irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
iacrenter said:
Akula doesn?t believe in data or real experience, just conspiracy social media and their own interpretation of anecdotal evidence.
coronavirus
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Akula doesn?t believe in data or real experience, just conspiracy social media and their own interpretation of anecdotal evidence.
I don't have access to the full data set, so I can't break it down. But I'm guessing you want a subset analysis of younger and healthier people. Generally speaking, if you are younger and healthier you are at lower risk for death and hospitalization. But in the last two years, almost 35K people died from COVID between the ages of 19-44.
I'm sure if you do a detailed risk benefit analysis by age group and co-moridity, you will find less marginal benefit for younger and healthier individuals. But we are still in a pandemic that has killed over 800k. From a public health stand point, vaccinating only the old and unhealthy will not stop it. Yes, not everyone will get equal benefits from a vaccine but as a whole we are better off if everyone gets vaccinated.
Your own personal experience is what? iacrenter is telling you how it is in an actual hospital. I think more people would listen to iacrenter over you and over me.
And iacrenter seems to agree with my assessment.
You talk about politicization... when all your posts are colored with politics even though you claim to be moderate.
You talk about looking at the rest of the world, did you even check out the Our World In Data link I posted here? Still reflects that the unvaccinated are the ones who are suffering more.
Not sure why you think you can fool us and yourself.
The majority of the data and those in the US and many other countries are living in this "fantasy".
Seems like you need to not just move out of Cali but the entire US since you disagree so much with the way of life here.
Good luck in Africa or India.
You do realize you are also proving the efficacy of vaccines here too since you said some of you were vaxxed.
But don't tell Akula... might burst his/her bubble (and believe is also vaxxed based on how they evade eyephone's posts).
Actually , no, it can easily be said it shores up the idea that vaccines don?t matter bc the immunity is consistent for the two who are not vaxed?as I have said a million times, can?t prove a negative. We are very comfortable with our position. The vaxed will never get another one so there we have it.
You want to talk about detrimental shame and its negative consequences?....
I?m a Public School Teacher. The Kids Aren?t Alright.
My students were taught to think of themselves as vectors of disease. This has fundamentally altered their understanding of themselves.
The data about learning loss and the mental health crisis is devastating. Overlooked has been the deep shame young people feel: Our students were taught to think of their schools as hubs for infection and themselves as vectors of disease. This has fundamentally altered their understanding of themselves.
When we finally got back into the classroom in September 2020, I was optimistic, even as we would go remote for weeks, sometimes months, whenever case numbers would rise. But things never returned to normal.
When we were physically in school, it felt like there was no longer life in the building. Maybe it was the masks that made it so no one wanted to engage in lessons, or even talk about how they spent their weekend. But it felt cold and soulless. My students weren?t allowed to gather in the halls or chat between classes. They still aren?t. Sporting events, clubs and graduation were all cancelled. These may sound like small things, but these losses were a huge deal to the students. These are rites of passages that can?t be made up.
Teenage girls are notoriously empathetic. I see that many of my students, but especially the female ones, feel a heavy burden of responsibility. Right before Christmas, one of my brightest 12th graders confided in me that she was terrified of taking her mask off. She told me that she didn?t want to get anyone sick or kill anybody. She was worried she would be held responsible for someone dying.
What am I supposed to say? That 23 children have died from Covid in Canada during the whole of the pandemic and she is much more likely to kill someone driving a car? That kids in Scandinavia, Sweden, and the Netherlands largely haven?t had to wear masks at school and haven?t seen outbreaks because of it? That masks are not a magic shield against the virus, and that even if she were to pass it along to a classmate, the risk of them getting seriously sick is minuscule?
I want to tell her that she can remove her mask, and socialize with her friends without being worried.
But I am expected to enforce the rules.
At the beginning of the pandemic, adults shamed kids for wanting to play at the park or hang out with their friends. We kept hearing, ?They?ll be fine. They?re resilient.? It?s true that humans, by nature, are very resilient. But they also break. And my students are breaking. Some have already broken.
When we look at the Covid-19 pandemic through the lens of history, I believe it will be clear that we betrayed our children. The risks of this pandemic were never to them, but they were forced to carry the burden of it. It?s enough. It?s time for a return to normal life and put an end to the bureaucratic policies that aren't making society safer, but are sacrificing our children's mental, emotional, and physical health.
Our children need life on the highest volume. And they need it now.
https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/im-a-public-school-teacher-the-kids
Akula doesn?t believe in data or real experience, just conspiracy social media and their own interpretation of anecdotal evidence.
iacrenter
Well-known member
akula1488 said:
I don't have access to the full data set, so I can't break it down. But I'm guessing you want a subset analysis of younger and healthier people. Generally speaking, if you are younger and healthier you are at lower risk for death and hospitalization. But in the last two years, almost 35K people died from COVID between the ages of 19-44.
I'm sure if you do a detailed risk benefit analysis by age group and co-moridity, you will find less marginal benefit for younger and healthier individuals. But we are still in a pandemic that has killed over 800k. From a public health stand point, vaccinating only the old and unhealthy will not stop it. Yes, not everyone will get equal benefits from a vaccine but as a whole we are better off if everyone gets vaccinated.
Nothing is more real than my personal experience. What you see on CNN is what they want you to see.
You are also looking at filtered data which is highly politicized in the US. I look around the world where there is no left and right division like we have in the US. Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan, Thailand, India, Mexico, Africa, Northern Europe, Scottland all tell a different story. both developed and underdeveloped countries alike.
You can keep living in your own bubble while the rest of us are back living a normal life. Just don't force your way onto the rest of us. Keep paying taxes and subscribing to Pfizer booster shot every quarter. Maybe I will buy some Pfize stock and make money thanks to you patronage.
You are also looking at filtered data which is highly politicized in the US. I look around the world where there is no left and right division like we have in the US. Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan, Thailand, India, Mexico, Africa, Northern Europe, Scottland all tell a different story. both developed and underdeveloped countries alike.
You can keep living in your own bubble while the rest of us are back living a normal life. Just don't force your way onto the rest of us. Keep paying taxes and subscribing to Pfizer booster shot every quarter. Maybe I will buy some Pfize stock and make money thanks to you patronage.
irvinehomeowner said:
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
akula1488 said:
Your own personal experience is what? iacrenter is telling you how it is in an actual hospital. I think more people would listen to iacrenter over you and over me.
And iacrenter seems to agree with my assessment.
You talk about politicization... when all your posts are colored with politics even though you claim to be moderate.
You talk about looking at the rest of the world, did you even check out the Our World In Data link I posted here? Still reflects that the unvaccinated are the ones who are suffering more.
Not sure why you think you can fool us and yourself.
morekaos
Well-known member
Follow the science?
WHO says there?s no evidence healthy children and adolescents need Covid boosters
WHO Chief Scientist Dr. Soumya Swaminathan said Tuesday ?there?s no evidence right now? that suggests healthy children and adolescents need booster shots to supplement their Covid-19 vaccinations.
Swaminathan said the agency?s advisory group meet later this week to consider how countries should think about giving
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/18/who...hildren-adolescents-need-covid-boosters.html?
WHO says there?s no evidence healthy children and adolescents need Covid boosters
WHO Chief Scientist Dr. Soumya Swaminathan said Tuesday ?there?s no evidence right now? that suggests healthy children and adolescents need booster shots to supplement their Covid-19 vaccinations.
Swaminathan said the agency?s advisory group meet later this week to consider how countries should think about giving
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/18/who...hildren-adolescents-need-covid-boosters.html?
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
@morekaos:
So you keep bragging about natural immunity... have any of you caught Covid a 2nd time?
I ask because you know that relative of mine who is like you? This last bout of Covid is actually their 2nd time after having natural "immunity" from catching it before Thanksgiving 2020 (which they didn't tell us until later). So when I asked them this time how did they get it again because they also brag about how they don't need to vax because they have immunity, now they are telling me it probably wasn't Covid the first time. Nice narrative switcharoo.
So you keep bragging about natural immunity... have any of you caught Covid a 2nd time?
I ask because you know that relative of mine who is like you? This last bout of Covid is actually their 2nd time after having natural "immunity" from catching it before Thanksgiving 2020 (which they didn't tell us until later). So when I asked them this time how did they get it again because they also brag about how they don't need to vax because they have immunity, now they are telling me it probably wasn't Covid the first time. Nice narrative switcharoo.
morekaos
Well-known member
No, both my kids have had significant exposure. (Ones dorm room mate had it) and nada. My wife has been back in the classroom where there have been numerous infections and she tests negative twice a week. We all tested positive several times in August then subsequently negative with the CDC?s approval.
You can still live in your make a believe fantasy. Classic Stockholm syndrome. Scotland shows this weird data that the more vaccinated the more likely you get hospitalized? Probably it has something to do with age as older population has higher vaccination rate. So at minimum, this is a weak vaccine that the narrative is starting to crumble.
irvinehomeowner said:
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
akula1488 said:
The majority of the data and those in the US and many other countries are living in this "fantasy".
Seems like you need to not just move out of Cali but the entire US since you disagree so much with the way of life here.
Good luck in Africa or India.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
morekaos said:
You do realize you are also proving the efficacy of vaccines here too since you said some of you were vaxxed.
But don't tell Akula... might burst his/her bubble (and believe is also vaxxed based on how they evade eyephone's posts).
morekaos
Well-known member
irvinehomeowner said:
Actually , no, it can easily be said it shores up the idea that vaccines don?t matter bc the immunity is consistent for the two who are not vaxed?as I have said a million times, can?t prove a negative. We are very comfortable with our position. The vaxed will never get another one so there we have it.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
But immunity is consistent for the one who is vaxed too. You are word dancing again.
Is "can't prove a negative" the new "that's a strawman argument"?
Is "can't prove a negative" the new "that's a strawman argument"?
morekaos
Well-known member
No it?s not. There are no studies that definitively prove that being vaxed or being unvaxed reduces or increases symptoms when infected. Our two vaxed had it worse than the two unvaxed but it is impossible to prove the vaccinated were better off for being vaccinated?can?t prove a negative. I?ve had worse hangovers?we are finished?moving on.
cnbc: Kids' Covid hospitalizations hit pandemic high, worrying doctors and parents about long-term impact
The number of children hospitalized with Covid hit a pandemic high during the omicron variant's surge.
The CDC has said there's no indication that omicron causes more severe illness in children.
Pediatric infectious disease specialists are concerned about the long-term consequences of Covid in children.
The biggest risk
Pediatric infectious disease specialists said most of the children hospitalized with Covid are unvaccinated. Shane said children with underlying conditions who are vaccinated but got breakthrough infections are having much less severe symptoms than those who are unvaccinated and they are not being hospitalized with Covid-related complications.
"The biggest risk factor at this point is being unvaccinated," said Dr. Sean O'Leary, a pediatric infectious disease specialist at Children's Hospital Colorado.
Obesity
The CDC found that two-thirds of children hospitalized with Covid had one or more underlying health issues, with obesity the most common condition, according to a study of pediatric patients at six hospitals during July and August when the delta variant was predominant.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/01/21...demic-high-worrying-doctors-and-parents-.html
The number of children hospitalized with Covid hit a pandemic high during the omicron variant's surge.
The CDC has said there's no indication that omicron causes more severe illness in children.
Pediatric infectious disease specialists are concerned about the long-term consequences of Covid in children.
The biggest risk
Pediatric infectious disease specialists said most of the children hospitalized with Covid are unvaccinated. Shane said children with underlying conditions who are vaccinated but got breakthrough infections are having much less severe symptoms than those who are unvaccinated and they are not being hospitalized with Covid-related complications.
"The biggest risk factor at this point is being unvaccinated," said Dr. Sean O'Leary, a pediatric infectious disease specialist at Children's Hospital Colorado.
Obesity
The CDC found that two-thirds of children hospitalized with Covid had one or more underlying health issues, with obesity the most common condition, according to a study of pediatric patients at six hospitals during July and August when the delta variant was predominant.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/01/21...demic-high-worrying-doctors-and-parents-.html
People article: Aaron Rodgers Blasted Biden Administration in Vaccine Rant Ahead of Packers' Playoffs Loss
Weeks before Saturday's big loss, President Biden referenced the Green Bay Packers quarterback's vaccination status while touring tornado damage in Kentucky in December
https://people.com/sports/aaron-rodgers-blasts-joe-biden-administration-vaccine-rant-playoffs-loss/
Maybe Rodgers should of focused more on preparing to play football than other things. Its kind of sad the #1 seed gb loses to sf in the snow which put the GB packers with a great advantage. (since they are used to the snow element)
Weeks before Saturday's big loss, President Biden referenced the Green Bay Packers quarterback's vaccination status while touring tornado damage in Kentucky in December
https://people.com/sports/aaron-rodgers-blasts-joe-biden-administration-vaccine-rant-playoffs-loss/
Maybe Rodgers should of focused more on preparing to play football than other things. Its kind of sad the #1 seed gb loses to sf in the snow which put the GB packers with a great advantage. (since they are used to the snow element)
morekaos
Well-known member
eyephone said:
You want to talk about detrimental shame and its negative consequences?....
I?m a Public School Teacher. The Kids Aren?t Alright.
My students were taught to think of themselves as vectors of disease. This has fundamentally altered their understanding of themselves.
The data about learning loss and the mental health crisis is devastating. Overlooked has been the deep shame young people feel: Our students were taught to think of their schools as hubs for infection and themselves as vectors of disease. This has fundamentally altered their understanding of themselves.
When we finally got back into the classroom in September 2020, I was optimistic, even as we would go remote for weeks, sometimes months, whenever case numbers would rise. But things never returned to normal.
When we were physically in school, it felt like there was no longer life in the building. Maybe it was the masks that made it so no one wanted to engage in lessons, or even talk about how they spent their weekend. But it felt cold and soulless. My students weren?t allowed to gather in the halls or chat between classes. They still aren?t. Sporting events, clubs and graduation were all cancelled. These may sound like small things, but these losses were a huge deal to the students. These are rites of passages that can?t be made up.
Teenage girls are notoriously empathetic. I see that many of my students, but especially the female ones, feel a heavy burden of responsibility. Right before Christmas, one of my brightest 12th graders confided in me that she was terrified of taking her mask off. She told me that she didn?t want to get anyone sick or kill anybody. She was worried she would be held responsible for someone dying.
What am I supposed to say? That 23 children have died from Covid in Canada during the whole of the pandemic and she is much more likely to kill someone driving a car? That kids in Scandinavia, Sweden, and the Netherlands largely haven?t had to wear masks at school and haven?t seen outbreaks because of it? That masks are not a magic shield against the virus, and that even if she were to pass it along to a classmate, the risk of them getting seriously sick is minuscule?
I want to tell her that she can remove her mask, and socialize with her friends without being worried.
But I am expected to enforce the rules.
At the beginning of the pandemic, adults shamed kids for wanting to play at the park or hang out with their friends. We kept hearing, ?They?ll be fine. They?re resilient.? It?s true that humans, by nature, are very resilient. But they also break. And my students are breaking. Some have already broken.
When we look at the Covid-19 pandemic through the lens of history, I believe it will be clear that we betrayed our children. The risks of this pandemic were never to them, but they were forced to carry the burden of it. It?s enough. It?s time for a return to normal life and put an end to the bureaucratic policies that aren't making society safer, but are sacrificing our children's mental, emotional, and physical health.
Our children need life on the highest volume. And they need it now.
https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/im-a-public-school-teacher-the-kids
morekaos
Well-known member
Buh-bye?.
NY Supreme Court Judge Halts NY Governor?s State-Wide Mask Mandate
A NY State Supreme Court judge ruled New York?s mask mandate ?unconstitutional,? and declared it ?null, void and unenforceable.?
https://creativedestructionmedia.co...e-halts-ny-governors-state-wide-mask-mandate/
NY Supreme Court Judge Halts NY Governor?s State-Wide Mask Mandate
A NY State Supreme Court judge ruled New York?s mask mandate ?unconstitutional,? and declared it ?null, void and unenforceable.?
https://creativedestructionmedia.co...e-halts-ny-governors-state-wide-mask-mandate/