Obama ruining the country?

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[quote author="Look4house" date=1249462484][quote author="momopi" date=1249423931]That was a response to your original claim that "graduates are easily >$100,000 in debt when they are out of college". This is simply untrue for vast majority of college grads. Only for certain professions, such as medical school, you'd find average debt of just under $140k.



Perhaps you should have specified "medical school graduates are easily >$100k in debt when they are out of college" ? Then the question would be "How to make medical school more affordable"?</blockquote>


Why don't you show me how much it cost to go to UCLA for 4 years for a state and an out of state resident? If the student didn't get any grants or scholarships, how much debt would one need to bear? Okay, I know you are too busy to look it up. Average of $25,000/yr(resident), $39,000/yr(non-resident). And we are not talking about private universities. Professional degrees? Let's forget about medical school. How about law school, tuition alone $35,000/yr (resident). MBA? Tuition $31,000/yr.



If you don't think the cost of education is out of hand, maybe you are either super rich or don't have to worry about sending your kids to college.</blockquote>


The problem is people buy the brand and don't think about the cost in a realistic fashion. Just like medical care. They also now lump all their living expenses into the cost of going to school.



Fee/tuition cost of UCLA, $3049/quarter. non-resident $10,606/quarter. (3 quarters/year)

Fee cost of UC Fullerton: $2331/semester. Non Resident $11,160/year max. (2 semesters/yr)

Fee cost of Santa Monica college to complete your general ed requirements and transfer to UCLA or USC: $26/credit. 60 semester (90 quarter) credits of transferrable credit (about 20 classes) = $1560. About two years worth of work.



So it's your choice: UCLA ~$9000/yr as a resident, Fullerton ~$4600/year. or Santa Monica at $800/yr and then transfer to UCLA, USC or any other UC/SC school if you can cut it. Total cost for fee/tuition between UCLA and Santa Monica for a 4 year term ~$20,000. That's $5000/yr to graduate from a top school in the country. Unless you really think the basic art history course is going to be that much a superior education creating opportunity to attend UCLA when you are majoring in engineering or something else.



And yes, that is after the horrible, nasty fee increase of the last budget.





Frankly, I only care about the resident rate. If the non-resident rate is $30,000 a year for UCLA, I don't care because it is our CALIFORNIA taxes paying for it so frankly, they can pay us back.
 
[quote author="Look4house" date=1249458235][quote author="bltserv" date=1249443582]But Bill Clinton just got those 2 girls released from North Korea.

Wonder why George W. Bush didn`t go instead ? Reason: Never send a boy to do a man`s job. </blockquote>


Reason: You didn't know Obama send Clinton with 10 million cash to free our citizens? You either think Kim Jong II is stupid or he has come into senses that he has done something terribly wrong.



Communists don't negotiate. This is a show of PR. Too bad, some people think Bill Clinton is a hero. It can fool someone without knowlege of what communism is all about.</blockquote>


<img src="http://www.pissedonpolitics.com/mad_cow.jpg" alt="" />
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1249467594][quote author="Look4house" date=1249458235][quote author="bltserv" date=1249443582]But Bill Clinton just got those 2 girls released from North Korea.

Wonder why George W. Bush didn`t go instead ? Reason: Never send a boy to do a man`s job. </blockquote>


Reason: You didn't know Obama send Clinton with 10 million cash to free our citizens? You either think Kim Jong II is stupid or he has come into senses that he has done something terribly wrong.



Communists don't negotiate. This is a show of PR. Too bad, some people think Bill Clinton is a hero. It can fool someone without knowlege of what communism is all about.</blockquote>


<img src="http://www.pissedonpolitics.com/mad_cow.jpg" alt="" /></blockquote>


The cows are back! I've waited a long time for this! Thanks no_vas!
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1249463982][quote author="Look4house" date=1249458235][quote author="bltserv" date=1249443582]But Bill Clinton just got those 2 girls released from North Korea.

Wonder why George W. Bush didn`t go instead ? Reason: Never send a boy to do a man`s job. </blockquote>


Reason: You didn't know Obama send Clinton with 10 million cash to free our citizens? You either think Kim Jong II is stupid or he has come into senses that he has done something terribly wrong.



Communists don't negotiate. This is a show of PR. Too bad, some people think Bill Clinton is a hero. It can fool someone without knowlege of what communism is all about.</blockquote>


Damn Communists. We must be very afraid. Build a bomb shelter. God they have taken over Viet Nam. China. The Soviet Union.

We need to send in troops. These damn red devils will ruin our lives. We need to invade Cuba and Venezuela right away.

Your either with us or your our enemy.



Look4House

Do me a favor. Spread your meaningless fear someplace else. [del]This group is [/del] <strong>I am </strong>way too smart for your lies.</blockquote>


"Clinton worked magic with his diplomacy" has nothing to do with the original discussion. If you want to use it as a mean to degrade Bush and treat Obama as our Savior, please start another thread. To sum it up, I hope you don't change your mind someday about the real threat of N. Korea to the world, it would not be a good thing if that happens. Finally, I chose to live in a world that has 3 dimensions, if someone wants to live their life by closing their eyes and following directions, keep doing it as long as you are happy. I am glad all those political science classes I took did open my eyes.



Now back to what we should discuss regarding Obama's policies and put this Bill Clinton is a man to rest.
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1249461894][quote author="green_cactus" date=1249461488][quote author="Look4house" date=1249458235][quote author="bltserv" date=1249443582]But Bill Clinton just got those 2 girls released from North Korea.

Wonder why George W. Bush didn`t go instead ? Reason: Never send a boy to do a man`s job. </blockquote>


Reason: You didn't know Obama send Clinton with 10 million cash to free our citizens? You either think Kim Jong II is stupid or he has come into senses that he has done something terribly wrong.



Communists don't negotiate. This is a show of PR. Too bad, some people think Bill Clinton is a hero. It can fool someone without knowlege of what communism is all about.</blockquote>


Wasn't this whole thing a negotiation in itself? I haven't hear of an actual monetary exchange (link please), but even if that were the case it would still be considered a negotiation.</blockquote>


That's the problem, Look4House has no links, just a bunch of right wing drivel. I find nothing helpful in his unfounded accusations and complete bias.</blockquote>


First of all, it's funny how you can say it is a bunch of right wing drivel. Saying Kim Jong II is a mad communist dictator is right wing? Your definition of right wing is certainly differernt from others. If you find nothing helpful in what I said, why do you keep coming back? I thought I politely ask you a long time ago to please not respond if you have nothing to contribute. You can read, but please don't respond. There are other interesting threads that would be more suitable for you.
 
[quote author="Look4house" date=1249468748][quote author="tmare" date=1249461894][quote author="green_cactus" date=1249461488][quote author="Look4house" date=1249458235][quote author="bltserv" date=1249443582]But Bill Clinton just got those 2 girls released from North Korea.

Wonder why George W. Bush didn`t go instead ? Reason: Never send a boy to do a man`s job. </blockquote>


Reason: You didn't know Obama send Clinton with 10 million cash to free our citizens? You either think Kim Jong II is stupid or he has come into senses that he has done something terribly wrong.



Communists don't negotiate. This is a show of PR. Too bad, some people think Bill Clinton is a hero. It can fool someone without knowlege of what communism is all about.</blockquote>


Wasn't this whole thing a negotiation in itself? I haven't hear of an actual monetary exchange (link please), but even if that were the case it would still be considered a negotiation.</blockquote>


That's the problem, Look4House has no links, just a bunch of right wing drivel. I find nothing helpful in his unfounded accusations and complete bias.</blockquote>


First of all, it's funny how you can say it is a bunch of right wing drivel. Saying Kim Jong II is a mad communist dictator is right wing? Your definition of right wing is certainly differernt from others. If you find nothing helpful in what I said, why do you keep coming back? I thought I politely ask you a long time ago to please not respond if you have nothing to contribute. You can read, but please don't respond. There are other interesting threads that would be more suitable for you.</blockquote>


Excuse me? I fail to see when you became the owner of a thread on the IHB. You asked a question (at least I think it was a question), and no, sorry, I don't think that Obama is destroying the country. So I am answering your question, but you seem to think that anyone who disagrees with your opinion should not respond. Go back to FOX News where everyone agrees with you because it is very apparent that everyone here does not. While I would say that there are a wide variety of opinions here at the IHB, there are not a lot of people who ask those who disagree to not respond. What is your definition of "something to contribute" because from my standpoint, you have contributed nothing to your original question.
 
If your in Georgia. You got nothing to worry about. The communists are a long way away. Here in California they are everywhere.

Santa Monica. Berkeley. These Red Devils are everywhere around us. They are so evil.



NoVas even knows of some Communists that are about to take over our milk supply here in California.

These damn Red thieves have destroyed the price of milk locally.



We need to send out the troops and take these dangerous devils down. Land the Marines in Santa Monica.
 
[quote author="Look4house" date=1249303677][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1249302139] My point was that things were promised to change and there's been no change for the better from Obama. </blockquote>


Imagine if our country get attack by terrorists again, I don't know what would happen, it's just too scary. </blockquote>


Not to be rude, but this comment proved in fact you are a FOX News sheeple.
 
[quote author="green_cactus" date=1249376635]One point that we are missing is whether health care should be run as a for-profit public corporation. That is, with a fiduciary responsibility to maximize profit for its share holders. For example, is it ethical to offer a $78mn bonus to the CEO while denying live saving care to others?



Another issue is the employer based health insurance model we have in this country. That is, the fact that as long as your are employed you can only afford to get health care. That is, if the employer is even willing to absorb the premiums he will incur when he hires someone with pre-existing conditions. Especially for small business this can be a huge burden.</blockquote>


You hit the nail on the head when it comes to my two major beefs with out current method of health care.



1. Why are people willing to put their lives into the hands of companies that are FOR PROFIT? Doesn't that kind of mean they need to cover as little as possible to reap more profit? They hire doctors and nurses to find ways to deny coverage to people. I am talking INSURANCE COMPANIES. All this system does is make health care delivery about paperwork, which sucks resources. It is just stupid to think insurance company execs are so ethical to actually care about the health and welfare of Americans. BULL!



2. The fact is that the days have passed where people have the same job for 20 years. People are now temp workers. They are independent consultants. They are contractors. They are self employed. And how many millions get laid off or fired, and then are unemployed? Which means that these millions and millions do not have access to this employer based system. Take it from the wife of an independent consultant for 10 years, trying to get individual health coverage is a NIGHTMARE.



I just think our entire system needs to be rethought.
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1249469550]Excuse me? I fail to see when you became the owner of a thread on the IHB. You asked a question (at least I think it was a question), and no, sorry, I don't think that Obama is destroying the country. So I am answering your question, but you seem to think that anyone who disagrees with your opinion should not respond. Go back to FOX News where everyone agrees with you because it is very apparent that everyone here does not. While I would say that there are a wide variety of opinions here at the IHB, there are not a lot of people who ask those who disagree to not respond. What is your definition of "something to contribute" because from my standpoint, you have contributed nothing to your original question.</blockquote>


What did I say to make you label me as right wing?



I have only asked 1 person not to respond. Not because he disagrees with my views, but he told me to shut up and pay attention, and not to be a Fox news junkie, saying I am a right wing drivel and complete bias. Did I ever say anything like it to anyone? Perhaps, if you have some evidence to back up your claims, I am glad to respond.



I am more than happy if you can provide a counter point with details how the massive spending can make our country better in the future rather than saying Bush was the biggest failure in the history of mankind(it's not the point).
 
[quote author="Look4house" date=1249470824][quote author="tmare" date=1249469550]Excuse me? I fail to see when you became the owner of a thread on the IHB. You asked a question (at least I think it was a question), and no, sorry, I don't think that Obama is destroying the country. So I am answering your question, but you seem to think that anyone who disagrees with your opinion should not respond. Go back to FOX News where everyone agrees with you because it is very apparent that everyone here does not. While I would say that there are a wide variety of opinions here at the IHB, there are not a lot of people who ask those who disagree to not respond. What is your definition of "something to contribute" because from my standpoint, you have contributed nothing to your original question.</blockquote>


What did I say to make you label me as right wing?



I have only asked 1 person not to respond. Not because he disagrees with my views, but he told me to shut up and pay attention, and not to be a Fox news junkie, saying I am a right wing drivel and complete bias. Did I ever say anything like it to anyone? Perhaps, if you have some evidence to back up your claims, I am glad to respond.



I am more than happy if you can provide a counter point with details how the massive spending can make our country better in the future rather than saying Bush was the biggest failure in the history of mankind(it's not the point).</blockquote>




Ok, let's start over. You seem to have a particular problem with education, what EXACTLY is your problem and how would you propose to fix it? I would also have to add that other people have problems with several of the issues that Obama is specifically trying to fix, but if you could clearly explain your problem and prescription for education, I might have a little better idea of where you are coming from.
 
[quote author="gypsyuma" date=1249470599]

You hit the nail on the head when it comes to my two major beefs with out current method of health care.



1. Why are people willing to put their lives into the hands of companies that are FOR PROFIT? Doesn't that kind of mean they need to cover as little as possible to reap more profit? They hire doctors and nurses to find ways to deny coverage to people. I am talking INSURANCE COMPANIES. All this system does is make health care delivery about paperwork, which sucks resources. It is just stupid to think insurance company execs are so ethical to actually care about the health and welfare of Americans. BULL!



2. The fact is that the days have passed where people have the same job for 20 years. People are now temp workers. They are independent consultants. They are contractors. They are self employed. And how many millions get laid off or fired, and then are unemployed? Which means that these millions and millions do not have access to this employer based system. Take it from the wife of an independent consultant for 10 years, trying to get individual health coverage is a NIGHTMARE.



I just think our entire system needs to be rethought.</blockquote>


It is undeniable that there are major flaws in our healthcare system when patients are told what they need and don't need. There is no question that private insurances, HMOs are chipping away freedoms and money from everyone.The better healthcare model should put doctors and patients with more control. I don't see a government run health insurance is the solution when politics will be part of the decision making process. We do need to ensure that healthcare is affordable and majority of people is willing to pay for it. We should increase funding to provide preventative and primary care and programs to avoid costly hospitalizations and emergency rooms visits. There are a lot more to healthcare, but it is not an easy fix, or we would have fix it already.
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1249365943][quote author="CapitalismWorks" date=1249365565][quote author="tmare" date=1249296535][quote author="Look4house" date=1249295680][quote author="tmare" date=1249294959]Oh, and it was so much better off after Bush finished his two terms. My thoughts are: shut up and pay attention. Be smart, not a FOX News sheep.</blockquote>


That is such a constructive comment or is it a joke? It's okay you are a Bush hater. Is our country better off heading this Obama's direction? Pay attention to what? You found throwing money away enjoyable? You like to pay higher taxes and get less from the government? You want your health insurance cost to go higher? Please tell me how to be smart? If you can only say something useless, then please ignore the thread. Thank you.</blockquote>


Ok, not a joke. I am NOT okay with a country that spends the most on health care and gets to be #37 in the world for quality of health care. I AM okay with someone trying to do something about it, rather than continuing to feed the insurance industries massive profits while they deny coverage to people who need health care. I am NOT okay with a government that has saddled our children with trillions in debt to fight a war that never needed to be fought. Somehow the huge debt incurred for a needless war during the Bush years was okay, but debt incurred in order to benefit our planet, our people's health and education is not okay with the right wing idiots who want to criticize Obama for having a beer. I guess I'm supposed to ignore this thread because I don't agree with you. Typical Fox News junkie. Be smart, open your eyes, get your sources from many places and try, really try to be a human being. Those are my thoughts and you asked for them.</blockquote>


How do you rank quality of care? According to everything I read our healthcare is tops as measured by survival rates following diagnosis.



There is no doubt the the health insurance business is a joke. I have hard time figuring out how the government is going to help, when they caused this problem in the first place.</blockquote>




Try <a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN0765165020080108">this</a>. I don't know what you are reading, but the vast majority of info I have read does not support the idea that the US is tops in anything related to healthcare. I'm not exactly sure how the government created the problem either, it seems that when it comes to healthcare, a profit based system really doesn't work. I do not think it's the doctors faults, it is truly an insurance company problem.



And for the record, I am incredibly perplexed by a society that blindly allowed billions of dollars to be spent on another country when there really wasn't any true threat. The amount of money spent destroying and rebuilding Iraq could have fixed both our healthcare problems as well as our substandard education system. We didn't hear too many voices objecting to these billions of dollars spent out of the country, but as soon as we start discussing actually making our own country better, everyone wants to cry that it's unfair. We all benefit from the improvements being discussed by the Obama administration. Is he perfect? No. Is there a perfect solution to any of these problems? Probably not. I just think it's refreshing that there's actually a discussion now about fixing so many problems that have been ignored for so long, from our infrastructure to education to healthcare. Ignoring these things as previous administrations have done (not just Bush) has led us to where we are today.</blockquote>


Your link specifically referenced access to health care as the key component. Since more than 10%+ of the population has limited access to health care (at best) these preventable death figures are skewed. Having relatives in Germany and France, as well as close friends in Australia, all of us agree the U.S. healthcare is the best. Plain and simple we have the best trained doctors in the world.



Milton Friedman had a produced a great essay on the cost issues related to healthcase. I suggest you start there. Here is a link to the short version. http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/3459466.html
 
[quote author="Look4house" date=1249471740][quote author="gypsyuma" date=1249470599]

You hit the nail on the head when it comes to my two major beefs with out current method of health care.



1. Why are people willing to put their lives into the hands of companies that are FOR PROFIT? Doesn't that kind of mean they need to cover as little as possible to reap more profit? They hire doctors and nurses to find ways to deny coverage to people. I am talking INSURANCE COMPANIES. All this system does is make health care delivery about paperwork, which sucks resources. It is just stupid to think insurance company execs are so ethical to actually care about the health and welfare of Americans. BULL!



2. The fact is that the days have passed where people have the same job for 20 years. People are now temp workers. They are independent consultants. They are contractors. They are self employed. And how many millions get laid off or fired, and then are unemployed? Which means that these millions and millions do not have access to this employer based system. Take it from the wife of an independent consultant for 10 years, trying to get individual health coverage is a NIGHTMARE.



I just think our entire system needs to be rethought.</blockquote>


It is undeniable that there are major flaws in our healthcare system when patients are told what they need and don't need. There is no question that private insurances, HMOs are chipping away freedoms and money from everyone.The better healthcare model should put doctors and patients with more control. I don't see a government run health insurance is the solution when politics will be part of the decision making process. We do need to ensure that healthcare is affordable and majority of people is willing to pay for it. We should increase funding to provide preventative and primary care and programs to avoid costly hospitalizations and emergency rooms visits. There are a lot more to healthcare, but it is not an easy fix, or we would have fix it already.</blockquote>


Never going to happen as long as Billions are being spent on Bribing/Lobbying of our elected officials. The Health Insurance and Pharma companies are fighting for their lives.



<a href="http://www.necn.com/Boston/Politics/2009/08/03/Broadside-Health-care-reform/1249337422.html">http://www.necn.com/Boston/Politics/2009/08/03/Broadside-Health-care-reform/1249337422.html</a>
 
If this is an open discussion. Why the hell is it only a 'good discussion' when Look4house finds someone agreeing with him. If look4house wants this thread to be anti-Obama then re-name the thread title "Only anti-Obama comments here".



And if you talk crap about President Obama and his so call taxes. Why is it not relevant when GWB spent (wasted) billions upon billions on the Iraq War? If our tax dollars are going to be wasted. I rather it be wasted on the citizens of the USA.
 
Just look at the title of this thread: "Obama ruining the country?" The answer is "NO". GWB ruined the country in the last 8 years. He left a mess for Obama to fix. Obama is only in Office for less than a year. And you expect him to fix 8 years of freaking mess?



Change the title of the thread.
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1249471318]



Ok, let's start over. You seem to have a particular problem with education, what EXACTLY is your problem and how would you propose to fix it? I would also have to add that other people have problems with several of the issues that Obama is specifically trying to fix, but if you could clearly explain your problem and prescription for education, I might have a little better idea of where you are coming from.</blockquote>


If I have the crystal ball, I would be in Washington working with Mr. Obama. But let me say that our education system is broken for years. And funding is always the issue. Teachers are the one of the most underrated profession. It is hard to recruit the best when we pay teachers an avergae of $50,000. Teachers don't need to be the smartest academically, but they need to be the best in bringing out the potentials of each student, promote teamwork, encourage critical thinking, and prepare students as leaders. We need to ensure candidates find the job to be satisfying and rewarding. An incentive-based pay scale has been proposed and teachers will be rewarded based on productivity. We want to encourage teachers and students work together and communicate effectively.



Cost of higher education is spiraling out of control. And it is an extemely difficult issue to correct. I am not a big fan that college sports generate big time revenue and help coaches make millions and there should be laws/tax laws (capitations) to channel some of these money into the classroom for students and professors.
 
[quote author="Look4house" date=1249475756][quote author="tmare" date=1249471318]



Ok, let's start over. You seem to have a particular problem with education, what EXACTLY is your problem and how would you propose to fix it? I would also have to add that other people have problems with several of the issues that Obama is specifically trying to fix, but if you could clearly explain your problem and prescription for education, I might have a little better idea of where you are coming from.</blockquote>


If I have the crystal ball, I would be in Washington working with Mr. Obama. But let me say that our education system is broken for years. And funding is always the issue. Teachers are the one of the most underrated profession. It is hard to recruit the best when we pay teachers an avergae of $50,000. Teachers don't need to be the smartest academically, but they need to be the best in bringing out the potentials of each student, promote teamwork, encourage critical thinking, and prepare students as leaders. We need to ensure candidates find the job to be satisfying and rewarding. An incentive-based pay scale has been proposed and teachers will be rewarded based on productivity. We want to encourage teachers and students work together and communicate effectively.



Cost of higher education is spiraling out of control. And it is an extemely difficult issue to correct. I am not a big fan that college sports generate big time revenue and help coaches make millions and there should be laws/tax laws (capitations) to channel some of these money into the classroom for students and professors.</blockquote>


<img src="http://mariopiperni.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/cow-methane.jpg" alt="" />
 
[quote author="Look4house" date=1249475756][quote author="tmare" date=1249471318]



Ok, let's start over. You seem to have a particular problem with education, what EXACTLY is your problem and how would you propose to fix it? I would also have to add that other people have problems with several of the issues that Obama is specifically trying to fix, but if you could clearly explain your problem and prescription for education, I might have a little better idea of where you are coming from.</blockquote>


If I have the crystal ball, I would be in Washington working with Mr. Obama. But let me say that our education system is broken for years. And funding is always the issue. Teachers are the one of the most underrated profession. It is hard to recruit the best when we pay teachers an avergae of $50,000. Teachers don't need to be the smartest academically, but they need to be the best in bringing out the potentials of each student, promote teamwork, encourage critical thinking, and prepare students as leaders. We need to ensure candidates find the job to be satisfying and rewarding. An incentive-based pay scale has been proposed and teachers will be rewarded based on productivity. We want to encourage teachers and students work together and communicate effectively.



Cost of higher education is spiraling out of control. And it is an extemely difficult issue to correct. I am not a big fan that college sports generate big time revenue and help coaches make millions and there should be laws/tax laws (capitations) to channel some of these money into the classroom for students and professors.</blockquote>


I am a teacher. I will be starting my 21st year this month. I completely agree that our system is broken. I agree with you on every point you have made but there are huge problems with trying to base teacher's pay on "productivity". The measures of productivity are extremely complex and we don't want a system that benefits those who teach in schools where the kids are already well equipped and easy to teach. This only discourages teachers from teaching the most difficult students. I definitely don't have all of the answers and I can become very frustrated with those who try to make the issue simple, it is not.

The sports for education system is also broken, but we live in a society where the best paid people are entertainers, and sports figures are essentially just entertainers. How to fix that one is another problem that I don't have any answers. I think that the issue of higher education and costs is actually not too far away from the issue of health care, the only difference is that everyone needs health care and it is only those of us lucky enough to have an early education that was good enough (or a family that could afford it) that are able to think about these things.
 
[quote author="reason" date=1249473152]If this is an open discussion. Why the hell is it only a 'good discussion' when Look4house finds someone agreeing with him. If look4house wants this thread to be anti-Obama then re-name the thread title "Only anti-Obama comments here".



And if you talk crap about President Obama and his so call taxes. Why is it not relevant when GWB spent (wasted) billions upon billions on the Iraq War? If our tax dollars are going to be wasted. I rather it be wasted on the citizens of the USA.</blockquote>


I have never say it is good discussion when someone agrees. I just cannot find any good counter discussions with details that Obama is helping our country other than reading Bush is evil. Even if you approve the President to waste money on the country, are you okay that many millions of our tax money is going to bonuses for bank executives. It is a failure to not closely monitor where these money goes. But why are you okay that the President is wasting money on anything? That is called mismanagement.



[quote author="reason" date=1249473483]Just look at the title of this thread: "Obama ruining the country?" The answer is "NO". GWB ruined the country in the last 8 years. He left a mess for Obama to fix. Obama is only in Office for less than a year. And you expect him to fix 8 years of freaking mess?



Change the title of the thread.</blockquote>


I can't believe how many of you keep distorting the theme of the discussion. Just by saying Obama has not, did not, will not ruin the country doesn't mean a thing. We can't changed what has happened in the past. Obama promised changed for the better. Please explain how we are better so far (albeit only 7 months) with all that he has done. You can argue and give him credit that the economy does seem to stabilize a bit. The concern is we are spending so much money, a lot are probably unnecessary to so call stimulate the economy will be felt by every citizen down the road with inflation, higher taxes, and cutting public services, healthcare. Tell me it is not going to happen and why please.
 
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