coronavirus
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See... that's how your comments sound.
No one is looking for zero fatality... it's still about mitigation, flattening the curve, preventing transmission and reducing hospitalization and deaths. This is what vaccinations, masks, distancing and restrictions do... but saying they don't really work is not only dishonest but myopic. Just like we don't have smoking in restaurants, tons of safety features in cars, no more dropdown cribs... life is different and we need to follow the protocols or more will be seriously affected or die (not zero).
Imagine if we didn't do any of this? People dying in the streets... no one able to get any emergency services and hospitals overrun (just like we've seen glimpses of for every surge). That not only increases fatalities for non-Covid cases but for everything... including a massive negative impact on mental health that is worse than negative quality and would cause even more self-harm/suicides. I don't know if you know anyone in India but this last surge was horrible over there.
My point, and maybe Mety can understand this, is you can't just sit in your "I already got Covid and I'm fine" Ivory Tower and criticize what is being done. Just because it had little impact in your personal circle does not mean that what has been done and what is being done is not necessary.
Using phrases like "natural immunity" is so empty. You have no idea what the long term effects of Covid are... it's like "I already have cancer so I'm not worried about it".
And your comparison to pre-vax and post-vax is so misleading. You do know Delta is much more transmissible than last year's strain? And that now that most restrictions have been lifted, people are not observing previous precautions, social events are back, many don't want to vax etc etc... so of course numbers are going to be similar or even higher. Just remember, vaccination's main purpose is not to prevent you from getting Covid, it's to prevent serious illness and death. And in places where vax rates are higher, that's been successful. I posted OC's stats which Mety didn't bother to check... but if you look at the places with low vax rates, you'll see the death rates similar to last year... all of this tracks. Not sure why morekaos (and maybe Mety) don't get it.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
But virus is gonna virus right? You may think you're not, but your comments are consistently insensitive... read the room better. Or maybe you and Mety aren't able to sympathize.morekaos said:
But suicide is gonna suicide right? No one committed suicide that I know so there must be something mentally wrong with those two totally unrelated to Covid restrictions.
See... that's how your comments sound.
No one is looking for zero fatality... it's still about mitigation, flattening the curve, preventing transmission and reducing hospitalization and deaths. This is what vaccinations, masks, distancing and restrictions do... but saying they don't really work is not only dishonest but myopic. Just like we don't have smoking in restaurants, tons of safety features in cars, no more dropdown cribs... life is different and we need to follow the protocols or more will be seriously affected or die (not zero).
Imagine if we didn't do any of this? People dying in the streets... no one able to get any emergency services and hospitals overrun (just like we've seen glimpses of for every surge). That not only increases fatalities for non-Covid cases but for everything... including a massive negative impact on mental health that is worse than negative quality and would cause even more self-harm/suicides. I don't know if you know anyone in India but this last surge was horrible over there.
My point, and maybe Mety can understand this, is you can't just sit in your "I already got Covid and I'm fine" Ivory Tower and criticize what is being done. Just because it had little impact in your personal circle does not mean that what has been done and what is being done is not necessary.
Using phrases like "natural immunity" is so empty. You have no idea what the long term effects of Covid are... it's like "I already have cancer so I'm not worried about it".
And your comparison to pre-vax and post-vax is so misleading. You do know Delta is much more transmissible than last year's strain? And that now that most restrictions have been lifted, people are not observing previous precautions, social events are back, many don't want to vax etc etc... so of course numbers are going to be similar or even higher. Just remember, vaccination's main purpose is not to prevent you from getting Covid, it's to prevent serious illness and death. And in places where vax rates are higher, that's been successful. I posted OC's stats which Mety didn't bother to check... but if you look at the places with low vax rates, you'll see the death rates similar to last year... all of this tracks. Not sure why morekaos (and maybe Mety) don't get it.
nosuchreality
Well-known member
250,000 pediatric cases in a week, 2400 hospitalizations. For pediatric cases that about 3x the rate of flu.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/09/08/covid-delta-variant-live-updates/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/09/08/covid-delta-variant-live-updates/
morekaos
Well-known member
IHO, WADR, this always has been a discussion group. We all are experiencing this pandemic differently and experiencing loss in very different ways. It's not personal. I view this in a less emotional analysis. One of the reasons that I see Natural immunity as the ultimate answer. It's not an ivory tower of one...its an ivory plain with tens of millions who have had it and recovered. Like the Spanish flu, when there were no vaccines...natural immunity eventually solved the issue. It is the way we, as a species, have earned our right to live in this world. We can try to combat the natural world but in the end we will either prolong or at best delay the inevitable. You put too much faith in those five pound masses of mush in our skulls. I also have heavy amount of cynicism in governments ability to solve much. Although intention may be good...the outcomes rarely are. Like government intervention in the real estate markets...created the problem then ultimately just prolonged the inevitable collapse followed by a natural recovery of those markets. This will follow a similar path.
Dr. Makary Says Natural Immunity Is More Effective Then Vaccine Immunity
Dr. Marty Makary, a professor at John Hopkins School of Medicine, during an appearance on The Vince Coglianese Show, said individuals formerly infected with COVID-19 are seven times more likely then vaccinated people to fight off the virus.
?It appears that natural immunity is better against the Delta variant. When you get infected with COVID, your body?s immune system develops antibodies to the entire surface of the virus,? Makary said. ?Not just the slight protein that the vaccines gives you, but the entire surface. And so you get a more diverse antibody portfolio in your system.?
Makary said data from Israel revealed that natural immunity appears to be 6.7x more effective than being vaccinated when it comes to fighting off COVID-19.
?One of the great failures of our medical leadership has been ignoring the half of America with natural immunity, which is the half of non-vaccinated folks.?
Dr. Makary Says Natural Immunity Is More Effective Then Vaccine Immunity
Dr. Marty Makary, a professor at John Hopkins School of Medicine, during an appearance on The Vince Coglianese Show, said individuals formerly infected with COVID-19 are seven times more likely then vaccinated people to fight off the virus.
?It appears that natural immunity is better against the Delta variant. When you get infected with COVID, your body?s immune system develops antibodies to the entire surface of the virus,? Makary said. ?Not just the slight protein that the vaccines gives you, but the entire surface. And so you get a more diverse antibody portfolio in your system.?
Makary said data from Israel revealed that natural immunity appears to be 6.7x more effective than being vaccinated when it comes to fighting off COVID-19.
?One of the great failures of our medical leadership has been ignoring the half of America with natural immunity, which is the half of non-vaccinated folks.?
morekaos
Well-known member
We will never be rid of this....
WHO says Covid will mutate like the flu and is likely here to stay
Covid-19 is likely ?here to stay with us? as the virus continues to mutate in unvaccinated countries across the world and previous hopes of eradicating it diminish, WHO officials said.
?People have said we?re going to eliminate or eradicate the virus,? Ryan said. ?No we?re not, very, very unlikely.?
Covid-19 is likely ?here to stay with us? as the virus continues to mutate in unvaccinated countries across the world and previous hopes of eradicating it diminish, global health officials said Tuesday.
?I think this virus is here to stay with us and it will evolve like influenza pandemic viruses, it will evolve to become one of the other viruses that affects us,? Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the World Health Organization?s Health Emergencies Program, said at a press briefing.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/07/who-says-covid-is-here-to-stay-as-hopes-for-eradicating-the-virus-diminish.html?__source=iosappshare%7Ccom.apple.UIKit.activity.Mail
WHO says Covid will mutate like the flu and is likely here to stay
Covid-19 is likely ?here to stay with us? as the virus continues to mutate in unvaccinated countries across the world and previous hopes of eradicating it diminish, WHO officials said.
?People have said we?re going to eliminate or eradicate the virus,? Ryan said. ?No we?re not, very, very unlikely.?
Covid-19 is likely ?here to stay with us? as the virus continues to mutate in unvaccinated countries across the world and previous hopes of eradicating it diminish, global health officials said Tuesday.
?I think this virus is here to stay with us and it will evolve like influenza pandemic viruses, it will evolve to become one of the other viruses that affects us,? Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the World Health Organization?s Health Emergencies Program, said at a press briefing.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/07/who-says-covid-is-here-to-stay-as-hopes-for-eradicating-the-virus-diminish.html?__source=iosappshare%7Ccom.apple.UIKit.activity.Mail
morekaos
Well-known member
We have a real country to compare with....
Daily COVID Deaths in Sweden Hit Zero, as Other Nations Brace for More Lockdowns
Sweden isn't in the news much these days. There's a reason for that.
Sweden, of course, was maligned in 2020 for foregoing a strict lockdown. The Guardian called its approach ?a catastrophe? in the making, while CBS News said Sweden had become ?an example of how not to handle COVID-19.?
Despite these criticisms, Sweden?s laissez-faire approach to the pandemic continues today. In contrast to its European neighbors, Sweden is welcoming tourists. Businesses and schools are open with almost no restrictions. And as far as masks are concerned, not only is there no mandate in place, Swedish health officials are not even recommending them.
What are the results of Sweden?s much-derided laissez-faire policy? Data show the 7-day rolling average for COVID deaths yesterday was zero (see below). As in nada. And it?s been at zero for about a week now.
While many nations are gearing up for more lockdowns, daily deaths in Sweden are still at 0.
This isn't what they said would happen. pic.twitter.com/udOcaacwx4
? Jon Miltimore (@miltimore79) July 22, 2021
https://fee.org/articles/daily-covid-deaths-in-sweden-hit-zero-as-other-nations-brace-for-more-lockdowns/
Daily COVID Deaths in Sweden Hit Zero, as Other Nations Brace for More Lockdowns
Sweden isn't in the news much these days. There's a reason for that.
Sweden, of course, was maligned in 2020 for foregoing a strict lockdown. The Guardian called its approach ?a catastrophe? in the making, while CBS News said Sweden had become ?an example of how not to handle COVID-19.?
Despite these criticisms, Sweden?s laissez-faire approach to the pandemic continues today. In contrast to its European neighbors, Sweden is welcoming tourists. Businesses and schools are open with almost no restrictions. And as far as masks are concerned, not only is there no mandate in place, Swedish health officials are not even recommending them.
What are the results of Sweden?s much-derided laissez-faire policy? Data show the 7-day rolling average for COVID deaths yesterday was zero (see below). As in nada. And it?s been at zero for about a week now.
While many nations are gearing up for more lockdowns, daily deaths in Sweden are still at 0.
This isn't what they said would happen. pic.twitter.com/udOcaacwx4
? Jon Miltimore (@miltimore79) July 22, 2021
https://fee.org/articles/daily-covid-deaths-in-sweden-hit-zero-as-other-nations-brace-for-more-lockdowns/
nosuchreality
Well-known member
One dead, two dead
Maybe we will wear a mask.
Texas? approach.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/educ...9165b8-0ffc-11ec-882f-2dd15a067dc4_story.html
Apologies to Dr. Seuss and the families affected for the parody.
Maybe we will wear a mask.
Texas? approach.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/educ...9165b8-0ffc-11ec-882f-2dd15a067dc4_story.html
Apologies to Dr. Seuss and the families affected for the parody.
There is no scientific evidence why everyone should be vaccinated. The young, the pregnanted, the ones with prior infections. Why blanket?
I think vaccine definitely help, but a blanket requirement that every one 100% should be vaccinated is absurd. We don't live in a black and white, absolute world.
I think vaccine definitely help, but a blanket requirement that every one 100% should be vaccinated is absurd. We don't live in a black and white, absolute world.
zubs
Well-known member
The top US pandemic doctor Fauci says get vaccinated and wear a mask
This should be the end of the argument, but covid deniers will find any reason to go against this advice.
You can find any reason you want to justify your shitty behavior.
I prefer to listen to the USA's top expert.
If he's not the top expert kick him off.....but WAIT! he's still there? ???
Why do we pay him $500,000/year and then not listen to him!?
This should be the end of the argument, but covid deniers will find any reason to go against this advice.
You can find any reason you want to justify your shitty behavior.
I prefer to listen to the USA's top expert.
If he's not the top expert kick him off.....but WAIT! he's still there? ???
Why do we pay him $500,000/year and then not listen to him!?