Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts

[fortune11]

Who wrote the article should have no bearing on an objective response . 

And the doctor is specifically talking about the bullet  if you actually read the whole article --

"Routine handgun injuries leave entry and exit wounds and linear tracks through the victim's body that are roughly the size of the bullet. If the bullet does not directly hit something crucial like the heart or the aorta, and they do not bleed to death before being transported to our care at a trauma center, chances are, we can save the victim. The bullets fired by an AR-15 are different; they travel at higher velocity and are far more lethal. The damage they cause is a function of the energy they impart as they pass through the body. A typical AR-15 bullet leaves the barrel traveling almost three times faster than, and imparting more than three times the energy of, a typical 9mm bullet from a handgun. An AR-15 rifle outfitted with a magazine with 50 rounds allows many more lethal bullets to be delivered quickly without reloading."

"I have seen a handful of AR-15 injuries in my career. I saw one from a man shot in the back by a SWAT team years ago. The injury along the path of the bullet from an AR-15 is vastly different from a low-velocity handgun injury. The bullet from an AR-15 passes through the body like a cigarette boat travelling at maximum speed through a tiny canal. The tissue next to the bullet is elastic?moving away from the bullet like waves of water displaced by the boat?and then returns and settles back. This process is called cavitation; it leaves the displaced tissue damaged or killed. The high-velocity bullet causes a swath of tissue damage that extends several inches from its path. It does not have to actually hit an artery to damage it and cause catastrophic bleeding. Exit wounds can be the size of an orange."

 

[Happiness]

Who wrote the article should have no bearing on an objective response . 

And the doctor is specifically talking about the bullet  if you actually read the whole article --

"Routine handgun injuries leave entry and exit wounds and linear tracks through the victim's body that are roughly the size of the bullet. If the bullet does not directly hit something crucial like the heart or the aorta, and they do not bleed to death before being transported to our care at a trauma center, chances are, we can save the victim. The bullets fired by an AR-15 are different; they travel at higher velocity and are far more lethal. The damage they cause is a function of the energy they impart as they pass through the body. A typical AR-15 bullet leaves the barrel traveling almost three times faster than, and imparting more than three times the energy of, a typical 9mm bullet from a handgun. An AR-15 rifle outfitted with a magazine with 50 rounds allows many more lethal bullets to be delivered quickly without reloading."

"I have seen a handful of AR-15 injuries in my career. I saw one from a man shot in the back by a SWAT team years ago. The injury along the path of the bullet from an AR-15 is vastly different from a low-velocity handgun injury. The bullet from an AR-15 passes through the body like a cigarette boat travelling at maximum speed through a tiny canal. The tissue next to the bullet is elastic?moving away from the bullet like waves of water displaced by the boat?and then returns and settles back. This process is called cavitation; it leaves the displaced tissue damaged or killed. The high-velocity bullet causes a swath of tissue damage that extends several inches from its path. It does not have to actually hit an artery to damage it and cause catastrophic bleeding. Exit wounds can be the size of an orange."

The doctor does not specify what handgun he is comparing the AR-15 to so his comparison is utterly meaningless.
The .223 Rem., the ammo the AR-15 shoots, at about 2800 to 3100 fps, is the velocity of most rifles. So this doc wants to ban hunting rifles too?

Ask a knowledgeable person would they rather be shot with a AR-15 or a Smith & Wesson 686.

 

[fortune11]

Who wrote the article should have no bearing on an objective response . 

And the doctor is specifically talking about the bullet  if you actually read the whole article --

"Routine handgun injuries leave entry and exit wounds and linear tracks through the victim's body that are roughly the size of the bullet. If the bullet does not directly hit something crucial like the heart or the aorta, and they do not bleed to death before being transported to our care at a trauma center, chances are, we can save the victim. The bullets fired by an AR-15 are different; they travel at higher velocity and are far more lethal. The damage they cause is a function of the energy they impart as they pass through the body. A typical AR-15 bullet leaves the barrel traveling almost three times faster than, and imparting more than three times the energy of, a typical 9mm bullet from a handgun. An AR-15 rifle outfitted with a magazine with 50 rounds allows many more lethal bullets to be delivered quickly without reloading."

"I have seen a handful of AR-15 injuries in my career. I saw one from a man shot in the back by a SWAT team years ago. The injury along the path of the bullet from an AR-15 is vastly different from a low-velocity handgun injury. The bullet from an AR-15 passes through the body like a cigarette boat travelling at maximum speed through a tiny canal. The tissue next to the bullet is elastic?moving away from the bullet like waves of water displaced by the boat?and then returns and settles back. This process is called cavitation; it leaves the displaced tissue damaged or killed. The high-velocity bullet causes a swath of tissue damage that extends several inches from its path. It does not have to actually hit an artery to damage it and cause catastrophic bleeding. Exit wounds can be the size of an orange."

The doctor does not specify what handgun he is comparing the AR-15 to so his comparison is utterly meaningless.
The .223 Rem., the ammo the AR-15 shoots, at about 2800 to 3100 fps, is the velocity of most rifles. So this doc wants to ban hunting rifles too?

Hunting rifles are not the weapon of choice for mass murderers and don't fire at the same (fast) rate.  We can and should be able to distinguish between various shades of grey , not just black and white .  We do it all the time in other areas of our lives . 

 

[Burn That Belly]

x

 

[eyephone]

Belly or others are not addressing the issue. Why is more dangerous for kids to go to the US than kids going to school in a third world country?

 

[Burn That Belly]

x

 

[Burn That Belly]

x

 

[Kings]

Belly or others are not addressing the issue. Why is more dangerous for kids to go to the US than kids going to school in a third world country?

Because each of our tragedies and misgivings are televised 24/7, while third world countries are lucky to have working bathrooms.  It's the perception of danger.

Don't get me wrong, the tragedies are still bad when they happen in the US, but the fact that one that happens two weeks ago is on the news every day after it happen is a constant "in your face" cue to be in fear.  On top of that, the media gives school shooters exactly what they want, their day in the sun.  Hence the copycat threats immediately following. 

The 24/7 news can talk about sex trafficking and suicide bombings that are going on every day in third world countries, but it doesn't hit home hard enough and provide the fear -> eyeballs that they need to make a profit.

 

[Kings]

Belly or others are not addressing the issue. Why is more dangerous for kids to go to the US than kids going to school in a third world country?

School should just hire a private security team, a.k.a. Blackwater ('Lite'). Former retired navy seal, former Army Green Beret, former Iraqi/Afghanistan Army soldier. 

Don't agree with me?

Sean Hannity on Fox News says the same thing @ 10:26 : "Start by hiring trained armed former military veterans (and police officers)"  my vote is more for the retired military as opposed to cops. Cops are pussies these days when they hear 5.56 rounds going off. Military vets who have served are more inclined to engage an enemy. They have been in that situation overseas before and hear more than just 5.56, they hear IEDs, mortars, rockets, and shellfire missiles and MOAB (mother of all bombs) being dropped.

A LOT of cops go through their career without having fired a single gun shot or killed someone. You think that is a suitable candidate for putting them in a school as a school resource officer?  Hell nah!

We don't need a cop in school. We need a "BE ALL YOU CAN BE" army staff sergeant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud-qS5d_mQQ

Careful with talking about Hannity, he?s like the Antichrist to some people around here 

 

[eyephone]

Belly or others are not addressing the issue. Why is more dangerous for kids to go to the US than kids going to school in a third world country?

Because each of our tragedies and misgivings are televised 24/7, while third world countries are lucky to have working bathrooms.  It's the perception of danger.

Don't get me wrong, the tragedies are still bad when they happen in the US, but the fact that one that happens two weeks ago is on the news every day after it happen is a constant "in your face" cue to be in fear.  On top of that, the media gives school shooters exactly what they want, their day in the sun.  Hence the copycat threats immediately following. 

The 24/7 news can talk about sex trafficking and suicide bombings that are going on every day in third world countries, but it doesn't hit home hard enough and provide the fear -> eyeballs that they need to make a profit.

Here we go with the blame the media.
At least Belly came up with a potential idea to stop it.
(FYI - I also gave my recommendations in my previous post)

 

[sgip]

The fastest way to enact real protection?

President Tourette Syndrome needs to push to Congress (where law is made, duh) a requirement that any education system that accepts federal aid of any kind must provided armed security for any school at a 250 student to 1 guard ratio. There's have to be some exemptions for schools in rural areas of course.

Know any educator or school system that will refuse federal funding? If so, well, good luck with that. Parents would rise up faster on this issue against school board managers than on any 2A initiatives. "But... but.. .there's no money..." That's not true, and even if it was, perhaps a .001 property tax bond would do the trick. We'll all be amazed at how fast "gun free zones" suddenly become "protected student zones" overnight.

I'll take a credible deterrent over an unenforceable ban any day.

My .02c

 

[Kings]

Belly or others are not addressing the issue. Why is more dangerous for kids to go to the US than kids going to school in a third world country?

Because each of our tragedies and misgivings are televised 24/7, while third world countries are lucky to have working bathrooms.  It's the perception of danger.

Don't get me wrong, the tragedies are still bad when they happen in the US, but the fact that one that happens two weeks ago is on the news every day after it happen is a constant "in your face" cue to be in fear.  On top of that, the media gives school shooters exactly what they want, their day in the sun.  Hence the copycat threats immediately following. 

The 24/7 news can talk about sex trafficking and suicide bombings that are going on every day in third world countries, but it doesn't hit home hard enough and provide the fear -> eyeballs that they need to make a profit.

Here we go with the blame the media.
At least Belly came up with a potential idea to stop it.
(FYI - I also gave my recommendations in my previous post)

I've shared my thoughts on what the country needs to do in this thread already.  The media is just one part of the problem.

 

[fortune11]

Public schools don?t have money for supplies and now we are going to make them pay for military grade defense. 

Maybe these second amendment loving congressmen should start by allowing assault weapons inside government buildings

This is one area where we are just plain wrong by being out of sync with rest of the developed world . Aren?t we already drowning in a culture of aggression to begin with . Gasbags like hannity are part of the problem .

 

[fortune11]

Why does nothing surprise anymore

Florida school shooting survivor's mother says her family has received death threats
https://www.ajc.com/news/national/f...cWiBybajAJ/amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

 

[Burn That Belly]

x

 

[Loco_local]

School should just hire a private security team, a.k.a. Blackwater ('Lite'). Former retired navy seal, former Army Green Beret, former Iraqi/Afghanistan Army soldier. 

If you watch the movie/read the book The Whistleblower about ex-Army private security forces you will not want them anywhere near your teenage daughters.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

"74 out of Florida?s 76 state House representatives accused Israel of failing to take significant action to prevent the Feb. 14 massacre..."

Wow, looks like the GOP wants to can the Sheriff and charge him with dereliction of duty for failure to act on all the warning signs.  Every day, we keep learning more and more of the bizarre nature of "who didn't do what?"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-house-republicans-demand-sheriff-205217924.html

It's easier than actually legislating and doing their jobs.

 

[nosuchreality]

The fastest way to enact real protection?

President Tourette Syndrome needs to push to Congress (where law is made, duh) a requirement that any education system that accepts federal aid of any kind must provided armed security for any school at a 250 student to 1 guard ratio. There's have to be some exemptions for schools in rural areas of course.

Know any educator or school system that will refuse federal funding? If so, well, good luck with that. Parents would rise up faster on this issue against school board managers than on any 2A initiatives. "But... but.. .there's no money..." That's not true, and even if it was, perhaps a .001 property tax bond would do the trick. We'll all be amazed at how fast "gun free zones" suddenly become "protected student zones" overnight.

I'll take a credible deterrent over an unenforceable ban any day.

My .02c

FBI research shows that armed guards in banks INCREASE the risk of violence and have no impact on robberies.

Parkland had an armed guard, actually a trained armed on duty sheriff. While we may like to think he was derelict, if he had gone in what would have happened? Not best case scenario, real likely scenarios, the fire alarm was pulled, the halls filled with teenagers, an active shooter and panic.

Yes, i still think he was derelict, doubly so if he had body armor, triply so if he didnt have body arnor on cause then hes just a dumbass, IMO. He could have entered and at least provided presence, direction and potentially cover in his area.  That's The Job.

All that said, had he gone in sans lucky encounter in the door, i suspect there is as much or more liklihood of increased death toll as any decrease.

And how will those armed guards react with any of the numerous semi-trivial gun incidents on campus? Keep in mind, the military is and the police increasingly are trained to escalate and overwhelm instead of de-escalate and defuse situations.

The FBI Dropped The Ball.
The Sheriff Dept Dropped the Ball. (Apparently Repeatedly)
Florida Social Sercives Handled The Ball (in Hindsight Looks Like A drop)
The school district has fingerprints all over it for years.

I know, lets add a fifth layer of government to do it...

 

[momopi]

To effectively stop centerfire rifle caliber hits you need "hard" body armor, typically steel or ceramic plate inserts for plate carriers.  You'll also need padding and anti-fragmentation protection, all of which adds to significant amount of weight.  The plates also only protect limited (chest) area (10"x12" or 11"x14"), you'll need front, back, and possibly side plate inserts.

Add weight of firearm, ammunition, radio, IFAK (first aid), non-lethal sidearm (taser?), etc. and you won't be running very fast.  I'm not sure how realistic it would be to expect every school guard to be outfitted in hard body armor.  You might need to give them golf carts to go around.

For my EDC (Every Day Carry) I pack lightweight soft plate insert (11"x14"), celox, z fold gauze and little roll of duct tape.  The soft plate will only stop pistol caliber but it's light enough that you won't notice it in your pack.

 

[nosuchreality]

I suppose i could ask the Santa Ana school PD guys i usually see getting coffee although their body armor is pretty apparent.

Although I'll note your concerns and reconsider my triply dumbass but still derelict.  Now from outisde hes going to be able to tell its a centerfire? Doubt it.