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@yal:

He doesn't encourage his teammates, he admonishes them. He doesn't involve them in the offense unless he feels like it. He's not selfish, but he's not other aware either.

He's a contrast to someone like LeBron or Magic that gets everyone else involved.

And that's fine, that's the same way Jordan was but Jordan knew it was more than himself... Kobe probably does too but just doesn't want to admit it. That's why he took max money, despite the fact he's making way more money outside of his NBA contract.

Guys like Duncan and Dirk want their team to win, Kobe just wants Kobe to win. He's not getting that 6th ring and that's sad because if he dialed it back a bit, he could probably be getting his 7th.
 
@Qwerty, Kobe is 45% career fg shooter.  This year he HAS TO force shots because he does not have any help.  thus, he is shoot 39%...  in my mind, this is laker's management fault.

@IHO, did you even listen to Stephen A Smith's comment.  he wakes up at 5:30 and shooting bball and practice.  Then he expects everyone to do same thing.  AGAIN, THIS IS LAKERS.  LAKERS expectation is champion.  if a player (like dhoward) just come here to fool around and get pay check, then lakers is not a right place for them.  bottom line, kobe's teammate needs to understand the lakers culture and understand lakers is about winning and championship.  (SADLY, not this year :( )

Magic is a PG and he needs to dish out the ball.  we never expect pf/c to dish out 10 assists a game.  Kobe is a shooting guard.  we shouldn't expect to dish out a lot of assists a game.

One last thing about money.  Everyone have the right to earn max money as possible.  I ASSUME you will not take a pay cut, so your company can be more competitive.
 
yaliu07 said:
One last thing about money.  Everyone have the right to earn max money as possible.  I ASSUME you will not take a pay cut, so your company can be more competitive.
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i agree with this, i have never criticized kobe for taking as much as he could. the lakers were dumb enough to pay it. he clearly is not worth it from a basketball standpoint. lebron never had any help in cleveland and was always a very efficient player, after his rookie season in cleveland he never shot less than 47%.
 
yaliu07 said:
One last thing about money.  Everyone have the right to earn max money as possible.  I ASSUME you will not take a pay cut, so your company can be more competitive.
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You assume wrong.

I've mentioned this before, I've not taken raises and have cut my bonuses so that my staff gets better increases because I understand the importance of retaining talent.

LBJ is not a PG, Durant is not a PG

I think you need to look up some books on true leadership. Kobe is not one. Just because one guy wakes up at 5:30 doesn't mean that's going to lead to championships. You need to get your biases out of the way. How did Miami go to the Finals 4 times and win 2 of them? Not because of Kobe-like attitude. What about the Colorado incident? Just tells you about his character.

My contention about money, Kobe's 'brand" is worth so much more than Dirk's or Duncan's, yet he chose to use team payroll. He could have worked out some deal to give him more later rather than now, but he doesn't think that way... and that's fine, I "assume" many are like that too... but if you are already making millions outside of your team's payroll and you really want to win another ring, why not help? That's what LBJ did in Miami and again when he went back to Cleveland.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
yaliu07 said:
One last thing about money.  Everyone have the right to earn max money as possible.  I ASSUME you will not take a pay cut, so your company can be more competitive.
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You assume wrong.

I've mentioned this before, I've not taken raises and have cut my bonuses so that my staff gets better increases because I understand the importance of retaining talent.

LBJ is not a PG, Durant is not a PG

I think you need to look up some books on true leadership. Kobe is not one. Just because one guy wakes up at 5:30 doesn't mean that's going to lead to championships. You need to get your biases out of the way. How did Miami go to the Finals 4 times and win 2 of them? Not because of Kobe-like attitude. What about the Colorado incident? Just tells you about his character.

My contention about money, Kobe's 'brand" is worth so much more than Dirk's or Duncan's, yet he chose to use team payroll. He could have worked out some deal to give him more later rather than now, but he doesn't think that way... and that's fine, I "assume" many are like that too... but if you are already making millions outside of your team's payroll and you really want to win another ring, why not help? That's what LBJ did in Miami and again when he went back to Cleveland.
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are you serious want to compare leadership between Kobe, LBJ and KD.  Kobe has 5 rings.  LBJ 2.  KD 0.  btw, KD only career avg 3.5 asts.  and i have absolute no respect to LBJ.  LBJ left clevland b/c he wants an easy ring. He GAVE UP on his teammates.  That's NOT a true leader.

and dont take my word.  listen to MJ on LBJ.  start at 2:05 and the best sentence is at 2:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzcuUgFxn0k
 
Kobe would not have won any of those rings without the players and coach around him, yet he ostracized them. You don't even remember when Kobe threatened to go to other teams unless the Lakers gave in.

Even Phil Jackson knows about Kobe's attitude... I notice you don't bring that up. And he was the only coach he could win with.
 
yaliu07 said:
That's what LBJ did in Miami and again when he went back to Cleveland.
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actually i dont think lebron took a paycut when he went back to cleveland. he said he was done taking pay cuts.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Kobe would not have won any of those rings without the players and coach around him, yet he ostracized them. You don't even remember when Kobe threatened to go to other teams unless the Lakers gave in.

Even Phil Jackson knows about Kobe's attitude... I notice you don't bring that up. And he was the only coach he could win with.
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I think we can make same comments w/ MJ.  MJ can't win before pippen gets there.  MJ didn't win without phil jackson.  MJ didn't win any championship in washington.

i remember phil's book in year 2004 after the detriot piston won the championship.  i remember phil called kobe "uncoachable".  but, did you remember that phil coached him again and won 2 championship.  did you also phil almost coached him again before intercepted by Mike Antonio.

based on these actions, i dont think there is anything wrong between kobe and phil

and bottom line.  kobe trust players that he has respect.  For example dfisher.  players have to earn kobe' respect.  they are PROFESSIONAL athletics.  Kobe is NOT suppose to be there and babysit them.
 
qwerty said:
yaliu07 said:
That's what LBJ did in Miami and again when he went back to Cleveland.
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actually i dont think lebron took a paycut when he went back to cleveland. he said he was done taking pay cuts.
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+1 , Lebron signed a two year deal with an option to opt out. By signing only a two year deal, he can get more money once the nba signs a new tv deal. (Analysts predicts the max deals for players will increase due to the new tv deal)
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Kobe would not have won any of those rings without the players and coach around him, yet he ostracized them. You don't even remember when Kobe threatened to go to other teams unless the Lakers gave in.

Even Phil Jackson knows about Kobe's attitude... I notice you don't bring that up. And he was the only coach he could win with.
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Same can be said about MJ. (without Scottie and Phill)

Btw- We can tell you don't like Kobe. It's okay, I don't like Dwight and you do.
 
I don't like Dwight very much either... I just think it's funny that when he was coming to LA, everyone loved him and then when he left it was a 180.

As for LBJ, his 2-year contract was $42m... he could have got more. Yes, he only did 2 years so that he has options and also so that he can sign a higher max but I would rather have LBJ at $42m than Kobe at $50m.
 
yaliu07 said:
are you serious want to compare leadership between Kobe, LBJ and KD.  Kobe has 5 rings.  LBJ 2.  KD 0.  btw, KD only career avg 3.5 asts.
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I love it when Kobe fans try to spin the "rings" as proof of leadership. It's not just the rings. Compare Kobe's first 10 years in the league to LBJ's and you will see that they are close. Or better yet, let's take a contemporary, someone who came in around the same time as Kobe and is still playing with the same team, Tim Duncan. Same number of rings and it's a given that he has more positives about himself than Kobe.
  and i have absolute no respect to LBJ.  LBJ left clevland b/c he wants an easy ring. He GAVE UP on his teammates.  That's NOT a true leader.
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You don't think Kobe hasn't given up? You ever hear him badmouth Smush Parker and Kwame? You don't remember when he wanted Phil and Shaq out and got it? So yes, Kobe didn't leave LA, but he threatened to if he didn't get better players or if management didn't get rid of players he didn't like... that's a dictator, a bully, not a leader. Please look up the definition of leader. A leader is not defined by titles or accolades, its by actions.
and dont take my word.  listen to MJ on LBJ.  start at 2:05 and the best sentence is at 2:20
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So first Steven A Smith and now MJ? Guys who never coached or played on the same team as Kobe? Yeah... like I said, read Phil's comments on Kobe. He was part of the reason why he retired after the first time he coached the Lakers. Sure, he came back, but he still calls him "uncoachable".

Do you think Kobe is better than MJ? I think that answer will end this discussion.
 
I love it when Kobe fans try to spin the "rings" as proof of leadership.
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NBA is all about the ring. 

You ever hear him badmouth Smush Parker and Kwame? You don't remember when he wanted Phil and Shaq out and got it?
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according to shaq, he left lakers by his own choice.  he does NOT have a bad relationship between him and kobe.  Lakers management wants him to take a paycut.  i think it was from 30 mil to 22 mil and he is NOT willing to do that.  I am at work and i will link the video as proof tonight.

Do you really really want to bring Kwame Brown into this topic.  Do you really really want to defend Kwame Brown?

So first Steven A Smith and now MJ?
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I will value their comments than anybody on this forum.  these people make living on basketball.  me, you, eyephone are just basketball fan.

Do you think Kobe is better than MJ? I think that answer will end this discussion.
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unfortunately, i think MJ is better than Kobe.  however, Kobe is NOT far behind MJ.

despite our basketball difference, you do know that i still LOVE u
 
easy easy guys.. it's simple

MJ > than everybody.  They tried.. but didn't come close.  Just watching MJ you know he was way better.. and his playoff stats spoke for themselves. 

I also find it hard to respect LBJ.. left CAVs to take the easier road in Miami.. only to bolt back after they suspiciously got two top picks in a row.  ;)

Kobe is kobe.. never was a great leader.  Always just worked hard and hopefully that gained the respect of his teammates as to why he is the way he is.  I would say LBJ is a better leader than Kobe.. but I wouldn't put LBJ up there either.  Remember the film room incident when the coach would never call out LBJ.. until david west finally called him out for not playing defense and Mike brown was like.. yea yeah i know.  lol.  Dude is just as coddled and RG3. 
 
yaliu07 said:
I love it when Kobe fans try to spin the "rings" as proof of leadership.
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NBA is all about the ring. 
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And that's why LBJ had to leave Cleveland. No one really wants the Ewing, Malone, Stockton, Barkley legacy.

But rings doesn't necessarily mean leadership... or even sportsmanship.
Do you really really want to bring Kwame Brown into this topic.  Do you really really want to defend Kwame Brown?
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I'm not defending Kwame. What I'm challenging is your so-called "respect" and "giving up on teammates". Kobe has dissed more players than LBJ.
So first Steven A Smith and now MJ?
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I will value their comments than anybody on this forum.  these people make living on basketball.  me, you, eyephone are just basketball fan.
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I'm not comparing my opinions to theirs... I'm comparing Phil Jackson's, someone who coached Kobe, and players who have played WITH Kobe... their comments have higher value than an analyst and someone who's never played a whole season with Kobe.
unfortunately, i think MJ is better than Kobe.  however, Kobe is NOT far behind MJ.
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"Think?". MJ's rookie season stats beat Kobe's MVP season's stats by a noticeable margin.
despite our basketball difference, you do know that i still LOVE u
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It's not that I don't recognize Kobe's talent, and what he's done this season after an Achilles injury and at his age is remarkable... but sadly, there will be no more rings for the Lakers until Kobe retires or changes who he is. That could have been sooner than later if Kobe took less money and had a better team personality... but until then, you can always watch the Clippers.
 
About Shaq, he has to say those things now, because he needs to protect his image for his job at TNT, but back then, the truth was told.
 
him and kobe never got along.. but knew they needed each other at the time.  Sad.. they were probably the best duo ever to not play that long together.
 
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