Obama ruining the country?

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[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1249516718][quote author="trrenter" date=1249515314]<strong>Now I didn't use 911 as a justification for anything.</strong> I said that it could have been Avoided if Clinton had taken Bin Laden out after the USS Cole attack.</blockquote>


<em>*Crap. In for a penny, in for a pound, I guess.*</em>



I am less sure about the cause and effect relationship of the removal of bin Laden on the ability of the Taliban / Al Qaeda to survive. The Taliban existed before bin Laden's ascendence in the organization, and its independent cell-like structure allow it to survive even as individual people and cells are picked off. Certainly bin Laden's money helped the Taliban / Al Qaeda (as did the US's), but it appears that they also get funding from other ventures (e.g., the sale of drugs and gems).



Also please recall that the causes of the September 11th terrorist attacks were studied by a bi-partisan Congressional commission that produced a voluminous report. I doubt that would have been necessary if the facile explanation of "It was all Bill Clinton's fault" was accurate.</blockquote>


I am not positive that 911 could have been avoided had Bin Laden been taken out either. It is evident that even though they are on the run they can still plan some attacks.



I do not Blame 911 solely on Bill Clinton I should have used the word "could" have averted. I do truly believe that more should have been done after the USS Cole attack. If you read the article I posted there is agreement there. There is absolutely no way to prove conclusively that had we not gone after Bin Laden that these attacks would not have occured. But it is harder to plan the attacks while you are runing and hiding with a million dollar bounty on your head.



My point is that certain people on this Board excuse and Justify everything Obama is donng by pointing out that it only needs to be done because of the last 8 years.



Some of the events from the previous 8 years are a continuation of what started say 12 years ago, 20 years ago even 100 years ago.



So if the standard response to anything Obama does is well it is all Bush's fault I will start responding it is all Clintons fault. Hell maybe I will blame George Washington.
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1249519006]<img src="http://www.bltserv.com/images/handshake300.jpg" alt="" />





Lets not forget who gave Saddam those weapons of mass destruction.

He sure didnt make them in his Easy Bake Oven. Thank you Ronald Reagan

and Big Don the Rummy.</blockquote>


It was George Washingtons fault!!!
 
OK you conservative Faux News Addicts. I know with all the money flowing from Big Pharma and the Health Care Companies. The "Base" is all giddy about going to battle against any change. Time to disrupt and talk about Birth Certificates and scream and yell in town meetings and send in the shills.



Those of us that are civil put up with George of the Jungle for 8 long years. You guys are freeking out after just 6 months. Have some patience.

You would call us un patriotic if we gave your President this much greif.
 
It's not Obama's fault, it's Bush's.



It's not Bush's fault, it's Clinton's.



It's not Clinton's fault, it's Bush the Elder's.



I blame it on George Washington. If not for him and those stupid Founding Fathers... we would all still be back in our respective countries and America would be the Native American gambling destination for the rest of the world.



Now back to the real discussion...
 
I can give my opinion on Cash for Clunkers.



It sucks!!!!



<a href="http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thegaggle/archive/2009/08/05/cash-for-clunker-s-impact-on-economy-and-environment-is-negligible.aspx">Cash for Clunkers' Impact on Economy and Environment Is Negligible </a>



This is a subsidy to the car companies and not just American companies.



A simple ROI would tell you moving from a fuel guzzler to a more fuel efficient car is the right move.



If you buy a 17k Ford focus with the clunkers money and you will walk out of the dealer with that car for about 12.5 K. Run the ROI in gas savings, the focus gets 35mpg. If you drive 20k miles a year you could save between $2,200 - $3,800 a year on gas alone. I will go with 3k as the average yearly savings on gas. Now consider the warranty on a new car so you are almost void of car repair bils. Lets be conservative and say a clunker would require $600 a year in repairs. So you save $3600 a year buy buying your new Ford Focus.



If your car payment is less then $300 a month for the Ford Focus you are actually saving money every month.



That is a pretty smart move even without the Clunkers program rebate.



<strong>So we are paying people not to be stupid I guess.</strong>



So somone planning to trade in a clunker gets a windfall at my childrens expense. They will be picking up the bill for this when they start paying taxes.
 
This is it! If you won't allow it to be blamed on GWB or any previous Presidents. Then you can't blame Obama either. This discussion is now officially over. The blame game is never ending. Blame it on the Asians for crossing the Bering Strait.
 
[quote author="reason" date=1249531622]This is it! If you won't allow it to be blamed on GWB or any previous Presidents. Then you can't blame Obama either. This discussion is now officially over. The blame game is never ending. Blame it on the Asians for crossing the Bering Strait.</blockquote>


Thats not going to sit well with the our Conservatives and Creationism.

Its all about god and white people. It cant have anything to do with Asians.

Those are the guys that attacked us at Pearl Harbor on Dec 7th. We must be afraid

of the next attack. Never appease your enemy. LOL.
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1249532826][quote author="reason" date=1249531622]This is it! If you won't allow it to be blamed on GWB or any previous Presidents. Then you can't blame Obama either. This discussion is now officially over. The blame game is never ending. Blame it on the Asians for crossing the Bering Strait.</blockquote>


Thats not going to sit well with the our Conservatives and Creationism.

Its all about god and white people. It cant have anything to do with Asians.

Those are the guys that attacked us at Pearl Harbor on Dec 7th. We must be afraid

of the next attack. Never appease your enemy. LOL.</blockquote>


Oh, that's right. How could I have forgotten. It's those lousy Asians, they're going to ruin our country. Buying up everything we hold dear.



Hey, guys. It's not the 4th or Memorial Day but lets hang our flag out on the porch. Lets remind them. This is America!
 
<strong>[quote author=trrenter Some of the events from the previous 8 years are a continuation of what started say 12 years ago, 20 years ago even 100 years ago.</strong>



</blockquote>


True, and everything came to a head during Bush's 8 years. That's not to say that everything was his fault. Just as Obama is not ruining the country. Obama was left with a country in crisis mode. Concluding that he is ruining the country when he was trying to save it from ruin (and taking the rest of the world with it) is rediculous, as rediculous as saying it's Washington's fault. I still haven't heard what the (short term) alternatives were to the actions he took. I can certainly agree that we need reform on many, many things. I don't think Obama is god though and didn't expect reform in 7 months and I don't expect reform on more than a few things. As has been discussed (finally) there are many more factors that contribute to the problems with our country that have been compounding for years and decades. Is it reasonable to hold Obama accountable for fixing all of those problems? Seems a bit unrealistic to me, unless Obama really is god. I never held him in such high regard.
 
I think the point is that when we talk about the Bank Bail out or the Health Care or Afghanastan or Korea or anything that is currently happening today the standard canned response is:

Its better then Bush. Or what about when Bush did this. Or Cheney blah blah blah. Couple that with the whole Fox news response it is hard to discuss any issue as it pertains to Obam and his current policies. That gets old after a while.
 
In my opinion Obama is trying to move to quickly.



When you rush to make important decesions they are usually not good decesions. Why did we have to fast track the stimulus package? The dems are freely admitting it is working as planned the never intended to spend all the money immediately. So if it was a slow moving plan what was the need to rush the plan? Maybe if we took more time crafting the bill it could have had a more immediate impact.



Why the rush to ge the healthcare bill through Congress? Slow down take your time think things through.



See my comments on Cash for Clunkers. That is just a stupid idea in my opinion. I am not worried about my taxes I worry about my kids and grandkids taxes.



I also have not seen or heard of the cuts we are making to pay for any of these projects. Which was a campaign promise.



So do I think he is ruining this country? No.



Do I think all of his decesions are going to have a positive impact. No.
 
[quote author="reason" date=1249536442][quote author="trrenter" date=1249536005]In my opinion Obama is trying to move to quickly.



When you rush to make important decesions they are usually not good decesions. Why did we have to fast track the <strong>stimulus package</strong>? The dems are freely admitting it is working as planned the never intended to spend all the money immediately. So if it was a slow moving plan what was the need to rush the plan? Maybe if we took more time crafting the bill it could have had a more immediate impact.



Why the rush to ge the healthcare bill through Congress? Slow down take your time think things through.



See my comments on Cash for Clunkers. That is just a stupid idea in my opinion. I am not worried about my taxes I worry about my kids and grandkids taxes.



I also have not seen or heard of the cuts we are making to pay for any of these projects. Which was a campaign promise.



So do I think he is ruining this country? No.



Do I think all of his decesions are going to have a positive impact. No.</blockquote>


Okay, here we go again. Have you forgotten the <strong>unaccountable </strong>billions upon billions of the stimulus package right before GWB terms ended? We still don't know where those tax dollars went. If you're going to pick on the current President. You can't ignore what his immediate predessor did also.



BTW, I am not a Democrat or a Republican.</blockquote>
 
[quote author="trrenter" date=1249535470]I think the point is that when we talk about the Bank Bail out or the Health Care or Afghanastan or Korea or anything that is currently happening today the standard canned response is:

<strong>Its better then Bush. Or what about when Bush did this. Or Cheney blah blah blah. </strong> Couple that with the whole Fox news response it is hard to discuss any issue as it pertains to Obam and his current policies. That gets old after a while.</blockquote>


It is exactly the same thing I have been trying to tell everyone. They have not pointed out how Obama's policies is benefitting our country. In the end if Obama screw up, it is Bush's fault. If Obama do just as bad, it is Bush's fault. I have not even mention anything about Bush even though there are certainly some costly mistakes he made. But many seems to be celebrating even if Obama screw up our economy, our healthcare, as long as we are not fighting a war.



There are so much discussions I still have to go through and provide my thoughts.
 
[quote author="Look4house" date=1249536667][quote author="trrenter" date=1249535470]I think the point is that when we talk about the Bank Bail out or the Health Care or Afghanastan or Korea or anything that is currently happening today the standard canned response is:

<strong>Its better then Bush. Or what about when Bush did this. Or Cheney blah blah blah. </strong> Couple that with the whole Fox news response it is hard to discuss any issue as it pertains to Obam and his current policies. That gets old after a while.</blockquote>


It is exactly the same thing I have been trying to tell everyone. They have not pointed out how Obama's policies is benefitting our country. In the end if Obama screw up, it is Bush's fault. If Obama do just as bad, it is Bush's fault. I have not even mention anything about Bush even though there are certainly some costly mistakes he made. But many seems to be celebrating even if Obama screw up our economy, our healthcare, as long as we are not fighting a war.



There are so much discussions I still have to go through and provide my thoughts.</blockquote>


Well if that isn't calling the kettle black. Get over yourself. If you hadn't started off with such an antagonistic thread maybe we could have avoided most of this meaningless discourse. It's only taken us 5 pages to get some consensus that Obama (alone) is not ruining the country.
 
[quote author="The_Maestro" date=1249537346][quote author="Look4house" date=1249536667][quote author="trrenter" date=1249535470]I think the point is that when we talk about the Bank Bail out or the Health Care or Afghanastan or Korea or anything that is currently happening today the standard canned response is:

<strong>Its better then Bush. Or what about when Bush did this. Or Cheney blah blah blah. </strong> Couple that with the whole Fox news response it is hard to discuss any issue as it pertains to Obam and his current policies. That gets old after a while.</blockquote>


It is exactly the same thing I have been trying to tell everyone. They have not pointed out how Obama's policies is benefitting our country. In the end if Obama screw up, it is Bush's fault. If Obama do just as bad, it is Bush's fault. I have not even mention anything about Bush even though there are certainly some costly mistakes he made. But many seems to be celebrating even if Obama screw up our economy, our healthcare, as long as we are not fighting a war.



There are so much discussions I still have to go through and provide my thoughts.</blockquote>


Well if that isn't calling the kettle black. Get over yourself. If you hadn't started off with such an antagonistic thread maybe we could have avoided most of this meaningless discourse. It's only taken us 5 pages to get some consensus that Obama (alone) is not ruining the country.</blockquote>


Hahaha! This is a good thread afterall.
 
[quote author="reason" date=1249537815]You know, something? After this thread, we're going to all need healthcare to treat our high blood pressure.</blockquote>


Ahh, who cares. We're doomed anyway.
 
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