Obama ruining the country?

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[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1249648153][quote author="Look4house" date=1249647566] Unfortunately, no one is providing free medical care. </blockquote>


<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Bos_taurus_taurus_pooh.jpg/300px-Bos_taurus_taurus_pooh.jpg" alt="" />



Been to the ER lately? Nobody gets turned down. And us with insurance are covering that cost with higher premiums.</blockquote>


We've finally come to the "end" of this discussion. THE END!
 
Hey anyone want to talk about <strong>Paygo</strong>?



Where did we cut the 3 billion for Cash for Clunkers to pay for that program?
 
[quote author="trrenter" date=1249683004]Hey anyone want to talk about <strong>Paygo</strong>?



Where did we cut the 3 billion for Cash for Clunkers to pay for that program?</blockquote>


<a href="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/25898.html">http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/25898.html</a>



<blockquote>After rejecting a series of amendments that would have effectively paralyzed the program, the Senate approved the House-passed bill on a 60-37 vote, <strong>taking $2 billion from a renewable energy program to keep the dollars flowing to consumers and car dealerships. </strong>

</blockquote>
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1249683851][quote author="trrenter" date=1249683004]Hey anyone want to talk about <strong>Paygo</strong>?



Where did we cut the 3 billion for Cash for Clunkers to pay for that program?</blockquote>


<a href="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/25898.html">http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/25898.html</a>



<blockquote>After rejecting a series of amendments that would have effectively paralyzed the program, the Senate approved the House-passed bill on a 60-37 vote, <strong>taking $2 billion from a renewable energy program to keep the dollars flowing to consumers and car dealerships. </strong>

</blockquote></blockquote>


That was a quick discussion anyone else got another topic.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1249647528]To be honest... until the government can prove that they can be efficient and responsible with my tax dollars... I don't want them messing around with my health.



This goes for WHOEVER is the president... even George Washington.</blockquote>


Well, IHO, I'm a little lost inasmuch as the government won't be involved in your healthcare so long as you are employed (and IIRC, you are). I'm also lost because I think you moved to Irvine so that your kids could go to good schools. Schools that are run by the government. You may have also moved to Irvine because you appreciate personal safety, and that personal safety - both fire and police protection - are provided by the government. Use tap water? That's government water. Flush a toilet? That's a government sewage system. Drive on a highway? That's a government highway. You get my point.



Personally, when it comes to my healthcare, I would take the government over <a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/5709/#121245">this guy.</a>
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1249685981][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1249647528]To be honest... until the government can prove that they can be efficient and responsible with my tax dollars... I don't want them messing around with my health.



This goes for WHOEVER is the president... even George Washington.</blockquote>


Well, IHO, I'm a little lost inasmuch as the government won't be involved in your healthcare so long as you are employed (and IIRC, you are). I'm also lost because I think you moved to Irvine so that your kids could go to good schools. Schools that are run by the government. You may have also moved to Irvine because you appreciate personal safety, and that personal safety - both fire and police protection - are provided by the government. Use tap water? That's government water. Flush a toilet? That's a government sewage system. Drive on a highway? That's a government highway. You get my point.



Personally, when it comes to my healthcare, I would take the government over <a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/5709/#121245">this guy.</a></blockquote>


Eva lets take the school argument above.



The government runs the school and people are moving to Irvine because of the schools. If the goverment runs the schools shouldn't they all perform at a high level?



Would it be acceptable for people in Irvine to have better healthcare then people in East LA?



I have driven the 5 freeway from the Mexican Boarder past Sacramento. It is a great freeway, except for the entire time you drive through LA. You notice the difference the minute you get into LA and the minute you are out of LA. Why is that stretch of the five in such disrepair and so narrow?



Police and Fire are functions of the State not the Federal Govt.



Not all roads and schools are in the best shape. Some are great and some are really, really bad.



Would we want to say that if the govt. provided healthcare?
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1249685981][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1249647528]To be honest... until the government can prove that they can be efficient and responsible with my tax dollars... I don't want them messing around with my health.



This goes for WHOEVER is the president... even George Washington.</blockquote>


Well, IHO, I'm a little lost inasmuch as the government won't be involved in your healthcare so long as you are employed (and IIRC, you are). I'm also lost because I think you moved to Irvine so that your kids could go to good schools. Schools that are run by the government. You may have also moved to Irvine because you appreciate personal safety, and that personal safety - both fire and police protection - are provided by the government. Use tap water? That's government water. Flush a toilet? That's a government sewage system. Drive on a highway? That's a government highway. You get my point.



Personally, when it comes to my healthcare, I would take the government over <a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/5709/#121245">this guy.</a></blockquote>
Well... in that case... why not just let the government run EVERYTHING. Why should we even work, let's just let the government take care of all of us. You get my point.



I understand that the government is involved in many aspects of our lives, but I also know that the government is very wasteful. There are some things that the government naturally should be involved as outlined by the Constitution, others that are marginal and others that should be off-limits. I'm not saying healthcare should be off-limits, I'm just saying that until they prove to me they can take care of the things they are currently "taking care" of... why give them more (*cough* Social Security *cough*)?



Do you personally feel that your tax dollars are being used wisely? Do you actually like bailing out all these banks, auto companies etc etc out of your pocket? I've worked in the medical billing industry... I've seen all the red-tape with just the HMOs/PPOs and doctors out there and the kinds of shenanigans getting pulled by both sides just so they can get their money... it's only going to get worse if the government gets involved.



Universal Healthcare sounds great... executing it correctly is another story and I don't feel the government is up to the task. Heck... I like the idea of Star Trek Transporter Rooms... let's get the government to work on that too. /hyperbole
 
The fact is that some form of Healthcare reform WILL HAPPEN. No matter how much the over bloated Insurance Companies and Big Pharma spend. Its going to happen.

So watch as the "Brown Shirts" that the Health Care industry sends in to these town hall meetings attempt to use the bully tactics of the previous century. Just watch and learn as this country moves away from a few GIANT corporations controlling who lives and who dies when they get sick. Watching the mentality of people who have been brainwashed by the lies that have been spread is amazing. We worry about our country being attacked by terrorists.

We spend almost a Trillion on a country in the Middle East that could give a damn and wants us to leave. But we cant all get together and pool our insurance money in a not for profit

national health insurance fund ? What makes this so hard to understand ?

Why has the entire modern world embraced this reality and not the United States ?

Again. NAME A MODERN DEVELOPED COUNTRY THAT DOES NOT HAVE NATIONALIZED HEALTH CARE ?
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1249691393]NAME A MODERN DEVELOPED COUNTRY THAT DOES NOT HAVE NATIONALIZED HEALTH CARE ?</blockquote>


<img src="http://veryaweso.me/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/somalia-i.jpg" alt="" />

<img src="http://veryaweso.me/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/somalia-ii.jpg" alt="" />
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1249691393]The fact is that some form of Healthcare reform WILL HAPPEN. No matter how much the over bloated Insurance Companies and Big Pharma spend. Its going to happen.

So watch as the "Brown Shirts" that the Health Care industry sends in to these town hall meetings attempt to use the bully tactics of the previous century. Just watch and learn as this country moves away from a few GIANT corporations controlling who lives and who dies when they get sick. Watching the mentality of people who have been brainwashed by the lies that have been spread is amazing. We worry about our country being attacked by terrorists.

We spend almost a Trillion on a country in the Middle East that could give a damn and wants us to leave. But we cant all get together and pool our insurance money in a not for profit

national health insurance fund ? What makes this so hard to understand ?

Why has the entire modern world embraced this reality and not the United States ?

Again. NAME A MODERN DEVELOPED COUNTRY THAT DOES NOT HAVE NATIONALIZED HEALTH CARE ?</blockquote>


We spent money foolishly in Iraq (says Blt) and now we must spend money foolishly on Nationalized Health care.



Who cares if that means 40% taxes or that the other MODERN DEVELOPED COUNTRIES that offer Nationalized health care are having trouble managing them.



We should have it too. Ignore the fact that it isn't better except for the fact that everyone will have it.



Also ignore that is not the plan that is currently being discussed in congress or by Obama.
 
[quote author="reason" date=1249711585]And when we spend money foolishly in the Iraq War. Did anyone ask, "GWB ruining the country?"</blockquote>


No, I really didn't need to ask.
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1249685981]

Personally, when it comes to my healthcare, I would take the government over <a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/5709/#121245">this guy.</a></blockquote>


I think you and everyone should know what Obama is proposing before you make the decision. All I can say is healthcare is much more complicated than running a fire department or running public schools(assuming you gave a thumbs up to our public school system).
 
[quote author="reason" date=1249711585]And when we spend money foolishly in the Iraq War. Did anyone ask, "GWB ruining the country?"</blockquote>


I have yet to see you comment on anything on the current policies worthy to respond. This is not the place for you to cry how bad you hated George Bush. Why didn't you run for Senate 4 years ago when George Bush is wasting our tax money?
 
[quote author="Look4house" date=1249716016][quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1249685981]

Personally, when it comes to my healthcare, I would take the government over <a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/5709/#121245">this guy.</a></blockquote>


I think you and everyone should know what Obama is proposing before you make the decision. All I can say is healthcare is much more complicated than running a fire department or running public schools(assuming you gave a thumbs up to our public school system).</blockquote>


Yeah you are right - what ever Obama has in mind has to be worse than what Rick Scott was doing. After all, Scott was so good at defrauding the government that it only resulted in the <strong>largest civil settlement in the history of the United States</strong>.
 
I don't know where to post this, so I'll post it here. Sarah Palin chimes in on the upcoming Obama "Death Panel".



<a href="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g426GkD-vTsEj6z5wZHcBngGbjvgD99UDEJG0">http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g426GkD-vTsEj6z5wZHcBngGbjvgD99UDEJG0</a>



<blockquote>"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's <strong>'death panel' </strong>so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil," Palin wrote.



</blockquote>


Who are they paying to come up with this garbage?
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1249726064]I don't know where to post this, so I'll post it here. Sarah Palin chimes in on the upcoming Obama "Death Panel".



<a href="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g426GkD-vTsEj6z5wZHcBngGbjvgD99UDEJG0">http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g426GkD-vTsEj6z5wZHcBngGbjvgD99UDEJG0</a>



<blockquote>"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's <strong>'death panel' </strong>so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil," Palin wrote.



</blockquote>


Who are they paying to come up with this garbage?</blockquote>


Seriously, the woman talks and all I hear is "blah, blah, blah, blah". I guess the new conservative mantra is "If you have no idea what to say, make something up quick and keep talking, be sure to yell and try to sound very convincing". I swear if someone yells something, half the country immediately says, "Yea!"
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1249726064]I don't know where to post this, so I'll post it here. Sarah Palin chimes in on the upcoming Obama "Death Panel".



<a href="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g426GkD-vTsEj6z5wZHcBngGbjvgD99UDEJG0">http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g426GkD-vTsEj6z5wZHcBngGbjvgD99UDEJG0</a>



<blockquote>"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's <strong>'death panel' </strong>so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil," Palin wrote.



</blockquote>


Who are they paying to come up with this garbage?</blockquote>


If you think what she said is "garbage", please tell us why? Please tell me what you know about Obama's health plan that is so brilliant. On the other hand, if you don't know anything about healthcare or Obama's proposal, please don't say others are talking garbage.
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1249691393]The fact is that some form of Healthcare reform WILL HAPPEN. </blockquote>
Nobody knows whether reform will happen. We have been talking about healthcare reform every elections. Healthcare reform SHOULD happen.



[quote author="bltserv" date=1249691393]We worry about our country being attacked by terrorists.</blockquote>
Why didn't you tell the President that he is stupid to keep the Department of Homeland Security. Fire half of the staff and save us some tax money.



[quote author="bltserv" date=1249691393] But we cant all get together and pool our insurance money in a not for profit

national health insurance fund ? What makes this so hard to understand ?</blockquote>
It is very hard to understand how the government can run a national health care system when our social security is approaching bankruptcy. Medicare funding could be exhausted by 2017. The government inefficiencies and bureaucracy will create more frustration, driving up cost and most likely, decrease quality of care.



[quote author="bltserv" date=1249691393]Why has the entire modern world embraced this reality and not the United States ?

Again. NAME A MODERN DEVELOPED COUNTRY THAT DOES NOT HAVE NATIONALIZED HEALTH CARE ?</blockquote>
Entire modern world embraced nationalized healthcare? China is not considered a modern developed country? How is health care in China with 1.3 billion people? Nationalized health care is almost impossible to be successful in such a diverse and populated country like the United States. Is it easier to mange 10 people effectively than managing 100 people? There are many countries with nationalized health care that fail.
 
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