ICE or EV?
- Thread starter irvinehomeowner
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
just shut up and accept it… remember, they are “scientists”!
The Midwest Roadside Safety Facility(MwRSF) at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. In research sponsored by the U.S. Army Engineer Research and Development Center (ERDC) and partnered with Auburn University's Transportation Research Institute (led by Laurence Rilett, former Mid-America Transportation Center and Nebraska Transportation Center
These subcompact EV's are like Japanese Kei cars (~1,000 kg class) and suitable for some Asian/European cities & rural areas, but less so for California freeways.
For comparison, the Nissan Roox S Hybrid and Honda N Box starts at about $12k USD:
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To make the BYD Seagull or Japanese Kei cars pass US highway safety standards, it would cost $$$ redesign and $$$ upgrades. The Nissan Leaf (1600 kg), even without the tariff, is $28k.
From safety perspective, you don't really want to be in a lightweight subcompact during collision with a full size SUV.
electrek.co
NO…
It is worth noting that in 2019, VW CEO Herbert Diess promised an all-electric future for VW, and it built a new electric vehicle assembly plant in Tennessee, which started production in 2022.
https://www.globalfleet.com/en/manu...lained?t[0]=Tesla&t[1]=Electrification&curl=1
There are places where small subcompacts are suitable.
Many old cities and villages around the world are congested with narrow streets. You won't drive very fast and parking space is a premium.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Everything is made in China.
morekaos
Well-known member
Death traps!!
Electric Vehicle Batteries Make Cars Too Heavy to Be Stopped by Safety Guardrails
A new car safety study has proven that electric vehicles (EVs) are too heavy to be restrained by guardrails that line roads in case of accidents, researchers at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln said.
As the amount of EVs such as Teslas and Chevrolet Bolts take over the roads amid concerns over the environmental impact of gasoline-powered vehicles, one of the lead researchers from the university’s Midwest Roadside Safety Facility (MwRSF) warned that there needs to be “some urgency to address this issue.”
Nebraska experts weigh highway safety and electric vehicles | College of Engineering | University of Nebraska–Lincoln (unl.edu)
Electric Vehicle Batteries Make Cars Too Heavy to Be Stopped by Safety Guardrails
A new car safety study has proven that electric vehicles (EVs) are too heavy to be restrained by guardrails that line roads in case of accidents, researchers at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln said.
As the amount of EVs such as Teslas and Chevrolet Bolts take over the roads amid concerns over the environmental impact of gasoline-powered vehicles, one of the lead researchers from the university’s Midwest Roadside Safety Facility (MwRSF) warned that there needs to be “some urgency to address this issue.”
Nebraska experts weigh highway safety and electric vehicles | College of Engineering | University of Nebraska–Lincoln (unl.edu)
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Uh.. what about ICE SUVs and large trucks... same weight.
Fear mongers gonna monger.
Fear mongers gonna monger.
morekaos
Well-known member
stop questioning the science
just shut up and accept it… remember, they are “scientists”!The Midwest Roadside Safety Facility(MwRSF) at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. In research sponsored by the U.S. Army Engineer Research and Development Center (ERDC) and partnered with Auburn University's Transportation Research Institute (led by Laurence Rilett, former Mid-America Transportation Center and Nebraska Transportation Center
momopi
Well-known member
Forget the $30k EV... how about $10k?
BYD's $10,000 Seagull EV was the top-selling car in China last month
BYD’s cheapest electric car, the Seagull, was the top-selling car in China last month, with nearly 41,000 models sold. Starting...
Even if it had 100% tariffs due to China origin, it would still be under $25k in the US.
Too small for me but pretty good tech for the price.
These subcompact EV's are like Japanese Kei cars (~1,000 kg class) and suitable for some Asian/European cities & rural areas, but less so for California freeways.
For comparison, the Nissan Roox S Hybrid and Honda N Box starts at about $12k USD:
To make the BYD Seagull or Japanese Kei cars pass US highway safety standards, it would cost $$$ redesign and $$$ upgrades. The Nissan Leaf (1600 kg), even without the tariff, is $28k.
From safety perspective, you don't really want to be in a lightweight subcompact during collision with a full size SUV.
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irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Tell that to the Smart cars. 
morekaos
Well-known member
Another reason I will never buy an EV
conservativeplaylist.com
Elon Musk Apparently Bricked Chechen Warlord Ramzan Kadyrov’s Machine-Gun-Mounted Cybertruck
US sanctioned Chechen warlord and Putin ally Ramzan Kadyrov caused an outcry when he released a propaganda video of his new Tesla Cybertruck—that he had outfitted with a machine gun–and claimed it was a gift from Elon Musk. Musk denied he had given the war. lord the truck. Today—Kadyrov said that Tesla had remotely disabled his truck which he had planned to send to the battlefield in Ukraine.
Elon Musk Apparently Bricked Chechen Warlord Ramzan Kadyrov’s Machine-Gun-Mounted Cybertruck
US sanctioned Chechen warlord and Putin ally Ramzan Kadyrov caused an outcry when he released a propaganda video of his
conservativeplaylist.com
morekaos
Well-known member
Volkswagen has ‘all the ingredients’ to succeed as the US shifts to EVs, but will it?
Volkswagen has 'all the ingredients' to succeed as the US shifts to EVs, but will it?
Volkswagen’s CFO Arno Antlitz said Europe’s largest automaker has “all the ingredients” for success as the US auto industry shifts...
electrek.co
NO…
Volkswagen is Halting US Electric Vehicle Production Until at Least 2025
Volkswagen is the latest legacy auto manufacturer to suspend its EV assembly line here in the US. Hundreds of employees are being furloughed, and if Volkswagen ever resumes EV production, it will not be until 2025 at the earliest. VW is blaming this all on door handles, not on the collapse in sales of its electric ID.4 car.It is worth noting that in 2019, VW CEO Herbert Diess promised an all-electric future for VW, and it built a new electric vehicle assembly plant in Tennessee, which started production in 2022.
morekaos
Well-known member
Well, well…wadda ya know…common sense , profit and loss, Econ 101 prevail….putting the government in charge of most anything besides military never works out…hmmm, who has been screaming this for two years now? Let me think…
Ford’s latest pullback from EVs is no surprise to people who’ve been paying attention to the EV market.
More than a year ago I pointed out that news outlets were reporting of EVs “piling up” at dealership lots because of low consumer demand, which ultimately prompted Ford to halve production of its popular F-150 Lightning, reducing output to about 1,600 vehicles per week.
The reality is both lawmakers and Washington and auto companies severely misjudged consumer demand for EVs, which has proven far lower than estimateshad projected.
“EV prices aren’t just going up; they are rising faster than inflation…faster than [internal combustion engine] vehicle prices” Ashley Nunes, a senior research associate at Harvard Law School, testified before Congress in 2023, noting that the inflation-adjusted average price of a new EV had risen to over $66,000 in 2022, compared to $44,000 in 2011
One reason charging infrastructure has lagged is due to the federal government’s incompetence. Nearly three years ago, the U.S. Departments of Transportation and Energy announced a $5 billion spending effort to build fleets of charging stations to lead “an electric vehicle revolution.” As of the summer of 2024, just seven charging stations had been built.
“That is pathetic,” said US Sen. Jeff Merkley, a Democrat from Oregon. “We’re now three years into this … That is a vast administrative failure.”
But the costs of listening to industry experts and politicians in Washington instead of consumers — and profits — have been severe.
“If the great mass of consumers dislike purple cars with green polka dots, then a society based on private property will not waste resources in the production of such odd cars,” wrote economist Robert Murphy. “Any eccentric producer who flouted the wishes of his customers and churned out vehicles to suit his idiosyncratic tastes, would soon go out of business.”
Ford’s massive pullback from EVs is part of a broader return to economic reality. Companies flourish in a free market economy not by serving bureaucrats but consumers, the true “bosses.”
“They, by their buying and by their abstention from buying, decide who should own the capital and run the plants,” Mises wrote. “They determine what should be produced and in what quantity and quality. Their attitudes result either in profit or in loss for the enterpriser.”
Fortunately, the centrally planned EV revolution now appears dead in the water, or at least in full retreat. A spokesman for Kamala Harris recently told Axios the presidential candidate “does not support an electric vehicle mandate.”
Forcing Americans into EVs was always a bad idea economically, but it now appears to be a bad idea politically, too.
That’s good news for Ford and American consumers.
https://www.aier.org/article/fords-massive-retreat-from-evs-explained/
Ford’s latest pullback from EVs is no surprise to people who’ve been paying attention to the EV market.
More than a year ago I pointed out that news outlets were reporting of EVs “piling up” at dealership lots because of low consumer demand, which ultimately prompted Ford to halve production of its popular F-150 Lightning, reducing output to about 1,600 vehicles per week.
The reality is both lawmakers and Washington and auto companies severely misjudged consumer demand for EVs, which has proven far lower than estimateshad projected.
“EV prices aren’t just going up; they are rising faster than inflation…faster than [internal combustion engine] vehicle prices” Ashley Nunes, a senior research associate at Harvard Law School, testified before Congress in 2023, noting that the inflation-adjusted average price of a new EV had risen to over $66,000 in 2022, compared to $44,000 in 2011
One reason charging infrastructure has lagged is due to the federal government’s incompetence. Nearly three years ago, the U.S. Departments of Transportation and Energy announced a $5 billion spending effort to build fleets of charging stations to lead “an electric vehicle revolution.” As of the summer of 2024, just seven charging stations had been built.
“That is pathetic,” said US Sen. Jeff Merkley, a Democrat from Oregon. “We’re now three years into this … That is a vast administrative failure.”
But the costs of listening to industry experts and politicians in Washington instead of consumers — and profits — have been severe.
“If the great mass of consumers dislike purple cars with green polka dots, then a society based on private property will not waste resources in the production of such odd cars,” wrote economist Robert Murphy. “Any eccentric producer who flouted the wishes of his customers and churned out vehicles to suit his idiosyncratic tastes, would soon go out of business.”
Ford’s massive pullback from EVs is part of a broader return to economic reality. Companies flourish in a free market economy not by serving bureaucrats but consumers, the true “bosses.”
“They, by their buying and by their abstention from buying, decide who should own the capital and run the plants,” Mises wrote. “They determine what should be produced and in what quantity and quality. Their attitudes result either in profit or in loss for the enterpriser.”
Fortunately, the centrally planned EV revolution now appears dead in the water, or at least in full retreat. A spokesman for Kamala Harris recently told Axios the presidential candidate “does not support an electric vehicle mandate.”
Forcing Americans into EVs was always a bad idea economically, but it now appears to be a bad idea politically, too.
That’s good news for Ford and American consumers.
https://www.aier.org/article/fords-massive-retreat-from-evs-explained/
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Model Y second best selling car in the US so far for 2024. Could pass Rav4 by end of the year.
someguy
Active member
They're everywhere in OC and arguably a good value, due in large part to heavy subsidies between the EV credits available to consumers and Carbon Credits available to Tesla. If EVs had to compete on level economic field with ICEs, I think we would be seeing a different outcome.
https://www.globalfleet.com/en/manu...lained?t[0]=Tesla&t[1]=Electrification&curl=1
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
What percentage of consumers can actually benefit from the EV credits? Tesla was selling cars when there was no credit and at least 1/2 tp 3/4 of their line doesn't qualify... not to mention consumers who buy Teslas (or EVs) are incomed out anyways.
And globally... EVs do really well (unsure of what credits are available in other countries).
And globally... EVs do really well (unsure of what credits are available in other countries).
morekaos
Well-known member
The entire Chinese market is subsidized by the government, Europe, subsidizes and tax credits more than we do. Watch what happens when Trump pulls all those subsidies next year, that markets gonna collapse, even faster.
morekaos
Well-known member
Dooomed!!!
The EV Graveyard
Last week, the House approved a resolution to block the Biden administration’s emissions rule that would require more than half of the automobiles sold in the new-car market to be electric by 2032. The 215 representatives who voted for the bill, including eight Democrats, are far more in tune with most of the country than the White House. The “deplorables” and “bitter” clingers of the industrialized world are rejecting electric vehicles.
Nationwide, the inventory of unsold EVs had grown by nearly 350% over the first half of 2024, creating “a 92-day supply — roughly three months’ worth of EVs, and nearly twice the industry average,” says Axios, which is 54 days for gasoline-powered vehicles.
The story is much the same in Britain. EVs “are losing value at an ‘unsustainable’ rate as a slowdown in consumer demand sends used car prices tumbling,” the Telegraph reported last week. Meanwhile in France, “the EU’s second largest market for battery electric vehicles behind Germany,” deliveries have fallen by a third.
Germans are likewise losing interest, as the country has “suffered a ‘spectacular’ drop in electric car sales as the European Union faces growing calls to delay its net zero vehicle targets,” the Telegraph said in a separate story.
Many Americans are fed up with elected and unelected officials forcing their preferences on them. It’s a culture of independence at war with a culture of coercion.
https://issuesinsights.com/2024/09/24/the-ev-graveyard/
The EV Graveyard
Last week, the House approved a resolution to block the Biden administration’s emissions rule that would require more than half of the automobiles sold in the new-car market to be electric by 2032. The 215 representatives who voted for the bill, including eight Democrats, are far more in tune with most of the country than the White House. The “deplorables” and “bitter” clingers of the industrialized world are rejecting electric vehicles.
Nationwide, the inventory of unsold EVs had grown by nearly 350% over the first half of 2024, creating “a 92-day supply — roughly three months’ worth of EVs, and nearly twice the industry average,” says Axios, which is 54 days for gasoline-powered vehicles.
The story is much the same in Britain. EVs “are losing value at an ‘unsustainable’ rate as a slowdown in consumer demand sends used car prices tumbling,” the Telegraph reported last week. Meanwhile in France, “the EU’s second largest market for battery electric vehicles behind Germany,” deliveries have fallen by a third.
Germans are likewise losing interest, as the country has “suffered a ‘spectacular’ drop in electric car sales as the European Union faces growing calls to delay its net zero vehicle targets,” the Telegraph said in a separate story.
Many Americans are fed up with elected and unelected officials forcing their preferences on them. It’s a culture of independence at war with a culture of coercion.
https://issuesinsights.com/2024/09/24/the-ev-graveyard/
momopi
Well-known member
Tell that to the Smart cars.
There are places where small subcompacts are suitable.
Many old cities and villages around the world are congested with narrow streets. You won't drive very fast and parking space is a premium.
morekaos
Well-known member
Pretty prescient…your welcome if you made money shorting those pigs!
morekaos
Well-known member
Disaster….
GM EV Sales Battered
GM had its best quarter for US sales since 2005, delivering 659,601 vehicles. However,less than 5% were EVs, with 32,095 EV sales.
GM’s Billions
GM has very little to show for the billions of dollars it has invested in its EV business, and it has retreated rapidly. Management understands that the massive profits from gas-powered cars are vital to success and will last at least a decade. In the meantime, it will push hybrids, which are more popular than EVs.
GM EV Sales Battered (msn.com)
GM EV Sales Battered
GM had its best quarter for US sales since 2005, delivering 659,601 vehicles. However,less than 5% were EVs, with 32,095 EV sales.
GM’s Billions
GM has very little to show for the billions of dollars it has invested in its EV business, and it has retreated rapidly. Management understands that the massive profits from gas-powered cars are vital to success and will last at least a decade. In the meantime, it will push hybrids, which are more popular than EVs.
GM EV Sales Battered (msn.com)
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
What are you reading? Quick Google says GM total sales were down a bit for 3Q but GM EV sales were record highs.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
And China EV still selling like gangbusters:
electrek.co
What happens in China will happen here... just like Covid.
BYD shatters Q3 and September sales records as growth streak continues
China’s leading EV maker hit a milestone, selling over 400,000 vehicles for the first time last month. BYD just had...
electrek.co
What happens in China will happen here... just like Covid.