President Trump

[fortune11]

LOL I had the same reaction . It?s like we have our own baby Alex jones  

When you Leftists have nothing coherent to say, you "LOL", or call those you despise "racist" and "fascist."  Mature, thinking adults don't laugh at such Leftist ignorance.  They shake their heads in amazement.

Mature adults only compare " my portfolio is bigger than yours  "    and maybe  hand sizes .  How do we score on that front  ?

ROTFLMAO -- now go and decode that one  with your MBA  : )

 

[StarmanMBA]

A lion does not turn around when a small dog barks. - Nigerian Proverb

Answer not a fool according to his folly lest thou be like unto him. - The Holy Bible

 

[fortune11]

A lion does not turn around when a small dog barks. - Nigerian Proverb

Answer not a fool according to his folly lest thou be like unto him. - The Holy Bible

@Kaos - he is almost begging you to post some meme pics .  I am still not skilled enough to do it - urge you to step in here ; )

 

[morekaos]

https://youtu.be/jKGjOE_7bYI

Oh Hell...I keep forgetting I am not supposed to comment on this thread till after the mid-terms!! Stop taunting me!  See ya around.

 

[Liar Loan]

where's my popcorn?

@kanyewest

Obama was in office for eight years and nothing in Chicago changed.

3:38 PM - 25 Apr 2018
https://twitter.com/kanyewest/status/989272340432240641[/quote]

Wait..Kanye West is important because?

Young people are easily influenced.  It's tough for Dems to claim the "hipster" mantle, when heavy hitters like Kanye are jumping ship.

So let me get this straight ?

Are Fox News and right wing pundits now going to tell Kanye to,  "shut up and sing" yet, or does that only apply to anti-Trump black celebrities like Lebron etc

Yeah right ...

The difference is Lebron, Steve Kerr, Greg Popovich, etc. are using their positions as celebrities to spread their negative views.  That turns a lot of people off.  Kanye is spreading nothing but love. 

Secondly, he's also a professional rapper, so rapping is what he does.  If somebody were to tell him to "shut up and rap", well that would be pointless because providing commentary is what rappers do.

 

[Liar Loan]

where's my popcorn?

@kanyewest

Obama was in office for eight years and nothing in Chicago changed.

3:38 PM - 25 Apr 2018
https://twitter.com/kanyewest/status/989272340432240641[/quote]

Wait..Kanye West is important because?

Young people are easily influenced.  It's tough for Dems to claim the "hipster" mantle, when heavy hitters like Kanye are jumping ship.

LOL.  GOP trying to claim "young voters"

This is not an SNL sketch.  It's real footage of the DNC convention.
https://youtu.be/tGIr4Mq_4C8

 

[fortune11]

Honestly, isn't this just another form of tribalism much like people's views on big guvah-mint

When my side does it , its ok

but when someone speaks for your side or spends towards your goals , it is ______ fill in the blanks

 

[Liar Loan]

Honestly, isn't this just another form of tribalism much like people's views on big guvah-mint

When my side does it , its ok

but when someone speaks for your side or spends towards your goals , it is ______ fill in the blanks

Sorry too much false equivalency here.  Many people are against big government, but their representatives constantly betray them.

Examples:  Paul Ryan's omnibus spending bills.  Funding of planned parenthood.

I actually do want much smaller government, but who do you vote for to make it happen?  A lot of times I vote Libertarian for President because I can't stand either one of the big government candidates running. 

Spending has not gone down under Trump either, but at least he is demolishing a good chunk of the regulatory state, something Republican candidates have always promised to do, but until Trump came along, none of them actually did it.

 

[fortune11]

Honestly, isn't this just another form of tribalism much like people's views on big guvah-mint

When my side does it , its ok

but when someone speaks for your side or spends towards your goals , it is ______ fill in the blanks

Sorry too much false equivalency here.  Many people are against big government, but their representatives constantly betray them.

Examples:  Paul Ryan's omnibus spending bills.  Funding of planned parenthood.

I actually do want much smaller government, but who do you vote for to make it happen?  A lot of times I vote Libertarian for President because I can't stand either one of the big government candidates running. 

Spending has not gone down under Trump either, but at least he is demolishing a good chunk of the regulatory state, something Republican candidates have always promised to do, but until Trump came along, none of them actually did it.

So you agree that you willing to over look a whole bunch of things - like character , morality , possible criminality (and treason) and complete blowup of conservative ethos, because for your narrow situation (small business owner in finance?) the ends justify the means , right  ?

Again, I am not saying one is better than the other , but it is time we accept what the trade offs are and admit it openly . 

 

[Liar Loan]

Honestly, isn't this just another form of tribalism much like people's views on big guvah-mint

When my side does it , its ok

but when someone speaks for your side or spends towards your goals , it is ______ fill in the blanks

Sorry too much false equivalency here.  Many people are against big government, but their representatives constantly betray them.

Examples:  Paul Ryan's omnibus spending bills.  Funding of planned parenthood.

I actually do want much smaller government, but who do you vote for to make it happen?  A lot of times I vote Libertarian for President because I can't stand either one of the big government candidates running. 

Spending has not gone down under Trump either, but at least he is demolishing a good chunk of the regulatory state, something Republican candidates have always promised to do, but until Trump came along, none of them actually did it.

So you agree that you willing to over look a whole bunch of things - like character , morality , possible criminality (and treason) and complete blowup of conservative ethos, because for your narrow situation (small business owner in finance?) the ends justify the means , right  ?

Again, I am not saying one is better than the other , but it is time we accept what the trade offs are and admit it openly .

I'm not overlooking anything.  I simply vote for who represents my views the closest.  Trump was about an 80% match according to ISideWith.com.  There's never a perfect fit.

What I find interesting is the things you listed:

-Lack of character
-Morality
-Possible criminality

Are things that could apply to Bill & Hillary and a whole host of Washington DC politicians, yet you seem to believe they only apply to Trump.  You can't throw stones when you live in a glass house.  If these flaws honestly bothered you, you wouldn't have voted the way you did.

The last thing you listed - blowing up the conservative ethos - why would I be against that?  One look at Jeb! and anybody could see it needed blowing up.  Cronyism, interventionism, big government.  The conservative ethos had lost its way badly.

You have me falsely pegged as a Fox-watching conservative, which I am not.  I'm not ideological about politics.  I have a set of pragmatic positions on a bunch of different issues, which coincidentally, also describes Trump.  Do I agree with him on every issue?  Nope.  But since he is a pragmatist himself, I find myself in agreement with him a lot of the time.

Prior to his candidacy, I wasn't a fan of Trump.  Never watched the Apprentice.  Thought it sounded dumb.  And I also wasn't a fan of his ostentatious persona in the tabloid media.  He's simply a vehicle to accomplish what I hope to see accomplished.  A lot of other Republicans have promised to do things, but never followed through. 

What makes Trump un-Presidential and scary is that he openly talks about what he plans to do, and then he does it.  I happen to like that a lot.

 

[fortune11]

Honestly, isn't this just another form of tribalism much like people's views on big guvah-mint

When my side does it , its ok

but when someone speaks for your side or spends towards your goals , it is ______ fill in the blanks

Sorry too much false equivalency here.  Many people are against big government, but their representatives constantly betray them.

Examples:  Paul Ryan's omnibus spending bills.  Funding of planned parenthood.

I actually do want much smaller government, but who do you vote for to make it happen?  A lot of times I vote Libertarian for President because I can't stand either one of the big government candidates running. 

Spending has not gone down under Trump either, but at least he is demolishing a good chunk of the regulatory state, something Republican candidates have always promised to do, but until Trump came along, none of them actually did it.

So you agree that you willing to over look a whole bunch of things - like character , morality , possible criminality (and treason) and complete blowup of conservative ethos, because for your narrow situation (small business owner in finance?) the ends justify the means , right  ?

Again, I am not saying one is better than the other , but it is time we accept what the trade offs are and admit it openly .

I'm not overlooking anything.  I simply vote for who represents my views the closest.  Trump was about an 80% match according to ISideWith.com.  There's never a perfect fit.

What I find interesting is the things you listed:

-Lack of character
-Morality
-Possible criminality

Are things that could apply to Bill & Hillary and a whole host of Washington DC politicians, yet you seem to believe they only apply to Trump.  You can't throw stones when you live in a glass house.  If these flaws honestly bothered you, you wouldn't have voted the way you did.

The last thing you listed - blowing up the conservative ethos - why would I be against that?  One look at Jeb! and anybody could see it needed blowing up.  Cronyism, interventionism, big government.  The conservative ethos had lost its way badly.

You have me falsely pegged as a Fox-watching conservative, which I am not.  I'm not ideological about politics.  I have a set of pragmatic positions on a bunch of different issues, which coincidentally, also describes Trump.  Do I agree with him on every issue?  Nope.  But since he is a pragmatist himself, I find myself in agreement with him a lot of the time.

Prior to his candidacy, I wasn't a fan of Trump.  Never watched the Apprentice.  Thought it sounded dumb.  And I also wasn't a fan of his ostentatious persona in the tabloid media.  He's simply a vehicle to accomplish what I hope to see accomplished.  A lot of other Republicans have promised to do things, but never follow through. 

What makes Trump un-Presidential and scary is that he openly talks about what he plans to do, and then he does it.  I happen to like that a lot.

No but you keep pointing to Bill / Hillary but the boogeyman for the last 8 years for the tea party and GOP base has been Obama ...  do we wonder why

I am not pegging you as anything but there is various shades of grey in all these  - like there is speeding at 100+ mph  /  robbing a bank / committing murder .  all are punishable offenses but not equivalent - so lumping them together may be ok to morally justify your vote to yourself , but ...

my point is you don't even need to.  this is why I don't know why we waste so much energy defending trump  when it doesn't need to be defended - he is simply a tool to achieve an end for you, just as democrats (in this situation) are for me - in terms of my goals and ends. 

in 2012 , I voted for Romney because he was the best instrument for the job at hand  , simple as that.  it all comes down to what attributes you prioritize more , but claiming they are all cut from the same cloth , when clearly they are not, is also disingenuous

 

[Liar Loan]

I agree that Hillary's crimes are not the same as Trump's.  They are far worse.

She has defended a rapist and ruined the lives of Bill's multiple accusers. 

She has compromised national security with her private e-mail server that was used to sell influence and launder money via the Clinton Foundation.

Not only that, her judgement has been atrocious as a Senator:  voting to authorize Iraq.  1 million dead Iraqi's as a result.

As Sec. of State, she doubled down and orchestrated the invasion of Libya, something Obama still calls "his worst mistake".

To me this is all disqualifying, but you are trying to create a false equivalence with Trump because he says things in a non-PC way that you don't like.

I don't like that he cheated on Melania, but it's a personal matter between them.  He hasn't ruined the lives of those he slept with.

His vast wealth was acquired legally, unlike the fortune the Clintons have amassed since Bill's presidency.

He doesn't have the blood of millions of people on his hands, and the only evidence his opponents can find that he supported invading Iraq was a lukewarm comment on the Howard Stern show saying "I guess."

Sorry, for you to talk about criminality but to overlook the things the Clintons have done, shows you are the one willing to overlook a lack of morality in order to push your agenda.

 

[fortune11]

I agree that Hillary's crimes are not the same as Trump's.  They are far worse.

She has defended a rapist and ruined the lives of Bill's multiple accusers. 

She has compromised national security with her private e-mail server that was used to sell influence and launder money via the Clinton Foundation.

Not only that, her judgement has been atrocious as a Senator:  voting to authorize Iraq.  1 million dead Iraqi's as a result.

As Sec. of State, she doubled down and orchestrated the invasion of Libya, something Obama still calls "his worst mistake".

To me this is all disqualifying, but you are trying to create a false equivalence with Trump because he says things in a non-PC way that you don't like.

I don't like that he cheated on Melania, but it's a personal matter between them.  He hasn't ruined the lives of those he slept with.

His vast wealth was acquired legally, unlike the fortune the Clintons have amassed since Bill's presidency.

He doesn't have the blood of millions of people on his hands, and the only evidence his opponents can find that he supported invading Iraq was a lukewarm comment on the Howard Stern show saying "I guess."

Sorry, for you to talk about criminality but to overlook the things the Clintons have done, shows you are the one willing to overlook a lack of morality in order to push your agenda.

Er ... By this logic you should have voted for John Kerry in 2004 and Obama in 2008 ... 

 

[Liar Loan]

I agree that Hillary's crimes are not the same as Trump's.  They are far worse.

She has defended a rapist and ruined the lives of Bill's multiple accusers. 

She has compromised national security with her private e-mail server that was used to sell influence and launder money via the Clinton Foundation.

Not only that, her judgement has been atrocious as a Senator:  voting to authorize Iraq.  1 million dead Iraqi's as a result.

As Sec. of State, she doubled down and orchestrated the invasion of Libya, something Obama still calls "his worst mistake".

To me this is all disqualifying, but you are trying to create a false equivalence with Trump because he says things in a non-PC way that you don't like.

I don't like that he cheated on Melania, but it's a personal matter between them.  He hasn't ruined the lives of those he slept with.

His vast wealth was acquired legally, unlike the fortune the Clintons have amassed since Bill's presidency.

He doesn't have the blood of millions of people on his hands, and the only evidence his opponents can find that he supported invading Iraq was a lukewarm comment on the Howard Stern show saying "I guess."

Sorry, for you to talk about criminality but to overlook the things the Clintons have done, shows you are the one willing to overlook a lack of morality in order to push your agenda.

Er ... By this logic you should have voted for John Kerry in 2004 and Obama in 2008 ...

John Kerry voted to invade Iraq.  He then flip flopped on it.  I suppose that makes him a swell guy in your book.

Obama was against Iraq and deserves credit for that, but if I disagree with him on 100% of domestic issues he's still not somebody I could vote for.

That's why I voted Libertarian during those years.  The only Republican I could root for was Ron Paul.  He was ridiculed badly for being against Iraq, but now it's the mainstream position even among Republicans.

 

[fortune11]

I agree that Hillary's crimes are not the same as Trump's.  They are far worse.

She has defended a rapist and ruined the lives of Bill's multiple accusers. 

She has compromised national security with her private e-mail server that was used to sell influence and launder money via the Clinton Foundation.

Not only that, her judgement has been atrocious as a Senator:  voting to authorize Iraq.  1 million dead Iraqi's as a result.

As Sec. of State, she doubled down and orchestrated the invasion of Libya, something Obama still calls "his worst mistake".

To me this is all disqualifying, but you are trying to create a false equivalence with Trump because he says things in a non-PC way that you don't like.

I don't like that he cheated on Melania, but it's a personal matter between them.  He hasn't ruined the lives of those he slept with.

His vast wealth was acquired legally, unlike the fortune the Clintons have amassed since Bill's presidency.

He doesn't have the blood of millions of people on his hands, and the only evidence his opponents can find that he supported invading Iraq was a lukewarm comment on the Howard Stern show saying "I guess."

Sorry, for you to talk about criminality but to overlook the things the Clintons have done, shows you are the one willing to overlook a lack of morality in order to push your agenda.

Er ... By this logic you should have voted for John Kerry in 2004 and Obama in 2008 ...

John Kerry voted to invade Iraq.  He then flip flopped on it.  I suppose that makes him a swell guy in your book.

Obama was against Iraq and deserves credit for that, but if I disagree with him on 100% of domestic issues he's still not somebody I could vote for.

That's why I voted Libertarian during those years.  The only Republican I could root for was Ron Paul.  He was ridiculed badly for being against Iraq, but now it's the mainstream position even among Republicans.

True libertarianism is an academic myth , much as we like it, it is a fantasy

There is an externality or "cost  " to every social and economic construct and activity

maybe you could live isolated on a farm in the 19th century with your family but in today's interconnected world , cause and effect is much harder to determine and more often than not, the supposed "libertarian " finds himself or herself standing on shoulders of others

One should be free to smoke cigarettes , but not when my tax dollars are going towards your treatment and when it affects my quality of air .. I could go on and on ...

But back to this point , if you are ok w government taking control and passing executive orders to achieve your goals but not when Obama is doing it for the goals of the other side -- it again, comes down to priorities , not libertarianism

 

[Liar Loan]

I agree that Hillary's crimes are not the same as Trump's.  They are far worse.

She has defended a rapist and ruined the lives of Bill's multiple accusers. 

She has compromised national security with her private e-mail server that was used to sell influence and launder money via the Clinton Foundation.

Not only that, her judgement has been atrocious as a Senator:  voting to authorize Iraq.  1 million dead Iraqi's as a result.

As Sec. of State, she doubled down and orchestrated the invasion of Libya, something Obama still calls "his worst mistake".

To me this is all disqualifying, but you are trying to create a false equivalence with Trump because he says things in a non-PC way that you don't like.

I don't like that he cheated on Melania, but it's a personal matter between them.  He hasn't ruined the lives of those he slept with.

His vast wealth was acquired legally, unlike the fortune the Clintons have amassed since Bill's presidency.

He doesn't have the blood of millions of people on his hands, and the only evidence his opponents can find that he supported invading Iraq was a lukewarm comment on the Howard Stern show saying "I guess."

Sorry, for you to talk about criminality but to overlook the things the Clintons have done, shows you are the one willing to overlook a lack of morality in order to push your agenda.

Er ... By this logic you should have voted for John Kerry in 2004 and Obama in 2008 ...

John Kerry voted to invade Iraq.  He then flip flopped on it.  I suppose that makes him a swell guy in your book.

Obama was against Iraq and deserves credit for that, but if I disagree with him on 100% of domestic issues he's still not somebody I could vote for.

That's why I voted Libertarian during those years.  The only Republican I could root for was Ron Paul.  He was ridiculed badly for being against Iraq, but now it's the mainstream position even among Republicans.

True libertarianism is an academic myth , much as we like it, it is a fantasy

There is an externality or "cost  " to every social and economic construct and activity

maybe you could live isolated on a farm in the 19th century with your family but in today's interconnected world , cause and effect is much harder to determine and more often than not, the supposed "libertarian " finds himself or herself standing on shoulders of others

One should be free to smoke cigarettes , but not when my tax dollars are going towards your treatment and when it affects my quality of air .. I could go on and on ...

But back to this point , if you are ok w government taking control and passing executive orders to achieve your goals but not when Obama is doing it for the goals of the other side -- it again, comes down to priorities , not libertarianism

I've seen this argument made many times, and it's totally dumb.  True Democracy is also a myth.  True Republicanism is also a myth. 

Our system borrows from many different political ideologies.  It doesn't mean the one you align with has to be pure to the exclusion of all others.

I've already stated that I vote based on a set of pragmatic positions on a variety of issues.  Some align with the Libertarian party and some don't.

 

[fortune11]

aren't we saying the same thing - you vote based on attributes you find useful for your personal advantage. 

You are essentially optimizing an objective function subject to your self imposed constraints . 

hence, we don't have to bring acrimony for the other side into these discussions.  Yes,  __ is a pig or ___  but I don't care because ___ .  Now  fill in the blanks. 

we don't need to wrap ourselves up in morality and hatred for the other side to be able to logically state the above

 

[Liar Loan]

aren't we saying the same thing - you vote based on attributes you find useful for your personal advantage. 

You are essentially optimizing an objective function subject to your self imposed constraints . 

hence, we don't have to bring acrimony for the other side into these discussions.  Yes,  __ is a pig or ___  but I don't care because ___ .  Now  fill in the blanks. 

we don't need to wrap ourselves up in morality and hatred for the other side to be able to logically state the above

It sounds like you vote for your own self interests and optimize for that.  I vote based on what I think is in the best interests of the citizens of our country.

 

[fortune11]

aren't we saying the same thing - you vote based on attributes you find useful for your personal advantage. 

You are essentially optimizing an objective function subject to your self imposed constraints . 

hence, we don't have to bring acrimony for the other side into these discussions.  Yes,  __ is a pig or ___  but I don't care because ___ .  Now  fill in the blanks. 

we don't need to wrap ourselves up in morality and hatred for the other side to be able to logically state the above

It sounds like you vote for your own self interests and optimize for that.  I vote based on what I think is in the best interests of the citizens of our country.

Again with the preaching and sermonizing  ... You don't like regulation because maybe it hurts you as a business owner.  But you have no problems when thousands or millions or citizens get scammed or duped because of lax regulation and oversight. 

Do you have sympathy or concern for the citizens of color who get discriminated against or harassed by law enforcement or those who feel scared to remove their hands from their pockets lest they get shot (after all they were only asking for it) ?

What you are really saying is ... " I vote based on what I think is in the best interests of the citizens who look and act and think like me "    - there , fixed it for you  : )

 

[nosuchreality]

aren't we saying the same thing - you vote based on attributes you find useful for your personal advantage. 

You are essentially optimizing an objective function subject to your self imposed constraints . 

hence, we don't have to bring acrimony for the other side into these discussions.  Yes,  __ is a pig or ___  but I don't care because ___ .  Now  fill in the blanks. 

we don't need to wrap ourselves up in morality and hatred for the other side to be able to logically state the above

It sounds like you vote for your own self interests and optimize for that.  I vote based on what I think is in the best interests of the citizens of our country.

Again with the preaching and sermonizing  ... You don't like regulation because maybe it hurts you as a business owner.  But you have no problems when thousands or millions or citizens get scammed or duped because of lax regulation and oversight. 

Do you have sympathy or concern for the citizens of color who get discriminated against or harassed by law enforcement or those who feel scared to remove their hands from their pockets lest they get shot (after all they were only asking for it) ?

What you are really saying is ... " I vote based on what I think is in the best interests of the citizens who look and act and think like me "    - there , fixed it for you  : )

It's really interesting when you look at liberal elite areas of the country say, but then how it really pans out in their local school district.