Veterans Cemetery coming to Irvine

[jmoney74]

If that quote from Shea is true, she can only be a bigger moron that once feared. To say

"We have hundreds of residents that spent up to a million dollars and more for their homes, and they have a right to their opinion, as do our Veterans"

while true, cannot be put on the same scale as someone who spent their life in the defense of this country.

Interesting perspective - again if true - on this persons priorities.

My .02c

She didnt say that your comments are not true either.  Everyone has a right to opinion and she clearly states just that. She didn't mention anything else about vets who have served their "entire" lives.

 

[Irvine Dream]

She didnt say that your comments are not true either.  Everyone has a right to opinion and she clearly states just that. She didn't mention anything else about vets who have served their "entire" lives.

It is BS to think that everyone has a right to their opinion.  If that is the case slavery might still be legal, women wouldn't still be able to vote etc. 

 

[eyephone]

@TCCC, come out and voice your thoughts why cemetery should be in great park.  This gives us a chance to listen your thoughts and give you a chance to listen our thoughts.  any thoughts are welcome.

So, any thoughts are welcome... but only if they are Chinese.

Here is what happened tonight at the meeting according to the vets:

We only wanted to dialog, but were turned away at the door. "Private party rental' we were told. Chinese only.
Source

there were another races there too including american.  unfortunately, there were no mexiCANT.  again, calling out qwerty....

He didn't show up, because you didn't pay the appearance fee. 

 

[OC troll]

Curious, if this effort becomes futile, what are the options?
1) Sell and run for the hills...Orchard Hills? Or some other Irvine development.
2) Stay and just deal with it? (property values may hold steady...isn't there a Veteran's Cemetery in Westwood?)
3) Rent out your place and move to some other development?
4) Other option...(fill in the blank)?

 

[The Motor Court Company]

there is an old Chinese saying which English translation is "There is neither lowliness nor nobleness in careers"

how much more recognition or entitlements we still need to give to the veterans? they have VA hospital, VA discount, VA loans, VA holidays, VA memorials...

the residents are only against the cemetery of any kind, but they are willing to compromise and settle for a memorial or monument instead in order to honor the Veterans and the heritage of the Great park/El Toro base.

Even though I am warming up to the idea of veterans cemetery, it is pretty clear the residents are against the cemetery, not against Veterans, yet the Veterans are turning this into an anti-Chinese agenda because they don't get whatever they want?

should we just bend over and give whatever demands veterans want?

 

[Irvinecommuter]

there is an old Chinese saying which English translation is "There is neither lowliness nor nobleness in careers"

how much more recognition or entitlements we still need to give to the veterans? they have VA hospital, VA discount, VA loans, VA holidays, VA memorials...

the residents are only against the cemetery of any kind, but they are willing to compromise and settle for a memorial or monument instead in order to honor the Veterans and the heritage of the Great park/El Toro base.

Even though I am warming up to the idea of veterans cemetery, it is pretty clear the residents are against the cemetery, not against Veterans, yet the Veterans are turning this into an anti-Chinese agenda because they don't get whatever they want?

should we just bend over and give whatever demands veterans want?

I think veteran deserves everything they have received and more.  But I do agree that there is no reason to make it personal.  It is reasonable for people to want to venerate veterans who fought for this county.  Similarly, it is reasonable for people to hold beliefs and hold true to those beliefs.  The issue here is that the belief system at issue is not the majority opinion and thus get swept under the rug as nonsense.

Just make this about the ideas, not the people.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

She didnt say that your comments are not true either.  Everyone has a right to opinion and she clearly states just that. She didn't mention anything else about vets who have served their "entire" lives.

It is BS to think that everyone has a right to their opinion.  If that is the case slavery might still be legal, women wouldn't still be able to vote etc.

Everyone has a right to an opinion...you just don't have to agree to it. 

 

[iacrenter]

Veterans aren't stupid. They understand their political power and will push their agenda.

The money is on the anti cemetery side but the politics favor the veterans.

It is easy to PR spin for the veterans group:
"Selfish Rich NIMBY Foreign Irvinites fight patriotic American Veterans over their final resting place" 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Veterans aren't stupid. They understand their political power and will push their agenda.

The money is on the anti cemetery side but the politics favor the veterans.

It is easy to PR spin for the veterans group:
"Selfish Rich NIMBY Foreign Irvinites fight patriotic American Veterans over their final resting place" 

Yup.  NIMBY is already a tough argument...NIMBY vs veterans is like a snowball vs. a volcano.

 

[yaliu07]

there is an old Chinese saying which English translation is "There is neither lowliness nor nobleness in careers"

how much more recognition or entitlements we still need to give to the veterans? they have VA hospital, VA discount, VA loans, VA holidays, VA memorials...

the residents are only against the cemetery of any kind, but they are willing to compromise and settle for a memorial or monument instead in order to honor the Veterans and the heritage of the Great park/El Toro base.

Even though I am warming up to the idea of veterans cemetery, it is pretty clear the residents are against the cemetery, not against Veterans, yet the Veterans are turning this into an anti-Chinese agenda because they don't get whatever they want?

should we just bend over and give whatever demands veterans want?

I think veteran deserves everything they have received and more.  But I do agree that there is no reason to make it personal.  It is reasonable for people to want to venerate veterans who fought for this county.  Similarly, it is reasonable for people to hold beliefs and hold true to those beliefs.  The issue here is that the belief system at issue is not the majority opinion and thus get swept under the rug as nonsense.

Just make this about the ideas, not the people.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-veteran-dies-in-hospital-20140703-story.html

i dont see anybody come out and say "i am willing to pay more tax, so we can build more VA hospital or hire more VA doctor"...

 

[eyephone]

there is an old Chinese saying which English translation is "There is neither lowliness nor nobleness in careers"

how much more recognition or entitlements we still need to give to the veterans? they have VA hospital, VA discount, VA loans, VA holidays, VA memorials...

the residents are only against the cemetery of any kind, but they are willing to compromise and settle for a memorial or monument instead in order to honor the Veterans and the heritage of the Great park/El Toro base.

Even though I am warming up to the idea of veterans cemetery, it is pretty clear the residents are against the cemetery, not against Veterans, yet the Veterans are turning this into an anti-Chinese agenda because they don't get whatever they want?

should we just bend over and give whatever demands veterans want?

I think veteran deserves everything they have received and more.  But I do agree that there is no reason to make it personal.  It is reasonable for people to want to venerate veterans who fought for this county.  Similarly, it is reasonable for people to hold beliefs and hold true to those beliefs.  The issue here is that the belief system at issue is not the majority opinion and thus get swept under the rug as nonsense.

Just make this about the ideas, not the people.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-veteran-dies-in-hospital-20140703-story.html

i dont see anybody come out and say "i am willing to pay more tax, so we can build more VA hospital"...

You just indirectly did.  ;D

 

[Irvinecommuter]

there is an old Chinese saying which English translation is "There is neither lowliness nor nobleness in careers"

how much more recognition or entitlements we still need to give to the veterans? they have VA hospital, VA discount, VA loans, VA holidays, VA memorials...

the residents are only against the cemetery of any kind, but they are willing to compromise and settle for a memorial or monument instead in order to honor the Veterans and the heritage of the Great park/El Toro base.

Even though I am warming up to the idea of veterans cemetery, it is pretty clear the residents are against the cemetery, not against Veterans, yet the Veterans are turning this into an anti-Chinese agenda because they don't get whatever they want?

should we just bend over and give whatever demands veterans want?

I think veteran deserves everything they have received and more.  But I do agree that there is no reason to make it personal.  It is reasonable for people to want to venerate veterans who fought for this county.  Similarly, it is reasonable for people to hold beliefs and hold true to those beliefs.  The issue here is that the belief system at issue is not the majority opinion and thus get swept under the rug as nonsense.

Just make this about the ideas, not the people.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-veteran-dies-in-hospital-20140703-story.html

i dont see anybody come out and say "i am willing to pay more tax, so we can build more VA hospital"...

We already do pay taxes for VA hospitals and I would pay more.  It could be better managed but having good aftercare for veterans not only helps veterans but with a number of ancillary issues such as homelessness and domestic violence.

 

[eyephone]

Curious, if this effort becomes futile, what are the options?
1) Sell and run for the hills...Orchard Hills? Or some other Irvine development.
2) Stay and just deal with it? (property values may hold steady...isn't there a Veteran's Cemetery in Westwood?)
3) Rent out your place and move to some other development?
4) Other option...(fill in the blank)?

5) Let them eat cake. (Both parties - pro and anti)
I'm sick of this. This is like talking about the OJ trial - it never EnDs!!!!!

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I still don't really see how a cemetery that far away will be an issue. You can't even see it from PP.

Someone asked if I minded if they were going to build a cemetery in my backyard... if it's as far away from my 'hood as it is from PP (where yaliu is) or BP (where ps9 is going to be)... I would be totally okay with it (and if Irvine Dream thinks I live in PP, then that even strengthens my opinion).

Quite honestly, I would be more worried about the jail.

bones doesn't seemed worried about it... what other PP residents other than yaliu think this cemetery is too close for comfort?

 

[iacrenter]

Yaliu,

Since the NIMBY argument is very hard to overcome try a different approach. Consider:

1) Flip vetrans prestige on its head
You can argue that war is immoral and it is repugnant to glorify people who kill others. There are many leftist anti war group who would gladly protest along Irivne boulevard.

2) Environmental Impact
I imagine most cemeteries are of full of water sucking plants/grass. Given we are in a severe drought, it makes no sense to allocate precious water resources to a cemetery.

 

[jmoney74]

I still don't really see how a cemetery that far away will be an issue. You can't even see it from PP.

Someone asked if I minded if they were going to build a cemetery in my backyard... if it's as far away from my 'hood as it is from PP (where yaliu is) or BP (where ps9 is going to be)... I would be totally okay with it (and if Irvine Dream thinks I live in PP, then that even strengthens my opinion).

Quite honestly, I would be more worried about the jail.

bones doesn't seemed worried about it... what other PP residents other than yaliu think this cemetery is too close for comfort?

I just think there are way better land to build cemeteries. Motorcades going to make people cringe. 

 

[jmoney74]

Yaliu,

Since the NIMBY argument is very hard to overcome try a different approach. Consider:

1) Flip vetrans prestige on its head
You can argue that war is immoral and it is repugnant to glorify people who kill others. There are many leftist anti war group who would gladly protest along Irivne boulevard.

2) Environmental Impact
I imagine most cemeteries are of full of water sucking plants/grass. Given we are in a severe drought, it makes no sense to allocate precious water resources to a cemetery.

Drought tolerant cemetery?  Lol

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I just think there are way better land to build cemeteries.

But where in OC?

I think one of the issues is there is no veteran cemetery in OC so that it makes visitation easier for relatives.

Tustin Legacy would be a good choice... then qwercalves might actually show up.

Motorcades going to make people cringe. 

Really? I never feel sad when I see one, I think that the person must have been blessed to have touched so many lives.

 

[jmoney74]

I just think there are way better land to build cemeteries.

But where in OC?

I think one of the issues is there is no veteran cemetery in OC so that it makes visitation easier for relatives.

Tustin Legacy would be a good choice... then qwercalves might actually show up.

Motorcades going to make people cringe. 

Really? I never feel sad when I see one, I think that the person must have been blessed to have touched so many lives.

Maybe after 100 times you see it on sand canyon... Can get old.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

I just think there are way better land to build cemeteries.

But where in OC?

I think one of the issues is there is no veteran cemetery in OC so that it makes visitation easier for relatives.

Tustin Legacy would be a good choice... then qwercalves might actually show up.

Motorcades going to make people cringe. 

Really? I never feel sad when I see one, I think that the person must have been blessed to have touched so many lives.

I think the OC register article talked about a location in Anaheim Hills.  Slight aside, I like how the supporter of the cemetery cited in the presentation that all the other cities in OC supports a memorial in Irvine.  Just about every other city in OC north of Irvine hates Irvine...those cities and the beach cities were the ones pushing for an airport in GP.