Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
Happiness said:
spootieho said:
Funny how the NRA is taking so much heat for something that they had no part of.  What do they do?  They stick up for the constitution.  Apparently, that is evil.
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The NRA was founded in 1870 by US Army officers in New York City (NYC was apparently not a gun free zone back in 1870) in order to promote civilian marksmanship on behalf of the US government. For the first century of the NRA's existence, it was closely tied with the US government in promoting civilian marksmanship through agencies such as the Defense Department, DCM, Quartermaster General, Springfield Armory, etc. and actually shared many key personnel with said US government agencies.

When gun control began to rear it ugly head in the late 1960's with the rise of the radical left, the NRA organized an Institute for Legislative Action to lobby Congress. The ILA started as a small organization and only grew in direct response to the growth of legislative threats to gun ownership. Unfortunately, the ILA has now overtaken the NRA's original mandate but this is not the NRA's fault, the gun control industry put them in that position.

The elite doesn't care about the NRA. The elite's real target is the half of US households that are gun owners who the elite view as neanderthals and a threat to their world view. Since it is politically problematic to directly attack half the country, the elite attack the NRA as a proxy. That's why the NRA always gets blamed when some tragedy like this happens.
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That?s how it is. Drug companies and doctors issuing prescription are being blamed for the opioid crisis.
 
Everything is a crisis -- oh my god ... the .. the .. constitution ..  most of the people hiding behind the constitution have barely even read it

Everything is life is about studying incentives -- except for the suckers who fall for the myths

NRA exists for the NRA - not about anyone else -and they will plumb to great depths to justify never having to look in the mirror 

NRA representative Dana Loesch told the Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington, D.C.: ?Many in legacy media love mass shootings. You guys love it. ? You love the ratings. Crying white mothers are ratings gold.?

In 2000, LaPierre said President Bill Clinton wanted Americans to be killed by guns, to build support for gun control laws.

In 2012, LaPierre blamed the slaughter of 20 little children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut on ?gun-free zones? at schools.

These are guys who don't care about you, me or the constitution . They just use it as a convenient shield when they have to. 

 
"who cares, I don't rent a car from them anyways "
"they are too small to matter"
"I get better discounts on enterprise from other sources "

what else am I missing

One of the world's largest rental-car companies is ending a key partnership with the NRA

Enterprise Holdings, one of the world's largest rental-car companies, is ending a key partnership with the National Rifle Association.
The conglomerate, which operates Enterprise Rent-A-Car, Alamo Rent a Car, and National Car Rental, said it ended a discount program available to NRA members, effective March 26.
That follows a move by First National Bank earlier Thursday to end a credit-card promotion with the gun-advocacy group.
 
During the 1999 Columbine high school shooting, the school did in fact have an armed Sheriff's Deputy, Neil Gardner who was armed with .45 cal automatic pistol.  When alerted of the shooting he raced to the school and faced off against Eric Harris, who was armed with Hi Point 9mm carbine.  However, Deputy Neil Gardner had poor eyesight, was not wearing his prescription glasses, and engaged Eric Harris at distance of approx. 60 yards which caused his shots to miss.

We do not know the full reasons why Deputy Scot Peterson opted to take a defensive position instead of going after Nikolas Cruz.  We know Peterson (age 54) qualified for retirement, resigned, and isn't talking.  He is being made the fall guy by both Sheriff's department and Trump administration.  His home is now guarded by 6 Deputies.

I can only say that before we call Peterson a coward, consider the situation where a Deputy with 54 year old eyesight armed with pistol, is opposing an assailant at distance armed with rifle caliber carbine in hallways and classrooms full of students.  I think he should have made more effort, but we need be realistic with our expectations according to the scenario,

In the hypothetical scenario where you're armed with a glock opposing an assailant armed with AR15, would you engage the assailant with your pistol at distance of 60 yards inside a school hallway full of students?  The assailant doesn't care about collateral damage, but what about you?

Hypothetically if the assailant is standing still by himself like a paper target at distance of 20 yards, I'm ~90% confident at blowing his brains out with my 357 MAG.  I don't have that confidence if he is a moving target 60 yards away with bystanders all around.
 
spootieho said:
Funny how the NRA is taking so much heat for something that they had no part of.  What do they do?  They stick up for the constitution.  Apparently, that is evil.
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They don't stick up for the Constitution..they represent the interests of the gun manufacturers and fear based industries.  BUY YOUR ARMORED BACKPACKS NOW!
 
spootieho said:
eyephone said:
Hypothetical: if you only had a glock would you go after someone with an AR-15
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i dont think anyone truly knows until they are put in that situation. 

I bet a lot of people who say they would, actually wouldnt.

Ironically, i usually say that i would probably avoid the situation too, but when these things actually happen, im one of the people diving into danger helping others.  In my case, yeah i probably would go in if i had a glock.
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Agree with your there...fight or flight response...some people fight...most people flight.
 
momopi said:
During the 1999 Columbine high school shooting, the school did in fact have an armed Sheriff's Deputy, Neil Gardner who was armed with .45 cal automatic pistol.  When alerted of the shooting he raced to the school and faced off against Eric Harris, who was armed with Hi Point 9mm carbine.  However, Deputy Neil Gardner had poor eyesight, was not wearing his prescription glasses, and engaged Eric Harris at distance of approx. 60 yards which caused his shots to miss.

We do not know the full reasons why Deputy Scot Peterson opted to take a defensive position instead of going after Nikolas Cruz.  We know Peterson (age 54) qualified for retirement, resigned, and isn't talking.  He is being made the fall guy by both Sheriff's department and Trump administration.  His home is now guarded by 6 Deputies.

I can only say that before we call Peterson a coward, consider the situation where a Deputy with 54 year old eyesight armed with pistol, is opposing an assailant at distance armed with rifle caliber carbine in hallways and classrooms full of students.  I think he should have made more effort, but we need be realistic with our expectations according to the scenario,

In the hypothetical scenario where you're armed with a glock opposing an assailant armed with AR15, would you engage the assailant with your pistol at distance of 60 yards inside a school hallway full of students?  The assailant doesn't care about collateral damage, but what about you?

Hypothetically if the assailant is standing still by himself like a paper target at distance of 20 yards, I'm ~90% confident at blowing his brains out with my 357 MAG.  I don't have that confidence if he is a moving target 60 yards away with bystanders all around.
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Also agree...bringing a pistol to a rifle fight is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. 
 
Irvinecommuter said:
Also agree...bringing a pistol to a rifle fight is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. 
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Never underestimate a blade.  An adult male assailant can cover distance of 7 yards and stab you in 1.5 seconds.  Since blades tend to make smaller wound channels, skilled assailants are trained to stab you multiple times to disable you quickly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill
 
fortune11 said:
Seriously , are we financially savvy people now going to pretend the world s largest asset manager taking a stance won?t  matter , even incrementally ?  Reminds me of that giant  bird and the sand and something something ...

This is how all these things turn - bit by bit , till it becomes a cascading effect over a longer period and the tipping point happens ...

And then when it finally happens , we can all claim we knew it all along in hindsight
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You really think Blackrock cares?  This is all PR for mass consumption. If the stocks make money, they will own it.  If they don't, they won't. Most have to since those stocks are members of the indexes. Russel 3000 in particular.  All for show, nothing will change.
 
Burn That Belly said:
Irvinecommuter said:
momopi said:
During the 1999 Columbine high school shooting, the school did in fact have an armed Sheriff's Deputy, Neil Gardner who was armed with .45 cal automatic pistol.  When alerted of the shooting he raced to the school and faced off against Eric Harris, who was armed with Hi Point 9mm carbine.  However, Deputy Neil Gardner had poor eyesight, was not wearing his prescription glasses, and engaged Eric Harris at distance of approx. 60 yards which caused his shots to miss.

We do not know the full reasons why Deputy Scot Peterson opted to take a defensive position instead of going after Nikolas Cruz.  We know Peterson (age 54) qualified for retirement, resigned, and isn't talking.  He is being made the fall guy by both Sheriff's department and Trump administration.  His home is now guarded by 6 Deputies.

I can only say that before we call Peterson a coward, consider the situation where a Deputy with 54 year old eyesight armed with pistol, is opposing an assailant at distance armed with rifle caliber carbine in hallways and classrooms full of students.  I think he should have made more effort, but we need be realistic with our expectations according to the scenario,

In the hypothetical scenario where you're armed with a glock opposing an assailant armed with AR15, would you engage the assailant with your pistol at distance of 60 yards inside a school hallway full of students?  The assailant doesn't care about collateral damage, but what about you?

Hypothetically if the assailant is standing still by himself like a paper target at distance of 20 yards, I'm ~90% confident at blowing his brains out with my 357 MAG.  I don't have that confidence if he is a moving target 60 yards away with bystanders all around.
Click to expand...

Also agree...bringing a pistol to a rifle fight is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.
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I wholeheartedly disagree. Even the Sheriff disagree (who later suspended him).

The problem is, this man is a SWORN officer, to uphold the law, to serve and to protect, even if it meant putting his life on the line. That was his duty. Otherwise, take off your badge and give the gun to another school administrator who is willing to deputize himself in the name of saving lives.

1) as an officer, this man swore an oath to serve and to protect.  He failed to do so.

2) as an officer assigned to the school's resource, he is specifically trained for these types of scenarios. Otherwise, why was he put there in the first place?

3) he is 57 years old, he is about to retire. This is a cake-walk job to do, compared to running around the streets catching criminals. He got too conditioned to a boring job of just watching kids go to school day in and day out. When it came time to display courage, he froze up. His training (or lack thereof) was not good enough.

4) "Modern active shooter procedures changed after the Columbine High School shooting in 1999 when officers were trained to wait for SWAT officers to respond and take out a threat. The officers in that shooting allowed the suspects to continue their rampage without being challenged."

5) "Officers are now trained to go toward gunfire, even if alone and outgunned, because research has shown the presence of law enforcement can slow down or stop a suspect, potentially bringing the death toll down and preventing future deaths. "


Haha, this cop recently in 2015 filed a complaint against a Sheriff who wanted to dissolve his position.

"He was writing to complain that Williams wanted to dissolve the Resident On Campus Security (ROCS) Program at Atlantic Technical College, which, he wrote, would have eliminated one of his two jobs patrolling campuses, as he was also working at Stoneman Douglas High School.

?I submit to the School Board members that despite Chief Williams failure to supervise the ROCS program, we still everyday protect our kids and school campuses," he said in the email.


So this cop REALLY wanted to keep his job because he even said it was necessary to "protect our kids" yet when his calling came, he FAILED to do exactly what he was preaching. Definition of coward right there. Fighting for a cause politically but when it came time to act, he was just a faux cop.
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I agree that he didn't do his job...I am just talking about human nature.
 
Burn That Belly said:
If I was the parent and my daughter were in that building and I saw that cop huddling around, I would tell that cop:

1) Give me your BADGE (so I don't get killed by other cops later)

2) And give me your gun. I'm going in to save MY kids.

3) Even though I understand they are NOT your kids but they are MY kids.
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Uh yeah. The fact is our public schools are turning into a school in a third world country. (Anything goes)

It?s really sad and sick.
 
Irvinecommuter said:
spootieho said:
Funny how the NRA is taking so much heat for something that they had no part of.  What do they do?  They stick up for the constitution.  Apparently, that is evil.
Click to expand...

They don't stick up for the Constitution..they represent the interests of the gun manufacturers and fear based industries.  BUY YOUR ARMORED BACKPACKS NOW!
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Wrong. NRA represents its members.

Gun manufacturers are represented by:
The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI)  www.saami.org
The National Shooting Sports Foundation www.nssf.org
The National Sporting Goods Association www.nsga.org

Do you actually know anything about guns?

 
Happiness said:
Irvinecommuter said:
spootieho said:
Funny how the NRA is taking so much heat for something that they had no part of.  What do they do?  They stick up for the constitution.  Apparently, that is evil.
Click to expand...

They don't stick up for the Constitution..they represent the interests of the gun manufacturers and fear based industries.  BUY YOUR ARMORED BACKPACKS NOW!
Click to expand...
Wrong. NRA represents its members.

Gun manufacturers are represented by:
The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI)  www.saami.org
The National Shooting Sports Foundation www.nssf.org
The National Sporting Goods Association www.nsga.org

Do you actually know anything about guns?
Click to expand...

No...they absolute don't represent their members with respect to many issues...including gun control.
 
Our existing gun control laws would have prevented this tragedy, had law enforcement done its job.

ALL THE WARNINGS ABOUT NIKOLAS CRUZ

Nikolas Cruz?s dangerous and disturbing behavior was flagged repeatedly to authorities, both local and federal, over a span of two years starting in February 2016. But no one stopped him before he killed 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland. Here?s a time line of incidents where Cruz was reported to law enforcement. Many of the incidents involve the threat of a school shooting.

? Feb. 5, 2016: A Broward Sheriff?s Office deputy is told by an anonymous caller that Nikolas Cruz, then 17, had threatened on Instagram to shoot up his school and posted a photo of himself with guns. The information is forwarded to BSO Deputy Scot Peterson, a school resource officer at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

? Sept. 23, 2016: A ?peer counselor? reports to Peterson that Cruz had possibly ingested gasoline in a suicide attempt, was cutting himself and wanted to buy a gun. A mental health counselor advises against involuntarily committing Cruz. The high school says it will conduct a threat assessment.

? Sept. 28, 2016: An investigator for the Florida Department of Children and Families rules Cruz is stable, despite ?fresh cuts? on his arms. His mother, Lynda Cruz, says in the past he wrote ?hate signs? on his book bag and had recently talked of buying firearms.

? Sept. 24, 2017: A YouTube user named ?nikolas cruz? posts a comment stating he wants to become a ?professional school shooter.? The comment is reported to the FBI in Mississippi, which fails to make the connection to Cruz in South Florida.

? Nov. 1, 2017: Katherine Blaine, Lynda Cruz?s cousin, calls BSO to report that Nikolas Cruz had weapons and asks that police recover them. A ?close family friend? agrees to take the firearms, according to BSO.

? Nov. 29, 2017: The Palm Beach County family that took in Cruz after the death of his mother calls the Palm Beach Sheriff?s Office to report a fight between him and their son, 22. A member of the family says that Cruz had threatened to ?get his gun and come back? and that he has ?put the gun to others? heads in the past.? The family does not want him arrested once he calms down.

? Nov. 30, 2017: A caller from Massachusetts calls BSO to report that Cruz is collecting guns and knives and could be a ?school shooter in the making.? A BSO deputy advises the caller to contact the Palm Beach sheriff.

? Jan. 5, 2018: A caller to the FBI?s tip line reports that Cruz has ?a desire to kill people? and could potentially conduct a school shooting. The information is never passed on to the FBI?s office in Miami.

? Feb. 14, 2018: Nikolas Cruz attacks Stoneman Douglas High. Peterson, the school?s resource officer, draws his gun outside the building where Cruz is shooting students and staff. He does not enter.
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http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article201636649.html
 
It all depends. During the Vegas shooting the swat team took out that guy. It wasn?t robocop/Rambo that went to the hotel room.



Liar Loan said:
Our existing gun control laws would have prevented this tragedy, had law enforcement done its job.

ALL THE WARNINGS ABOUT NIKOLAS CRUZ

Nikolas Cruz?s dangerous and disturbing behavior was flagged repeatedly to authorities, both local and federal, over a span of two years starting in February 2016. But no one stopped him before he killed 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland. Here?s a time line of incidents where Cruz was reported to law enforcement. Many of the incidents involve the threat of a school shooting.

? Feb. 5, 2016: A Broward Sheriff?s Office deputy is told by an anonymous caller that Nikolas Cruz, then 17, had threatened on Instagram to shoot up his school and posted a photo of himself with guns. The information is forwarded to BSO Deputy Scot Peterson, a school resource officer at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

? Sept. 23, 2016: A ?peer counselor? reports to Peterson that Cruz had possibly ingested gasoline in a suicide attempt, was cutting himself and wanted to buy a gun. A mental health counselor advises against involuntarily committing Cruz. The high school says it will conduct a threat assessment.

? Sept. 28, 2016: An investigator for the Florida Department of Children and Families rules Cruz is stable, despite ?fresh cuts? on his arms. His mother, Lynda Cruz, says in the past he wrote ?hate signs? on his book bag and had recently talked of buying firearms.

? Sept. 24, 2017: A YouTube user named ?nikolas cruz? posts a comment stating he wants to become a ?professional school shooter.? The comment is reported to the FBI in Mississippi, which fails to make the connection to Cruz in South Florida.

? Nov. 1, 2017: Katherine Blaine, Lynda Cruz?s cousin, calls BSO to report that Nikolas Cruz had weapons and asks that police recover them. A ?close family friend? agrees to take the firearms, according to BSO.

? Nov. 29, 2017: The Palm Beach County family that took in Cruz after the death of his mother calls the Palm Beach Sheriff?s Office to report a fight between him and their son, 22. A member of the family says that Cruz had threatened to ?get his gun and come back? and that he has ?put the gun to others? heads in the past.? The family does not want him arrested once he calms down.

? Nov. 30, 2017: A caller from Massachusetts calls BSO to report that Cruz is collecting guns and knives and could be a ?school shooter in the making.? A BSO deputy advises the caller to contact the Palm Beach sheriff.

? Jan. 5, 2018: A caller to the FBI?s tip line reports that Cruz has ?a desire to kill people? and could potentially conduct a school shooting. The information is never passed on to the FBI?s office in Miami.

? Feb. 14, 2018: Nikolas Cruz attacks Stoneman Douglas High. Peterson, the school?s resource officer, draws his gun outside the building where Cruz is shooting students and staff. He does not enter.
Click to expand...
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article201636649.html
Click to expand...
 
Burn That Belly said:
If I was the parent and my daughter were in that building and I saw that cop huddling around, I would tell that cop:

1) Give me your BADGE (so I don't get killed by other cops later)

2) And give me your gun. I'm going in to save MY kids.

3) Even though I understand they are NOT your kids but they are MY kids.
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But that's not the scenario you were presented.

Obviously if it's our own kids we would do anything... even if we didn't have a gun... we would attempt to tackle that guy and just hope he misses.

I just don't think we can fairly assess the situation without being there ourselves, did he do his job... probably not... was he scared for his own life and also his family who would suffer if he would die... yes. I just don't think you can judge him that easily.
 
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