coronavirus
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A supporter does not blindly support all positions without question...no politician garners that. Intelligent supporters independently come to that the reasons why they support any particular politician. Your definition is that of a cult leader...not the same. I still support him aggressively.
didn't you say you have a comp sci major or whatever, think logically from the "leftist" pov:
do they believe vaccination will reduce hospitalization? to them, yes,
do they believe it'll prevent spread of virus? to them, yes
so if the staff are unvaccinated, so that means they are not helping in preventing the spread, and actually doing quite the opposite
so it's not contradictory or illogical, to them
Yes, it is the more traditional kind of vaccine...
he ultimate difference is the way the instructions are delivered. The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines use mRNA technology, and the Johnson & Johnson vaccine uses the more traditional virus-based technology.
mRNA is essentially a little piece of code that the vaccine delivers to your cells. The code serves as an instruction manual for your immune system, teaching it to recognize the virus that causes COVID-19 and attack it, should it encounter the real thing.
Instead of using mRNA, the Johnson & Johnson vaccine uses a disabled adenovirus to deliver the instructions. This adenovirus is in no way related to the coronavirus. It is a completely different virus. Although it can deliver the instructions on how to defeat the coronavirus, it can?t replicate in your body and will not give you a viral infection.
https://www.vcuhealth.org/news/covid-19/johnson-and-johnson-vaccine-how-is-it-different
The volume is not the same though. The death volume for the unvaxxed is significantly higher than it needs to be. Likewise, the long term quality of life impacts for the same group are much larger.
Not really my issue though, I?m pragmatic and selfish, I just don?t want to be paying for a 2.5 months ICU stay for an unvaxxed person. It?s a stupid waste of money and resources.
More importantly it?s a giant drag on the economy and return to ?normal?.
I think you need to read better.
J&J is an adenovirus type vaccine... that is the more like the traditional ones.
And you are in conflict with yourself... now you are saying that the non-nMRNA is better because other countries use it but I believe there have been more reported side effects (which you were also concerned about) with the J&J one which is why it's not as highly recommended.
Which one is it?
Maybe after we hit 900,000 dead.
That should be next week.
morekaos
Well-known member
eyephone said:
A supporter does not blindly support all positions without question...no politician garners that. Intelligent supporters independently come to that the reasons why they support any particular politician. Your definition is that of a cult leader...not the same. I still support him aggressively.
akula1488 said:
didn't you say you have a comp sci major or whatever, think logically from the "leftist" pov:
do they believe vaccination will reduce hospitalization? to them, yes,
do they believe it'll prevent spread of virus? to them, yes
so if the staff are unvaccinated, so that means they are not helping in preventing the spread, and actually doing quite the opposite
so it's not contradictory or illogical, to them
Another food for thought.
There are other non mRNA vaccines being used and authorized in the rest of the world, why the US is laser focused on Pfizer and Moderna?
A lot of anti Vaxxers are using mRNA as a reason. Why not give EUA to those non mRNA vaccines?
Is it more about public health, or really about the mandate and profiting certain companies?
There are other non mRNA vaccines being used and authorized in the rest of the world, why the US is laser focused on Pfizer and Moderna?
A lot of anti Vaxxers are using mRNA as a reason. Why not give EUA to those non mRNA vaccines?
Is it more about public health, or really about the mandate and profiting certain companies?
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Isn't J&J non-mRNA?
morekaos
Well-known member
irvinehomeowner said:
Yes, it is the more traditional kind of vaccine...
he ultimate difference is the way the instructions are delivered. The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines use mRNA technology, and the Johnson & Johnson vaccine uses the more traditional virus-based technology.
mRNA is essentially a little piece of code that the vaccine delivers to your cells. The code serves as an instruction manual for your immune system, teaching it to recognize the virus that causes COVID-19 and attack it, should it encounter the real thing.
Instead of using mRNA, the Johnson & Johnson vaccine uses a disabled adenovirus to deliver the instructions. This adenovirus is in no way related to the coronavirus. It is a completely different virus. Although it can deliver the instructions on how to defeat the coronavirus, it can?t replicate in your body and will not give you a viral infection.
https://www.vcuhealth.org/news/covid-19/johnson-and-johnson-vaccine-how-is-it-different
It is in the same category as mRNA, still not as traditional.
Article from Nature.https://www.nature.com/articles/s41541-021-00369-6
Basically some people are concerned about this new way of instructing your body to produce spike proteins to stimulate immunization response, vs traditional approach of using attenuated virus. i.e. how the spike proteins are presented: produced by your body or injected in, protein based
Article from Nature.https://www.nature.com/articles/s41541-021-00369-6
Basically some people are concerned about this new way of instructing your body to produce spike proteins to stimulate immunization response, vs traditional approach of using attenuated virus. i.e. how the spike proteins are presented: produced by your body or injected in, protein based
irvinehomeowner said:
nosuchreality
Well-known member
morekaos said:
The volume is not the same though. The death volume for the unvaxxed is significantly higher than it needs to be. Likewise, the long term quality of life impacts for the same group are much larger.
Not really my issue though, I?m pragmatic and selfish, I just don?t want to be paying for a 2.5 months ICU stay for an unvaxxed person. It?s a stupid waste of money and resources.
More importantly it?s a giant drag on the economy and return to ?normal?.
morekaos
Well-known member
Buh-bye?
Biden administration to withdraw Covid-19 vaccination and testing regulation aimed at large businesses
(CNN)The Biden administration is withdrawing its Covid-19 vaccination and testing regulation aimed at large businesses, following the Supreme Court's decision to block the rule earlier this month
https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/25/politics/vaccine-mandate-osha-withdrawn/index.html
Biden administration to withdraw Covid-19 vaccination and testing regulation aimed at large businesses
(CNN)The Biden administration is withdrawing its Covid-19 vaccination and testing regulation aimed at large businesses, following the Supreme Court's decision to block the rule earlier this month
https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/25/politics/vaccine-mandate-osha-withdrawn/index.html
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
akula1488 said:
I think you need to read better.
J&J is an adenovirus type vaccine... that is the more like the traditional ones.
And you are in conflict with yourself... now you are saying that the non-nMRNA is better because other countries use it but I believe there have been more reported side effects (which you were also concerned about) with the J&J one which is why it's not as highly recommended.
Which one is it?
morekaos
Well-known member
And now comes the mea culpas from the talking heads class that they NEVER knew what they were talking about and that all the predictions, models and edicts proved mostly wrong and they have no idea what to expect now...sorry about that.
A humble prediction for what comes after Omicron
This seems logical enough -- we do need to have an idea of what to expect tomorrow and next week and beyond so that we can recalibrate our worry index, visit family we haven't seen and even plan a trip. But given the collective track record of predictions by the same well-meaning individuals (myself among them), all of these fortune-tellers should agree to provide the following disclaimer with each prediction: "Though trying my best, I really am clueless regarding what's ahead."
Surely this great humbling is the lesson of the Omicron variant. It broke every "rule" of pandemic behavior we thought we had established. With unprecedented swiftness, it went from a variant of concern on November 26, 2021 to millions and millions of cases in less than two months and now it's receding quickly in many countries (and in parts of the US) -- though still a growing threat in others. Also unexpected were the differences in the symptoms caused by Omicron (milder than other variants, though not mild) and the fact that Omicron partially evaded vaccine-induced immunity (though booster doses do help to bump up immunity against Omicron).
But after accepting that we are trapped in a phenomenon we still can't reliably predict, what else is there to do but to try and forecast the post-Omicron world?
As the H1N1 influenza pandemic of 2009 demonstrated, once in a while, a viral strain can appear that that lies completely outside our immune repertoire. The result was the H1N1 pandemic that infected about 60 million people in the US, according to estimates from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and -- importantly -- faded into the rearview mirror.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/26/opinions/the-future-of-covid-19-omicron-sepkowitz/index.html
A humble prediction for what comes after Omicron
This seems logical enough -- we do need to have an idea of what to expect tomorrow and next week and beyond so that we can recalibrate our worry index, visit family we haven't seen and even plan a trip. But given the collective track record of predictions by the same well-meaning individuals (myself among them), all of these fortune-tellers should agree to provide the following disclaimer with each prediction: "Though trying my best, I really am clueless regarding what's ahead."
Surely this great humbling is the lesson of the Omicron variant. It broke every "rule" of pandemic behavior we thought we had established. With unprecedented swiftness, it went from a variant of concern on November 26, 2021 to millions and millions of cases in less than two months and now it's receding quickly in many countries (and in parts of the US) -- though still a growing threat in others. Also unexpected were the differences in the symptoms caused by Omicron (milder than other variants, though not mild) and the fact that Omicron partially evaded vaccine-induced immunity (though booster doses do help to bump up immunity against Omicron).
But after accepting that we are trapped in a phenomenon we still can't reliably predict, what else is there to do but to try and forecast the post-Omicron world?
As the H1N1 influenza pandemic of 2009 demonstrated, once in a while, a viral strain can appear that that lies completely outside our immune repertoire. The result was the H1N1 pandemic that infected about 60 million people in the US, according to estimates from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and -- importantly -- faded into the rearview mirror.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/26/opinions/the-future-of-covid-19-omicron-sepkowitz/index.html
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Is akula John Stockton?
nosuchreality
Well-known member
akula1488 said:
Maybe after we hit 900,000 dead.
That should be next week.