Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts

[fortune11]

What?s up with all the graphic imagery suddenly popping up with right leaning posts in all these trump / gun threads ... the quality and loud graphics  suggests copy and pasted from Russian troll farm sites , or lifted from one of those links from drudge

 

[Kings]

Gun control will not work.  Let's put it in terms of obesity.  Why is the country so obese?  Sugary foods, lack of exercise, eating to combat stress and depression, etc.  I deem twinkies (killing with an AR-15) as the #1 cause of obesity (school shootings) and a danger to society.  Let's control twinkies so only people that pass certain eating habit tests and are thin enough can buy them.  What is the result?  We may have less obesity in the short term, but in the long term the people that don't develop good eating and exercise habits will still become obese by turning to eating sugary cereal (killing with pump shotguns).  Hmmm...let's put restrictions on sugary cereal because that is now the #1 cause of obesity.  I think you can see where this is going.

When something tragic happens, we always need to find a cause that we can blame and then try to address.  That's human nature.  Except we're going about this all wrong.  We're trying to address a problem too far down the line.  Any problem solving logic will tell you to start from the beginning, not from the end.  We're starting from the end with gun control - that's how you can tell the gun control debate is based on pure emotion.  We're not being logical in trying to diagnose this problem.  If we were being logical, we would look at all of the contributing factors to this latest shooting, starting from the beginning of this guy's life.

[list type=decimal]
[*]He was adopted and his father died when he was very young (no father figure).
[*]He acted erratically at school and likely had autism (mental issues).
[*]He was teased and bullied his whole life (hostile environment at school).
[*]He didn't have a lot of friends (no support system).
[*]He was expelled from high school (the final straw to confirm he doesn't fit in and there's nothing to help him).
[/list]

All of these things contributed to the school shooting.  Do a better job of addressing these issues as our young people grow up and we can completely avoid school shootings.  Gun control is not an issue anymore.  I'm not afraid to say that these same students who bullied him his whole life are the ones who contributed to this tragedy. 

We need to do a better job at making every student feel welcome and providing a better support system for young people growing up so that these developing minds don't go off and commit tragedies like this.  We need to pay our teachers more, train them to better understand and address students like this by making school a positive environment, add more support systems for troubled students who don't have support systems, and maybe even implement a zero tolerance bullying policy.

The sooner we realize that we need to start from the beginning, not the end, the sooner we will be able to do finally make a change.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Gun control will not work.  Let's put it in terms of obesity.  Why is the country so obese?  Sugary foods, lack of exercise, eating to combat stress and depression, etc.  I deem twinkies (killing with an AR-15) as the #1 cause of obesity (school shootings) and a danger to society.  Let's control twinkies so only people that pass certain eating habit tests and are thin enough can buy them.  What is the result?  We may have less obesity in the short term, but in the long term the people that don't develop good eating and exercise habits will still become obese by turning to eating sugary cereal (killing with pump shotguns).  Hmmm...let's put restrictions on sugary cereal because that is now the #1 cause of obesity.  I think you can see where this is going.

When something tragic happens, we always need to find a cause that we can blame and then try to address.  That's human nature.  Except we're going about this all wrong.  We're trying to address a problem too far down the line.  Any problem solving logic will tell you to start from the beginning, not from the end.  We're starting from the end with gun control - that's how you can tell the gun control debate is based on pure emotion.  We're not being logical in trying to diagnose this problem.  If we were being logical, we would look at all of the contributing factors to this latest shooting, starting from the beginning of this guy's life.

[list type=decimal]
[*]He was adopted and his father died when he was very young (no father figure).
[*]He acted erratically at school and likely had autism (mental issues).
[*]He was teased and bullied his whole life (hostile environment at school).
[*]He didn't have a lot of friends (no support system).
[*]He was expelled from high school (the final straw to confirm he doesn't fit in and there's nothing to help him).
[/list]

All of these things contributed to the school shooting.  Do a better job of addressing these issues as our young people grow up and we can completely avoid school shootings.  Gun control is not an issue anymore.  I'm not afraid to say that these same students who bullied him his whole life are the ones who contributed to this tragedy. 

We need to do a better job at making every student feel welcome and providing a better support system for young people growing up so that these developing minds don't go off and commit tragedies like this.  We need to pay our teachers more, train them to better understand and address students like this by making school a positive environment, add more support systems for troubled students who don't have support systems, and maybe even implement a zero tolerance bullying policy.

The sooner we realize that we need to start from the beginning, not the end, the sooner we will be able to do finally make a change.

Hmm..gun control works.  There are studies on it. 

and why do gun rights people have problem understanding that we should be able to chew gum and walk at the same time.  You can address those issues and have good gun control!

oh apparently those problems only exist in the United States.  It's like utopia in the rest of the world. 

 

[riznick]

What?s up with all the graphic imagery suddenly popping up with right leaning posts in all these trump / gun threads ... the quality and loud graphics  suggests copy and pasted from Russian troll farm sites , or lifted from one of those links from drudge

Much like the closed minded bigoted sheep talking points that you repeat on a regukar basis.  Try thinking critically.  You may have some eye opening experiences.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

What?s up with all the graphic imagery suddenly popping up with right leaning posts in all these trump / gun threads ... the quality and loud graphics  suggests copy and pasted from Russian troll farm sites , or lifted from one of those links from drudge

Much like the closed minded bigoted sheep talking points that you repeat on a regukar basis.  Try thinking critically.  You may have some eye opening experiences.

I like how the person is telling people to "think critically" is the one telling others that their opinions are "closed minded bigoted sheep talking point". 

 

[fortune11]

What?s up with all the graphic imagery suddenly popping up with right leaning posts in all these trump / gun threads ... the quality and loud graphics  suggests copy and pasted from Russian troll farm sites , or lifted from one of those links from drudge

Much like the closed minded bigoted sheep talking points that you repeat on a regukar basis.  Try thinking critically.  You may have some eye opening experiences.

I like how the person is telling people to "think critically" is the one telling others that their opinions are "closed minded bigoted sheep talking point".

Wow he really got triggered by this ..  I totally forgot this forum was supposed to be a safe space ,

My bad ? but please , instead of ?sheep? can I be a closed minded bigoted black panther instead ? Way cooler

 

[riznick]

I like how the person is telling people to "think critically" is the one telling others that their opinions are "closed minded bigoted sheep talking point".

You should also try thinking critically.  I'm not basing this on this thread alone, but what I've seen overall.  You think this response is witty, but it's really not.  A key element to critical thinking is being open to consider the various facts, opinions, perspectives, biases and views.

Wow he really got triggered by this ..  I totally forgot this forum was supposed to be a safe space ,

My bad ? but please , instead of ?sheep? can I be a closed minded bigoted black panther instead ? Way cooler

Safe space?  I don't know.  You are free to keep acting like an asshole, and others are free to keep pointing it out.  You are free to bully others here, and others are free to point it out and call you out.  We all get our say without asking anyone for protection. 

I do challenge you to step back and look at your disgusting behavior.  Do you think you are changing anyone's mind with your choice of words and topics?  No.  Based on your choices, it appears that you are probably just here to insult others and you probably get some joy out of it.

P.S.  Am I triggered?  Yeah, I am.  I think we should all be triggered when some of you get excited that since some kids died you get to insult everyone who doesn't agree with you.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

You should also try thinking critically.  I'm not basing this on this thread alone, but what I've seen overall.  You think this response is witty, but it's really not.  A key element to critical thinking is being open to consider the various facts, opinions, perspectives, biases and views.

The irony remains strong. 

I have linked studies, polls, and arguments regarding why gun control works and should be considered.

In response, I got a naked accusation that I am "close minded", "bigoted", and a "sheep."

Safe space?  I don't know.  You are free to keep acting like an asshole, and others are free to keep pointing it out.  You are free to bully others here, and others are free to point it out and call you out.  We all get our say without asking anyone for protection. 

I do challenge you to step back and look at your disgusting behavior.  Do you think you are changing anyone's mind with your choice of words and topics?  No.  Based on your choices, it appears that you are probably just here to insult others and you probably get some joy out of it.

P.S.  Am I triggered?  Yeah, I am.  I think we should all be triggered when some of you get excited that since some kids died you get to insult everyone who doesn't agree with you.

Bully?  How did anyone bully anyone else?  I noticed no one but gun rights advocates calling people names and identify opposing opinions as "closed minded bigoted sheep talking points."

It's odd that you think any of us are "excited".  That is most definitely not the emotion that I feel regarding this subject.

 

[riznick]

The irony remains strong. 

I have linked forth studies, polls, and arguments regarding why gun control works and should be considered.

In response, I got a naked accusation that I am "close minded", "bigoted", and a "sheep."

That wasn't the direct response.  My response was that I didn't necessarily disagree.  I did, however, provide a counter-response.  Why are you dishonestly representing that?  You clearly only read what you wanted to read in the response which shows closed mindedness.

Bully?  How did anyone bully anyone else?

 
When you dishonestly side with and encourage the bully, you become part of the problem. 

I noticed no one but gun rights advocates calling people names and identify opposing opinions as "closed minded bigoted sheep talking points."

Who were they?  Are you referring to me?  Am I a gun rights activist? Did you see the post I responded to?  No, because you are proving my point.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

The irony remains strong. 

I have linked forth studies, polls, and arguments regarding why gun control works and should be considered.

In response, I got a naked accusation that I am "close minded", "bigoted", and a "sheep."

That wasn't the direct response.  My response was that I didn't necessarily disagree.  I did, however, provide a counter-response.  Why are you dishonestly representing that?  You clearly only read what you wanted to read in the response which shows closed mindedness.

Bully?  How did anyone bully anyone else?  I noticed no one but gun rights advocates calling people names and identify opposing opinions as "closed minded bigoted sheep talking points."

Who were they?  Are you referring to me?  Am I a gun rights activist? Did you see the post I responded to?  No, because you are proving my point.

You literally wrote this: 

Much like the closed minded bigoted sheep talking points that you repeat on a regukar basis.  Try thinking critically.  You may have some eye opening experiences.

 

[riznick]

You literally wrote this: 

Initially in direct response to fortune11.  But you are still purposely and dishonestly ignoring all of that.  How are you not part of the problem?

 

[Irvinecommuter]

You literally wrote this: 

Initially in direct response to fortune11.  But you are still purposely and dishonestly ignoring all of that.  How are you not part of the problem?

What does that have to do with anything? 

And then you wrote this to me:

You should also try thinking critically.  I'm not basing this on this thread alone, but what I've seen overall.  You think this response is witty, but it's really not.  A key element to critical thinking is being open to consider the various facts, opinions, perspectives, biases and views.

 

[riznick]

What does that have to do with anything? 

I'm done.  No point into getting any further into this.  It's futile at this point.  It feels as if you are being deliberately obtuse.

And then you wrote this to me:

You should also try thinking critically.  I'm not basing this on this thread alone, but what I've seen overall.  You think this response is witty, but it's really not.  A key element to critical thinking is being open to consider the various facts, opinions, perspectives, biases and views.

Sure, and you should consider that.  I'll even repeat it again in the future, I bet. 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

And then you wrote this to me:

You should also try thinking critically.  I'm not basing this on this thread alone, but what I've seen overall.  You think this response is witty, but it's really not.  A key element to critical thinking is being open to consider the various facts, opinions, perspectives, biases and views.

Sure, and you should consider that.

And the irony remains strong.

 

[fortune11]

And then you wrote this to me:

You should also try thinking critically.  I'm not basing this on this thread alone, but what I've seen overall.  You think this response is witty, but it's really not.  A key element to critical thinking is being open to consider the various facts, opinions, perspectives, biases and views.

Sure, and you should consider that.

And the irony remains strong.

Yes , and the irony will get lost .. t?was a reaosnable discussion while it lasted . Now we are in the zone of foaming-at-the-mouth behavior and photoshopped ugliness. 

At least the kids are alright and more upstanding citizens than the generation  in charge right now .. gives you a little more faith in the future !

 

[Irvinecommuter]

And then you wrote this to me:

You should also try thinking critically.  I'm not basing this on this thread alone, but what I've seen overall.  You think this response is witty, but it's really not.  A key element to critical thinking is being open to consider the various facts, opinions, perspectives, biases and views.

Sure, and you should consider that.

And the irony remains strong.

Yes , and the irony will get lost .. t?was a reaosnable discussion while it lasted . Now we are in the zone of foaming-at-the-mouth behavior and photoshopped ugliness. 

At least the kids are alright and more upstanding citizens than the generation  in charge right now .. gives you a little more faith in the future !

I love this quote from Trevor Noah:

?Goddamn, these kids are not messing around. Wow!? the host said. ?This also just goes to show how upside-down everything becomes when guns are involved. Now, kids are acting like adults and adults are acting like children.?

Noah imagined senators whining, ?You?re taking my favorite toys, this is so unfair!? Meanwhile, the students are saying, ?You can?t have them if you?re not responsible enough to handle them.?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trevor-noah-parkland-students-know-more-than-fox-news-about-guns

Also loved that kid last night on CNN taking Rubio to task on taking NRA money. 

 

[fortune11]

Yes, and all the right wing nutjobs on radio and tv claiming that the kids are bought and paid actors ... 

These are the darkest hours before dawn  ... the kids marching in the streets do make you proud ? ?stay in your lane ? is not going to work anymore .

Everyone has a right to exercise their first amendment rights , not just the bullies with a loud megaphone and  entrenched in power

 

[Irvinecommuter]

On the other side:

LaPierre used his address to the conservative conference CPAC to hit out at anti-gun campaigners, who, led by young survivors of the shooting, have attempted to make political headway in the last week.

?They fantasize about more laws stopping what other laws have failed to stop,? the National Rifle Association executive vice-president said. ?So many existing laws were ignored.?

He added: ?They don?t care if their laws work or not. They just want to get more laws to get more control over people. But the NRA, the NRA does care.?

LaPierre also hit out at the ?breathless national media? which he said was ?eager to smear the NRA in the midst of genuine grief?.

Many in the media ?love mass shootings,? he said, adding: ?Crying white mothers are ratings gold.?

Elites want to ?eliminate our firearms freedoms and eradicate all the individual freedoms?, he said. ?They hate the NRA, they hate the second amendment, they hate individual freedom.?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nra-head-lashes-gun-control-151815781.html

 

[sgip]

It's as if a YA Dystopian Novel (Hunger Games/The Maze Runner, etc ad nausea) or the plot of Rogue One is playing out. Inexperienced youth being used by the powers that be to overthrow the tyrannical government du jour.  I've seen this movie before, as I'm sure we all have. I don't know about you, but having kids argue policy may sound right, but it lacks the weight of experience and historical context. As a similar protest ready teen myself at one point, I thank God none of my protest solutions of that time were ever made law.

BTW - Ever wonder what the "AR" in "AR-15" stands for?

Wonder no more:

https://www.nssf.org/msr/

 

[Irvinecommuter]

It's as if a YA Dystopian Novel (Hunger Games/The Maze Runner, etc ad nausea) or the plot of Rogue One is playing out. Inexperienced youth being used by the powers that be to overthrow the tyrannical government du jour.  I've seen this movie before, as I'm sure we all have. I don't know about you, but having kids argue policy may sound right, but it lacks the weight of experience and historical context. As a similar protest ready teen myself at one point, I thank God none of my protest solutions of that time were ever made law.

BTW - Ever wonder what the "AR" in "AR-15" stands for?

Wonder no more:

https://www.nssf.org/msr/

Or like in the real world...freedom riders and the Civil Rights movement.  Vietnam War protests.