irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
OC has over 50% vaccination... compare the death rate to before and extrapolate.
coronavirus
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Compare at where? You gave me this link last time.https://occovid19.ochealthinfo.com/coronavirus-in-oc
This is all over the place and I don't know how to specifically check death rates by dates. Are you talking about this website or Johns Hopkins one? If you're so smart and fast, just tell us if more vaxed places are having less death compare to last year. If not, then tell us that too.
There is a dashboard link on that page where you can click on deaths and it shows you a graph over time (it has a coded stamp on the end so not sure if it will work directly or only from that page):
https://ochca.maps.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/cc4859c8c522496b9f21c451de2fedae
Thanks for sending that. However that still does not provide information of where there are more vaxed people, there are less deaths. I'm genuinely curious if those areas are performing better than those areas with so called I-don't-care attitudes. If you can't find that info, tell us so we can just move on. If you're seeing what I'm not seeing, let us know.
The first link is a video which is easier to understand, but it's stating in a pretty vague manner. It's not specifying on which states. It doesn't seem that accurate.
The second link has better sorting options and charts. But I'm not as fast as you so I can't really follow how to specify where more vaxed areas are less deadly yet. I'll spend some more time on it, but meanwhile maybe you can teach us with screen grabs or something? Thank you providing these though.
It's not just OC though. Other counties or states are having a similar curve of death rates. It went up and came down. Now it seems to be going up again. You say it came down because of the vaccines and restrictions. Some like morekaos might say it's because we're more immune to this thing. Whatever the case might be, the truth is that we can't pin point and prove more vaxes areas are less deadly. We can't prove less vaxes areas are more deadly either. Everywhere is having the same curves.
What then is the point here? The point is "how do we know if the vaccines are really working?" I don't think you lose anything by getting vaccinated, but I'm not 100% sure if it's really "working" if you know what I mean. So people like morekaos is saying what he's saying. He never said don't get vaccinated, don't wear masks, don't social distance, or anything like that. He never told anyone to do anything. He's just sharing what he's been doing himself. Do I think he's right? I never said that and you'll never know. ;D
Then why did the governor of Florida and Texas get vaccinated. But they do not advertise it. Even though there is a big problem with covid in their state.
Also, the biggest problem that I am the only talking about on talk irvine. Is the health system collapsing because of the unvaccinated filling the icu rooms.
I worded it poorly. Far left: everyone should be vaccinated and anti vaxxers are the rags of society.
Far right: vaccinate is a hoax and it does not work.
The middle should be vaccine helps majority of people, but give people choice whether to take them or not for various reasons.
But the media and govt wants to push the far left agenda.
I'm only interested in facts. My conversations are about getting to the facts. That's why I tried to sort out many people's misunderstandings from BTB/YF and morekaos and so on. Too many confusions and misunderstandings here and there so I like to sort out what each person really means then the decision is up to you to believe whatever you want to believe.
In case of God, believing in Him is really in God's hands, it's not mine to convert you to believe what I believe. I can only present the truth, the gospel. If I knew you personally I might be able to share more other things like inviting you to our home, treating you lunch, dinner or whatever in person, but as far as forums like this go, presenting the truth is all it can be done. But it could work pretty effectively also. It takes time, hard evidences from the Bible, and also faith that God gives for someone to be a real Christian. Of course, there are always others ways people get converted, but I'm just talking in general.
It's the same thing for this covid and vaccines. I keep asking for hard evidences to prove what you're saying is the fact. But so far, I haven't seen it. I'm asking because you seem like you know more than me. You seem pretty confident at that you believe on this. I don't buy sayings like "the experts say it, so believe it." I need to see the "datas" and evidences to back that up. So far, I haven't found one that goes along with more vaxed areas are performing "better." And you haven't been able to provide that either. For me, what morekoas is saying and what you or eyephone or most majority here are saying are all the same. They're just different opinions. No hard evidences.
Oh, so we're now talking about vaccinated vs. unvaccinated? I thought we were trying to find the region or the areas. Even with the argument of vaxed vs. unvaxed, are you sure those deaths from unvaxed are from covid death? If so, please show us that. I really didn't search for that since we were talking about areas just until yesterday.
There is hard evidence. Sheeeesh
This guy always disputes the vaccine, but he got the vaccine. Also, he wears a mask in church.
I mean why do all that if the vaccine or mask doesnt work?
Where is the hard evidence? Screengrab it. Post it. Show it. I'll really believe you if you find it. I would do the same with posting bible verses, explaining hard evidences along, if you were to ask me how is Jesus the Son of God.
For your comments on making fun of me, you still seem not getthing what I'm really saying so I won't even bother defending.
irvinehomeowner said:
Compare at where? You gave me this link last time.https://occovid19.ochealthinfo.com/coronavirus-in-oc
This is all over the place and I don't know how to specifically check death rates by dates. Are you talking about this website or Johns Hopkins one? If you're so smart and fast, just tell us if more vaxed places are having less death compare to last year. If not, then tell us that too.
momopi
Well-known member
IMO it's still way too early to claim natural immunity > vaccination for COVID-19. Right now the vaccine market is like Studebaker era US auto market with numerous car makers, including Packard, Hudson, Nash, Checker (taxis), Bantam/Austin, Crosley, Willys-Overland, Tucker, Muntz (Glendale), Kaiser, etc. There are over 2 dozen COVID-19 vaccines authorized for use and most are still under emergency/conditional use, with many more in the pipeline. As time goes on many more COVID-19 vaccines will enter and exit the market.
At this time we do not know if the virus is here to stay like the cold/flu with large numbers of annual infections, or be reduced to irreverence like the bubonic plague -- the plague never went away but there are only about 650 reported cases annually, include one in California last year. The squirrels and rabbits running around carries them.
At this time we do not know if the virus is here to stay like the cold/flu with large numbers of annual infections, or be reduced to irreverence like the bubonic plague -- the plague never went away but there are only about 650 reported cases annually, include one in California last year. The squirrels and rabbits running around carries them.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Mety said:
There is a dashboard link on that page where you can click on deaths and it shows you a graph over time (it has a coded stamp on the end so not sure if it will work directly or only from that page):
https://ochca.maps.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/cc4859c8c522496b9f21c451de2fedae
irvinehomeowner said:
Thanks for sending that. However that still does not provide information of where there are more vaxed people, there are less deaths. I'm genuinely curious if those areas are performing better than those areas with so called I-don't-care attitudes. If you can't find that info, tell us so we can just move on. If you're seeing what I'm not seeing, let us know.
nosuchreality
Well-known member
Like this?https://www.11alive.com/video/news/...a18eb-a5e1-4571-a1e4-09bad57ed101?jwsource=cl
Or the standard charts showing worse States at Wapo? Where if you look at the bottom of the best vaccinated and then sort the next chart for worse ICU per capita or Hospitalization per capita and the same States appear. You can also sort the new deaths per population and guess which States show up on top again?https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/national/coronavirus-us-cases-deaths/
Or the standard charts showing worse States at Wapo? Where if you look at the bottom of the best vaccinated and then sort the next chart for worse ICU per capita or Hospitalization per capita and the same States appear. You can also sort the new deaths per population and guess which States show up on top again?https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/national/coronavirus-us-cases-deaths/
nosuchreality said:
The first link is a video which is easier to understand, but it's stating in a pretty vague manner. It's not specifying on which states. It doesn't seem that accurate.
The second link has better sorting options and charts. But I'm not as fast as you so I can't really follow how to specify where more vaxed areas are less deadly yet. I'll spend some more time on it, but meanwhile maybe you can teach us with screen grabs or something? Thank you providing these though.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
If you are able to easily find this data yourself, you will be more apt to trust in it.
No one claimed that more highly vaxed areas are less deadly because there could be a significant number of unvaxed people that can skew the numbers. What has been said is that deaths in vaxed people vs unvaxed people is lower
That's why I pointed to the OC data, OC's vax rate is above 50% and if you look at the charts, the current death rate is lower than the 2 previous surges. You will find this repeating in almost any city/county dashboard. Isn't that what you originally asked for? If the death rate is lower than previous?
This chart shows an obvious downward trend in death rate vs vaccinations, you can even select countries (which is probably what you are looking for):
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-vaccinations-vs-covid-death-rate
No one claimed that more highly vaxed areas are less deadly because there could be a significant number of unvaxed people that can skew the numbers. What has been said is that deaths in vaxed people vs unvaxed people is lower
That's why I pointed to the OC data, OC's vax rate is above 50% and if you look at the charts, the current death rate is lower than the 2 previous surges. You will find this repeating in almost any city/county dashboard. Isn't that what you originally asked for? If the death rate is lower than previous?
This chart shows an obvious downward trend in death rate vs vaccinations, you can even select countries (which is probably what you are looking for):
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-vaccinations-vs-covid-death-rate
irvinehomeowner said:
It's not just OC though. Other counties or states are having a similar curve of death rates. It went up and came down. Now it seems to be going up again. You say it came down because of the vaccines and restrictions. Some like morekaos might say it's because we're more immune to this thing. Whatever the case might be, the truth is that we can't pin point and prove more vaxes areas are less deadly. We can't prove less vaxes areas are more deadly either. Everywhere is having the same curves.
What then is the point here? The point is "how do we know if the vaccines are really working?" I don't think you lose anything by getting vaccinated, but I'm not 100% sure if it's really "working" if you know what I mean. So people like morekaos is saying what he's saying. He never said don't get vaccinated, don't wear masks, don't social distance, or anything like that. He never told anyone to do anything. He's just sharing what he's been doing himself. Do I think he's right? I never said that and you'll never know. ;D
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
@Mety:
And that?s why I tell you to find your own data. Even if I post it you will only believe what you want.
If the data doesn?t convince you about the efficacy of the vaccines as have many reports from doctors, hospitals, officials etc have confirmed, then you?re just making me work for nothing.
And that?s what morekaos wants you to believe. When you talk about faith in God, don?t you want to influence people to have the same faith?
And morekaos is posting misleading opinions as fact, so I will correct and debunk as I see it. He?s never admitted any fault? like the fart and mask thing.
And that?s why I tell you to find your own data. Even if I post it you will only believe what you want.
If the data doesn?t convince you about the efficacy of the vaccines as have many reports from doctors, hospitals, officials etc have confirmed, then you?re just making me work for nothing.
And that?s what morekaos wants you to believe. When you talk about faith in God, don?t you want to influence people to have the same faith?
And morekaos is posting misleading opinions as fact, so I will correct and debunk as I see it. He?s never admitted any fault? like the fart and mask thing.
akula1488 said:
Then why did the governor of Florida and Texas get vaccinated. But they do not advertise it. Even though there is a big problem with covid in their state.
Also, the biggest problem that I am the only talking about on talk irvine. Is the health system collapsing because of the unvaccinated filling the icu rooms.
eyephone said:
I worded it poorly. Far left: everyone should be vaccinated and anti vaxxers are the rags of society.
Far right: vaccinate is a hoax and it does not work.
The middle should be vaccine helps majority of people, but give people choice whether to take them or not for various reasons.
But the media and govt wants to push the far left agenda.
irvinehomeowner said:@Mety:
And that?s why I tell you to find your own data. Even if I post it you will only believe what you want.
If the data doesn?t convince you about the efficacy of the vaccines as have many reports from doctors, hospitals, officials etc have confirmed, then you?re just making me work for nothing.
And that?s what morekaos wants you to believe. When you talk about faith in God, don?t you want to influence people to have the same faith?
And morekaos is posting misleading opinions as fact, so I will correct and debunk as I see it. He?s never admitted any fault? like the fart and mask thing.
I'm only interested in facts. My conversations are about getting to the facts. That's why I tried to sort out many people's misunderstandings from BTB/YF and morekaos and so on. Too many confusions and misunderstandings here and there so I like to sort out what each person really means then the decision is up to you to believe whatever you want to believe.
In case of God, believing in Him is really in God's hands, it's not mine to convert you to believe what I believe. I can only present the truth, the gospel. If I knew you personally I might be able to share more other things like inviting you to our home, treating you lunch, dinner or whatever in person, but as far as forums like this go, presenting the truth is all it can be done. But it could work pretty effectively also. It takes time, hard evidences from the Bible, and also faith that God gives for someone to be a real Christian. Of course, there are always others ways people get converted, but I'm just talking in general.
It's the same thing for this covid and vaccines. I keep asking for hard evidences to prove what you're saying is the fact. But so far, I haven't seen it. I'm asking because you seem like you know more than me. You seem pretty confident at that you believe on this. I don't buy sayings like "the experts say it, so believe it." I need to see the "datas" and evidences to back that up. So far, I haven't found one that goes along with more vaxed areas are performing "better." And you haven't been able to provide that either. For me, what morekoas is saying and what you or eyephone or most majority here are saying are all the same. They're just different opinions. No hard evidences.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
The proof is there.
The difference in death numbers of vaccinated vs unvaccinated is stark. I don?t know why you can?t see it.
The difference in death numbers of vaccinated vs unvaccinated is stark. I don?t know why you can?t see it.
irvinehomeowner said:
Oh, so we're now talking about vaccinated vs. unvaccinated? I thought we were trying to find the region or the areas. Even with the argument of vaxed vs. unvaxed, are you sure those deaths from unvaxed are from covid death? If so, please show us that. I really didn't search for that since we were talking about areas just until yesterday.
Mety said:irvinehomeowner said:@Mety:
And that?s why I tell you to find your own data. Even if I post it you will only believe what you want.
If the data doesn?t convince you about the efficacy of the vaccines as have many reports from doctors, hospitals, officials etc have confirmed, then you?re just making me work for nothing.
And that?s what morekaos wants you to believe. When you talk about faith in God, don?t you want to influence people to have the same faith?
And morekaos is posting misleading opinions as fact, so I will correct and debunk as I see it. He?s never admitted any fault? like the fart and mask thing.
I'm only interested in facts. My conversations are about getting to the facts. That's why I tried to sort out many people's misunderstandings from BTB/YF and morekaos and so on. Too many confusions and misunderstandings here and there so I like to sort out what each person really means then the decision is up to you to believe whatever you want to believe.
In case of God, believing in Him is really in God's hands, it's not mine to convert you to believe what I believe. I can only present the truth, the gospel. If I knew you personally I might be able to share more other things like inviting you to our home, treating you lunch, dinner or whatever in person, but as far as forums like this go, presenting the truth is all it can be done. But it could work pretty effectively also. It takes time, hard evidences from the Bible, and also faith that God gives for someone to be a real Christian. Of course, there are always others ways people get converted, but I'm just talking in general.
It's the same thing for this covid and vaccines. I keep asking for hard evidences to prove what you're saying is the fact. But so far, I haven't seen it. I'm asking because you seem like you know more than me. You seem pretty confident at that you believe on this. I don't buy sayings like "the experts say it, so believe it." I need to see the "datas" and evidences to back that up. So far, I haven't found one that goes along with more vaxed areas are performing "better." And you haven't been able to provide that either. For me, what morekoas is saying and what you or eyephone or most majority here are saying are all the same. They're just different opinions. No hard evidences.
There is hard evidence. Sheeeesh
This guy always disputes the vaccine, but he got the vaccine. Also, he wears a mask in church.
I mean why do all that if the vaccine or mask doesnt work?
eyephone said:Mety said:irvinehomeowner said:@Mety:
And that?s why I tell you to find your own data. Even if I post it you will only believe what you want.
If the data doesn?t convince you about the efficacy of the vaccines as have many reports from doctors, hospitals, officials etc have confirmed, then you?re just making me work for nothing.
And that?s what morekaos wants you to believe. When you talk about faith in God, don?t you want to influence people to have the same faith?
And morekaos is posting misleading opinions as fact, so I will correct and debunk as I see it. He?s never admitted any fault? like the fart and mask thing.
I'm only interested in facts. My conversations are about getting to the facts. That's why I tried to sort out many people's misunderstandings from BTB/YF and morekaos and so on. Too many confusions and misunderstandings here and there so I like to sort out what each person really means then the decision is up to you to believe whatever you want to believe.
In case of God, believing in Him is really in God's hands, it's not mine to convert you to believe what I believe. I can only present the truth, the gospel. If I knew you personally I might be able to share more other things like inviting you to our home, treating you lunch, dinner or whatever in person, but as far as forums like this go, presenting the truth is all it can be done. But it could work pretty effectively also. It takes time, hard evidences from the Bible, and also faith that God gives for someone to be a real Christian. Of course, there are always others ways people get converted, but I'm just talking in general.
It's the same thing for this covid and vaccines. I keep asking for hard evidences to prove what you're saying is the fact. But so far, I haven't seen it. I'm asking because you seem like you know more than me. You seem pretty confident at that you believe on this. I don't buy sayings like "the experts say it, so believe it." I need to see the "datas" and evidences to back that up. So far, I haven't found one that goes along with more vaxed areas are performing "better." And you haven't been able to provide that either. For me, what morekoas is saying and what you or eyephone or most majority here are saying are all the same. They're just different opinions. No hard evidences.
There is hard evidence. Sheeeesh
This guy always disputes the vaccine, but he got the vaccine. Also, he wears a mask in church.
I mean why do all that if the vaccine or mask doesnt work?
Where is the hard evidence? Screengrab it. Post it. Show it. I'll really believe you if you find it. I would do the same with posting bible verses, explaining hard evidences along, if you were to ask me how is Jesus the Son of God.
For your comments on making fun of me, you still seem not getthing what I'm really saying so I won't even bother defending.