me wonder what kind of respect of others, he's teaching his children.</blockquote>
You sure you read my post right???</blockquote>


Yes, SCman. I was referring to certain individuals who has an inclination to insult others while trying to get his/her point across. I suppose they didn't take debating courses. Again, I expect such behaviors from a youngster. But not from an older person. Oh, well.
 
[quote author="reason" date=1248958736][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1248958445][quote author="reason" date=1248957869][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1248957134][quote author="reason" date=1248957005][quote author="The_Maestro" date=1248938212]<blockquote></blockquote>This is not to say that TIC is wrong or right. Whatever they do is their rights as a business entity. But in reading the question posed by Larry with regards to whether TIC control the new homes pricing and Dan response was in essence, ?No, we don?t control pricing.? I would have to disagree with Dan. By not building out during the downturn, TIC did control pricing. Dan saying that there were 22 models available and no one bought them. Hence, Dan went on to say there was ?no market demand?. Therefore, TIC stopped building out. That is controlling pricing. How so? Had TIC kept building out, prices would have dropped. Just look at Stadium Lofts and Harbor Lofts in Anaheim; Santiago Lofts and City Place in Santa Ana; and Riverbend in Orange. All these projects had to continue building out during the market downturn. And the prices in these new communities have plummeted.



Again, I am not saying TIC controlling the supply side and pricing is wrong. But Dan should be more forthcoming in his response. Instead of a direct honest answer, Dan?s lenghty reply seemed like an attempt to blur the original question. I would rather he replied with, ?TIC is a business. We do look out for our bottom line. Just like any other businesses that want to survive in this trying time. And if controlling pricing is a way for us to survive. Yes, unfortunately, we do control pricing. It?s just good business.? <blockquote></blockquote>


So the fire sale that they had at Stadium Lofts or cutting prices drastically is because of strong demand? The examples you cited are examples of exactly <strong>why TIC halted or slowed development</strong>. They are in a very strong position to ride things out. Why wouldn't they? To all of those questioning them, wouldn't you do the same if you were in their position? I don't call this controlling the price, I call it smart business. And I'm not insulted when Dan calls it reacting to demand, because in the end, that's what really controls the market, not the price.</blockquote></blockquote>


OFF TOPIC



Did you get those new La Salsa coupons today? Which La Salsa should I be avoiding because I want to try them out?



BACK ON TOPIC</blockquote>


Now you see why I rather not debate. Too much of a hassle. There'll always be those who think they're right. And then there's always those who think others are wrong. It just goes in circle. Over and over.



But I do find it funny how some posters will stoop to name calling when they want to get their point across. But at the same time the same poster will not tolerate others to call him names. Furthermore, I find it shocking when an older person whom has kids. Then go online and call other people names. It makes me wonder what kind of respect of others, he's teaching his children.</blockquote>
You sure you read my post right???</blockquote>


Yes, SCman. I was referring to certain individuals who has an inclination to insult others while trying to get his/her point across. I suppose they didn't take debating courses. Again, I expect such behaviors from a youngster. But not from an older person. Oh, well.</blockquote>
Don't let those folks get to you my coupon clipping brother. haha Water off a duck's back, water off a duck's back.
 
[quote author="reason" date=1248959415]What the heck. I have never heard of that saying before: "Water off a duck's back"?</blockquote>
Haha Just another roundabout way of saying to have thick skin and let the negative bs just roll off you like water. My grandpa taught me to turn negative energy into positive energy because life is too short to deal with all the negative stuff you encounter in life.
 
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