Lambert Ranch in Irvine

[irvinehomeshopper]

Living and working on Cal Tran properties are for squatter folks like me and for you fine people to intrude into my sooty open space and having to pay $million for it I just can't comprehend.

Turtle Rock by far has the larger lot sizes and well balanced with open space, topography and natural landscape. El Camino and old northwood have the largest lots in all of Irvine but the landscape in the neighborhoods is too rigid, engineered and predictable therefore I hate them. Woodbridge is much more affordable with density driven products but laid in a non gridded and a much pleasant picturesque manner along curvilinear streets and echoes the soft edges of the lakes.

This is well thought out and I would welcome engaging you on the pros and cons of Turtle Rock.  In fact, I will comment.  I love Turtle Rock's lot sizes.  We looked at the area.  Zoned to great schools.  Close to everything.  What we don't like is a formal living and dining room...we want a great room.  Also, the landscaping in most of the resales needed major renovation to turn it into something we would like, not to mention the kitchens, bathrooms and flooring.  All told, we would have to purchase an already pricey home and then basically gut the inside and outside to the tune of over 300k plus.  Not a great value proposition for us. 

But then you follow up your lucid, helpful comment with this self-righteous, defensive, passive-aggressive drivel.  It's actually your M.O. And very predictable, but still unwelcome.

I can't afford any of them and just being a sour grape living in a cardboard box clustered around a shopping-cart court. Allow me to dream here wishing that someday I too can be in your class being able to afford an over priced home on Cal Tran properties.

 

[OCgasman]

Interesting! The reason for the great room is due to the lack of property size in depth and width to fit the formal spaces. Many homes in Turtle Rock have formal living and dining rooms in addition to the Family/nook/kitchen to the rear of the home with view and access to the rear yard. How is the Family/Nook/ kitchen different from today's great room ? Many of the homes have 3CWG too. If you think the formal living and dining is wasteful that is one thing but you think the preferred lifestyle  of today is a great room then why wouldn't the family/nook/ kitchen combo satisfy todays lifestyle?

I guess the difference is that the older homes usually have a modest kitchen and family room. My wife loves to cook and wants a big gourmet kitchen with tons of counter space and a large island with a nice powerful 6 burner range.  I also have an idea on what I would like in terms of home theater, networking and automation and these older family rooms are too small for what I envision and are woefully lacking in the structural wiring.  That means at the very least I have to tear out the drywall just for network cabling.  A formal living room would go unused in my family and be a waste.  A formal dining room would be rarely used, maybe for homework when my daughter gets older and invites friends over.

The 3CWG would be heaven.  No argument from me.  LR only offers 2CWG with a tandem to call it a 3 car garage.  It's not the same.  And I'm guessing most buyers will option the tandem spot to interior space, so in effect 2CWG.  One of the compromises, albeit not really high on my black list.  Plus, I'm thinking that street parking might not be that big of a hassle since all homes in LR are SFR with a driveway.

I do wish the setback from the street was bigger with a true front yard, but again, one of those compromises. 

The only place that has no compromises in Irvine is Shady.  I love Shady.  Wish I could live there.  Would take Shady over a beachfront home in Newport any day of the week.  I still look at homes in Shady on redfin sometimes and drool.  That's why I still play powerball.

 

[rkp]

Interesting! The reason for the great room is due to the lack of property size in depth and width to fit the formal spaces. Many homes in Turtle Rock have formal living and dining rooms in addition to the Family/nook/kitchen to the rear of the home with view and access to the rear yard. How is the Family/Nook/ kitchen different from today's great room ? Many of the homes have 3CWG too. If you think the formal living and dining is wasteful that is one thing but you think the preferred lifestyle  of today is a great room then why wouldn't the family/nook/ kitchen combo satisfy todays lifestyle?

the great room featured in many of the newer homes is much much bigger than the family/nook/kitchen combo found in the older houses of turtle rock.  i know you are smart about building and it is your profession so i am really surprised by this statement: The reason for the great room is due to the lack of property size in depth and width to fit the formal spaces.

most of these lots are 50x100 which is the same as most of the 1990s lots that had formal living areas and dining areas.  point is that the great room concept isnt because a living room or dining room cant fit but rather because many buyers dont prefer those rooms and want larger kitchens and family rooms.  just look at woodbury where the lot sizes are pretty equal.  you have 5000 sq ft lots with houses like san marino and 5000 sq ft lots with houses like rosemoor and mille fleurs

 

[rkp]

Interesting! The reason for the great room is due to the lack of property size in depth and width to fit the formal spaces. Many homes in Turtle Rock have formal living and dining rooms in addition to the Family/nook/kitchen to the rear of the home with view and access to the rear yard. How is the Family/Nook/ kitchen different from today's great room ? Many of the homes have 3CWG too. If you think the formal living and dining is wasteful that is one thing but you think the preferred lifestyle  of today is a great room then why wouldn't the family/nook/ kitchen combo satisfy todays lifestyle?

This is so cool --- a couple of years ago as I was shopping for a new home in Irvine this BK guy told me something similar.  Described how much better those older homes with a wider footprint "lived".  I can remember protesting that I did not want to spend the money to bring a 1990's home up to 2010 spec --- he explained to me that it really didn't cost as much as you think, and to make it less painless I should line up the reno work right after closing before I moved in.

Boy was he right!  I ended up in a 3CWG home that has a grand double door entrance with soaring ceilings, a formal dining room to impress our fancy friends, and a wide open family/nook/kitchen.  And I literally showed my contruction guy the glossy 2010 TIC collection brochure and said --- "my LV bag toting wife wants it to look just like this".  And when he was done it looked just like that!  Living there for a couple of years now, that BK guy was so right --- he really understood little things that made a home livable.

IHS, it sounds like you must have read some of BK's posts, too?  I only come back and read TI hoping he will come back and help educate us again.

patrick, your house sounds like our friends.  not theirs but exact same floorplan:http://www.redfin.com/CA/Northridge/20852-Vercelli-Way-91326/home/8130989

its an awesome house but like everything, there are down sides.  house is behind the 3 car garage, while it has a wide kitchen that opens up to the family room, the actual family room is really small.  i would prefer a 2 car but roomy garage with front door visible from street and the family room to be about 5 feet wider and it would be a dream house.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

To do a formal living room and dining room the lot width has to be extra wide. 21' or 31' for a 2 car or 3 car respectively. The formal living spaces at a minimum would be 16' next to the side of the garage. In addition there must be circulation hall space of 4'-5' or foyer in between the formal rooms and garage. Sideyards are 10' total. The stairs is about 4' too often adjacent to the side of the garage to not to block the rear of the garage from having a man door.

21+ 16 + 5 + 10 + 4 = 56' wide lot for a 2 car garage

add another 10' for a 3CWG = 66' wide lot.

50' wide lot is not really sufficient to get a formal living and dining room. Great room is the only solution for the super narrow lot 50' and under.

IHO is right a 3CWG meant a wide and spacious lot extinct in today's standard.

Buying a $million home without the formal living/ dining is like buying a 2 seater Bentley or taking your wife out to a romantic dinner but skimping on the dessert.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

While it may shock some of you... I totally agree with IHS... part of why builders use Great Rooms is because of smaller lot width and to allow them to make excuses why you don't need separate dining/living rooms.

In the width of a 3CWG lot, you can fit from left to right, a dining room, a kitchen, a nook and a family room... in a 2CWG lot... one of those has to go.

Are you going to tell me that if it cost the same to get a home with a Great Room plus a separate dining area, you would just get the Great Room? And if I remember correctly, there are some larger homes in Turtle Rock that have a kitchen/nook/family combo that matches the size of today's Great Rooms. I don't think renos would cost $300k... you can find a sizeable TR home for about $900k + $100k in renos would probably end up giving you a better home/location than $1mil on a LR home.  I think you can even find some 3CWGs in TR for the low $1m range.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

Greatroom is for those who can't afford the real house with everything. " I don't use the living room" is certainly a way to make yourself feel better. I don't use or need a driveway either because I have just 2 cars to fit into a 2 car garage. This is why a motorcourt house is a perfect dream house for me.

 

[Arman]

Are you going to tell me that if it cost the same to get a home with a Great Room plus a separate dining area, you would just get the Great Room? And if I remember correctly, there are some larger homes in Turtle Rock that have a kitchen/nook/family combo that matches the size of today's Great Rooms. I don't think renos would cost $300k... you can find a sizeable TR home for about $900k + $100k in renos would probably end up giving you a better home/location than $1mil on a LR home.  I think you can even find some 3CWGs in TR for the low $1m range.

At Lambert Ranch, we liked both Grove 1 and Grove 2 plans. One of the drawbacks of Grove 1 was the presence of a formal dining room, and one of the attractions of Grove 2 was the option to convert the dining room into an office, an option we went with. So, for me, the presence of a formal dining room is a strong negative, when that room could otherwise be used for something more useful.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

The home without a formal dining room and having a detached casita may be perfect for you but there are still families who still communicate and would like to converse over dinner in a formal room and not be distracted by the TV, noise in the kitchen and mess everywhere. During the holidays families get together over dinner all dressed up with formal plate settings and floral arrangement. The Norman Rockwell Americana tradition is still important for many families.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

You should go to Pasadena and drop some loose change in his basket. I heard he is playing some awesome guitar outside the Barnes and Noble.

Greatroom is for those who can't afford the real house with everything. " I don't use the living room" is certainly a way to make yourself feel better. I don't use or need a driveway either because I have just 2 cars to fit into a 2 car garage.

I couldn't afford the house with everything in Irvine.  So I packed up my toys and went to find it somewhere else. It was either that or make the compromise.  That BK guy taught me I would be happier not compromising, and he was right.  But if I had a $1M budget, I could have found that everything house in Irvine --- and I'd still be there to antagonize RC.

Just tell me you went to some open houses in Northwood Pointe or Turtle _____ this weekend, rkp --- and I'll leave you alone forever. 

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

Somewhere in IHB I read the difference between a mobile home and a real house is the formal living and dining room. Did you hear that from BK too Pstar?

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

No kidding? You actually found good public schools outside of Irvine. I know the crummy education will be lacking and your kid will be back in Irvine soon to attend IVC or UCI. Outside of Irvine you have to wear bullet proof vests I heard and I know how difficult to get them with LV or Hello Kitty logos.

Greatroom is for those who can't afford the real house with everything. " I don't use the living room" is certainly a way to make yourself feel better. I don't use or need a driveway either because I have just 2 cars to fit into a 2 car garage.

I couldn't afford the house with everything in Irvine.  So I packed up my toys and went to find it somewhere else. It was either that or make the compromise.  That BK guy taught me I would be happier not compromising, and he was right.  But if I had a $1M budget, I could have found that everything house in Irvine --- and I'd still be there to antagonize RC.

Just tell me you went to some open houses in Northwood Pointe or Turtle _____ this weekend, rkp --- and I'll leave you alone forever. 

 

[rkp]

While it may shock some of you... I totally agree with IHS... part of why builders use Great Rooms is because of smaller lot width and to allow them to make excuses why you don't need separate dining/living rooms.

In the width of a 3CWG lot, you can fit from left to right, a dining room, a kitchen, a nook and a family room... in a 2CWG lot... one of those has to go.

Are you going to tell me that if it cost the same to get a home with a Great Room plus a separate dining area, you would just get the Great Room? And if I remember correctly, there are some larger homes in Turtle Rock that have a kitchen/nook/family combo that matches the size of today's Great Rooms. I don't think renos would cost $300k... you can find a sizeable TR home for about $900k + $100k in renos would probably end up giving you a better home/location than $1mil on a LR home.  I think you can even find some 3CWGs in TR for the low $1m range.

first, i have gone to many 2CWG homes that had both the great room and formal living dining so you are wrong on that.  will find some on redfin and show you

with 5000 sq ft lots pretty standard across woodbury, you have products like rosemoor/mille fleurs and carmel/san marino.  i am not positive but visually, they seem like they are the same width and definitely are same size lots.  the largest rosemoor has a living room, dining room, and small great room.  carmel has 1 giant space with a dining area. 

assuming garage widths are about the same, the carmel house is actually wider than rosemoor but much shorter which makes sense for the carmel lots.  however, san marino lots are just as big as the rosemoor lots so they really are choosing to not give you the formal living and dining as they can easily plant the rosemoor house on the current san marino lots.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

These plans are a joke. who the hell want to see a long and tight hallway when you open that front door and especially the side entrance. The first impression should be an expansive view into a large room with soaring ceiling and visual connection that expand your second story view into a loft and a grand staircase from the entry foyer experience.

The first visual experience in these plan is a toilet, a messy home office and a messy guest room. This is real. No one could keep a clean and tidy office or guests not having their craps everywhere with an open suitcase on the floor. The powder /bath room will be a mess too with their tooth brushes and toiletry over the toilet tank.


Grocery from the garage will forever having to walk across the formal rooms to the kitchen. I hate especially when I have to drag an oily fried turkey across the formal spaces to my fryer in the garage.

 

[rkp]

I couldn't afford the house with everything in Irvine.  So I packed up my toys and went to find it somewhere else. It was either that or make the compromise.  That BK guy taught me I would be happier not compromising, and he was right.  But if I had a $1M budget, I could have found that everything house in Irvine --- and I'd still be there to antagonize RC.

Just tell me you went to some open houses in Northwood Pointe or Turtle _____ this weekend, rkp --- and I'll leave you alone forever. 

i will go this weekend for sure patrick.  was in SF for memorial day weekend.

i wrote this privately to IHS but i took his advice to heart of ripping out an old TR house and putting down our LR field 3 dream floorplan.  i took the wife there and we drove around, went to the park, and tried to imagine living there.  we checked out some houses and unfortunately, the total outlay would be closer to $1.3-1.4 to rip out and put a new house down, and sadly, the house would look horribly out of place there.  it would be awesome if TR folks really started updating and remodeling but it really feels dated unfortunately. 

TR shows nature at its best and its wonderful seeing trees everywhere.  i feel at peace driving around the streets and can imagine how nice it is to come home every day.  i feel that way in parts of cerritos, pasadena, palo alto, diamond bar, etc where there are lots of old mature trees.  unfortunately its hard to find a good mix of newer homes with that kind of area unless people are remodeling or tearing down and putting new homes.  santa monica hills, cheviot hills, etc are dream neighborhoods for me.

on northwood pointe, i totally love it and we made a soft offer on this house but were too low.  in hindsight, i wish we offered more as that neighborhood and house had it all
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/7-Plumbago-92620/home/5769904

 

[rkp]

These plans are a joke. who the hell want to see a long and tight hallway when you open that front door and especially the side entrance. The first impression should be an expansive view into a large room with soaring ceiling and visual connection that expand your second story view into a loft and a grand staircase from the entry foyer experience.

The first visual experience in these plan is a toilet, a messy home office and a messy guest room. This is real. No one could keep a clean and tidy office or guests not having their craps everywhere with an open suitcase on the floor. The powder /bath room will be a mess too with their tooth brushes and toiletry over the toilet tank.

which plan are you referring to with your comments?  in the rosemoor, the powder room isnt visible when you first enter..its a wall.  and that guest room is tiny but i imagine you would keep it closed.  but the bathroom is just for the guest room as their is a powder room.  the rosemoor house would work for us if i could break down the kitchen wall and put in a conservatory but alas, as you told me before, thats not possible

ihs, which house built after 2000 in irvine or south OC meets the stamp of approval for good design, functionality, and longevity?  i am sincerely asking.

you know a ton about the right architecture.  which newer (built after 2000) houses anywhere in irvine or south OC demonstrate a good floorplan

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

LR 2012 is the Turtle Rock of 1976 without the negative impacts. Bowerman Plume-ra  2035 will be the LR of 2012. The future buyers will puke seeing your house 30 years from now. WTF great room and California Room ? BJ room next to the mancave and that is a timeless feature.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

The Rossmoor side entry sucks big time. What do you see when you exit the front door? A wall!

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

Just common sense. There is no magic to learn about plans. I know as much as you and you probably have seen more open houses than me. If you need to see more than 3 open houses to find your dream home If so then you are looking in the wrong places.

First rule: the first impression must be an expansive room or a foyer with a grand staircase. Not a long hall, not a bathroom vestibule, not a toilet, not a hall that view into a toilet, not a guest room, not a closed door guest room , not a home office and not a side of a sofa in the room far beyond, not a kitchen, certain not a messy kitchen island and not an exit door.

 

[rkp]

i remember you/BKshopper wrote similar rules on ihb that were very helpful.  maybe common sense to you but not to me.  i just know what i like and what i dont like.  would love to see more of these rules as a refresher.  i dont recall exactly but stuff like a window shouldn't face the door, etc

my sister-in-laws parents live in this house and i think this is as close to a perfect floorplan.  i bet it meets a lot of the stuff you say IHS
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/35-Plumeria-92620/home/4793029