Cityplace in Santa Ana

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Went back to City Place with my friend today, after talking with the sellers, I (subtly) steered her clear from buying this property.



I don't think the sellers were too happy though.
 
[quote author="Shooby" date=1232265375]Went back to City Place with my friend today, after talking with the sellers, I (subtly) steered her clear from buying this property.



I don't think the sellers were too happy though.</blockquote>


Suckers are hard to find and you stole one from them. Damn right they weren't happy!
 
my husband and I too have been looking at CityPlace. We have been sitting on the sidelines waiting for the builder to come to a reality check. Between City Place and Old Town Tustin's "live work lofts" it seems the denial phase is rooted pretty deep. We drive by and even though the sales reps tell us they are selling, who ever has bought are not quick to move in.



as a side note:

I like the look of lofts, the contemporary design and openness, after looking at houses in the area its hard to find that look without a lot of re-work. Anyone know some secret area in OC that might offer up an alternative?
 
[quote author="dizzle" date=1232378033]my husband and I too have been looking at CityPlace. We have been sitting on the sidelines waiting for the builder to come to a reality check. Between City Place and Old Town Tustin's "live work lofts" it seems the denial phase is rooted pretty deep. We drive by and even though the sales reps tell us they are selling, who ever has bought are not quick to move in.



as a side note:

I like the look of lofts, the contemporary design and openness, after looking at houses in the area its hard to find that look without a lot of re-work. Anyone know some secret area in OC that might offer up an alternative?</blockquote>


Sounds like you found what you want, just wait and the prices will come way down. I live in the area and what you are looking for is the opposite of the houses in my neighborhood, but good luck to you!
 
After seeing the Cityplace and Barker (L.A.downtown) lofts, I thought it'd be unique and "cool" to live in an unconventional loft, but the problem is developers are selling loft type units at premiums to conventional floorplans when loft living is actually less convenient than traditional townhomes (they have no dividers between rooms, exposed ductwork, etc.). I don't know much about housing history, but seems to me lofts like in NY and SF were originally low priced places converted from industrial use to living space, so loft living was originally cheaper than traditional living just like high rise living was cheaper than SFR living in the city. Somehow developers in the OC decided they'd do things the other way, like making OC high rises more expensive than SFR and making loft living more expensive than townhomes. Although loft living seems kind of unique and interesting, I'm not wanting to pay a premium for it, I'm waiting for the air to go out of the developer balloons and wait for loft/high rise living to be lower than traditional housing like the good old days, or if not, resales ought to settle the matter.
 
Loft living originally started from old warehouse conversions occupying prime location convenient to downtown. Structural system supporting many of the multistory structure allowed for minimum modification. In order to negotiate for light many units were deep ended with just one side with light. The elevator core was in the middle of the building. The active spaces encompassing living and dining were oriented to the perimeter to take advantage of light and ventilation. Bedroom per code also required light and ventilation as well. Some lofts would dedicate some perimeter for a bedroom but the economic formula mostly would not permit that as a result bedrooms ?area? was situated away from window and must have no physical barriers such as floor to ceiling walls and door in order to satisfy the code.



This is the primary reason lofts are open plan. Privacy is partitioned by a piece of furniture such as a tall bookcase. Bedrooms are the biggest curse of lofts therefore few actually have them. This is not a product for families with children.



The lofts at City Place designed by Steven Ehrlich have good expression of forms and materials. There are 2 plan types. One is a 20? wide plan and another is 13? wide. The 20? wide plan has a 2 car wide alley loaded garage while the narrow one is 2 cars in tandem position. The wide units were desirable and most were sold way prior to the auction at full asking price with a few at less desirable business locations facing Park Santiago without parking.



Bisno made a very bad decision that cripple the success of his loft project by having the narrow units. All of the narrow units were unsold. For every 3 undesirable narrow units he could have sold 2 wide units at full asking price. Greed is not a good thing and this should be a lesson for both sellers and buyers. The lesson for the buyers is not wait until the critical moment when the prices totally bottomed out because the best inventories by then would just a few to choose from.



Homeowners bought the wider loft units mostly are for business and few are actually owner occupied for living. Bisno also made a second critical error by hiring a cheap architect WHA for the 2 adjacent townhouse projects. The designs are inferior compared to the lofts and both sat for a long time without buyers? interest.



Surprisingly Asians have been looking at these projects and certainly unexpected as the targeted demographic.
 
There was an OC Register article on CityPlace about a year ago. The gist of the article was that sales were extremely slow, and many speculators who reserved a unit or two had backed out and left even more units empty. But the quote I remember is from the developer himself who stated he was fairly well positioned financially and he was ready to "ride out" the growing downturn in housing prices. He stated that he could hold out for "a couple of years" and wouldn't be lowering CityPlace prices much. He did say that if after those couple of years there were still lots of unsold units in the development that then he would have to rethink his strategy.



Someone who really wants to could comb the Register archives and read the whole story from '07, back when the Register was still trying to do housing stories with a positive spin to them. But it looks like this developers strategy of waiting it out for a couple of years is actually happening. I can't imagine he'll make it through the end of this year though before things change for CityPlace. These units are still way overpriced, and very few of them appear to be occupied. Drive by on a weekday evening and only 10% of the units have lights on. The rest are all dark and vacant.
 
[quote author="MightyAlweg" date=1232439679]There was an OC Register article on CityPlace about a year ago. The gist of the article was that sales were extremely slow, and many speculators who reserved a unit or two had backed out and left even more units empty. But the quote I remember is from the developer himself who stated he was fairly well positioned financially and he was ready to "ride out" the growing downturn in housing prices. He stated that he could hold out for "a couple of years" and wouldn't be lowering CityPlace prices much. He did say that if after those couple of years there were still lots of unsold units in the development that then he would have to rethink his strategy.



Someone who really wants to could comb the Register archives and read the whole story from '07, back when the Register was still trying to do housing stories with a positive spin to them. But it looks like this developers strategy of waiting it out for a couple of years is actually happening. I can't imagine he'll make it through the end of this year though before things change for CityPlace. These units are still way overpriced, and very few of them appear to be occupied. Drive by on a weekday evening and only 10% of the units have lights on. The rest are all dark and vacant.</blockquote>


The lofts are mostly sold but people bought them for business use only so don't expect to see light there in the evenings. Many also installed mechanical shades so light are not so visible at nightime.



I have not driven to the back to check out the town homes yet.
 
Hmm. I have noticed that some of the lofts have small businesses on the ground floor, but many are still empty.



But the "mechanical shades" is something I haven't noticed. When I drive in there in the evening to go to Pinkberry or Schmicks the windows are all just unadorned. They are clearly homes designed for human habitation that simply have nothing in them and the giant windows allow you to see right through the structures.



That center is sparsely populated at best, and totally desolate at worst, so I can't imagine the small trendy boutique businesses on the ground floors are doing big numbers. I do like that it's such a dead center because you can cruise in to Schmicks at 7 o'clock and not wait more than two minutes for a table. But I doubt that's what the developers and tenants quite had in mind when they signed leases back in '07.
 
[quote author="MightyAlweg" date=1232441210]Hmm. I have noticed that some of the lofts have small businesses on the ground floor, but many are still empty.



But the "mechanical shades" is something I haven't noticed. When I drive in there in the evening to go to Pinkberry or Schmicks the windows are all just unadorned. They are clearly homes designed for human habitation that simply have nothing in them and the giant windows allow you to see right through the structures.



That center is sparsely populated at best, and totally desolate at worst, so I can't imagine the small trendy boutique businesses on the ground floors are doing big numbers. I do like that it's such a dead center because you can cruise in to Schmicks at 7 o'clock and not wait more than two minutes for a table. But I doubt that's what the developers and tenants quite had in mind when they signed leases back in '07.</blockquote>


Most of the business are not retail and many are prefessional services like lawyers. Try driving by there during the day time you will see a little more actions. At night I agree the Lofts are dark because most people went to their real home.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1232419893]



the narrow one is 2 cars in tandem position. The wide units were desirable and most were sold way prior to the auction at full asking



Bisno made a very bad decision that cripple the success of his loft project by having the narrow units. All of the narrow units were unsold. For every 3 undesirable narrow units he could have sold 2 wide units at full asking price. Greed is not a good thing and this should be a lesson for both sellers and buyers. The lesson for the buyers is not wait until the critical moment when the prices totally bottomed out because the best inventories by then would just a few to choose from.



</blockquote>


I'd have to say these tandem garages are the most annoying "feature" of any bubble-era housing. They are extremely impractical, and sellers are not offering any meaningful discount to make up for the inconvenience of these garages. Is there any premium a buyer gets by selecting a property with this garage setup? I honestly cannot think of one. So it does not surprise me that nobody is buying these, especially at the astronomical prices for which they are offered.



A typical scenario I can envision:



I go to work at 6AM. Wife leaves at 9AM. In this case I have to back out her car, turn it off, then back my car out, turn it off, and then put hers back in the garage. Or I can wake her up early and make her miss 3 hours of sleep every morning.



I would consider just parking outside and using the rest as storage/gym space, but the builders are not marking these tandem garages down to any sort of discount that is worth it.



The only buyers I can think of where this would work:



1) Wealthy Singles

2) Corporate temporary housing (large multi-city conglomerates, for example)

3) Second home

4) Time share



However, most of the properties with tandem garages that I have seen, have all been way overpriced. Might as well just get a bigger place with the wide garage or even...a detached home?



<img src="http://alexanparadiselane.com.s16786.gridserver.com/assets/images/challenger.jpg" alt="" />





<a href="http://www.freeimagehosting.net/"><img src="http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/d81840c66b.jpg" alt="" /></a>
 
the front of the first floor at cityplace is a small office/store and a huge accessible bathroom (3/4) the same size as the office (stupid, but required by code, i guess).



the scenario that i know of is:



5) a couple where one person works at home and parks at the inside position, the second person works outside and parks nearest the garage door.





works for them.
 
Not only is tandem parking completely inconvenient for ordinary people, I can't imagine living in a space 13 feet across ... I'm not claustrophobic by nature but I kept thinking claustrophobia when I walked through the loft model. Ugh, now thinking about it, I wouldn't live in the narrow version loft even if it was free.
 
[quote author="icey" date=1232448504][quote author="bkshopr" date=1232419893]



the narrow one is 2 cars in tandem position. The wide units were desirable and most were sold way prior to the auction at full asking



Bisno made a very bad decision that cripple the success of his loft project by having the narrow units. All of the narrow units were unsold. For every 3 undesirable narrow units he could have sold 2 wide units at full asking price. Greed is not a good thing and this should be a lesson for both sellers and buyers. The lesson for the buyers is not wait until the critical moment when the prices totally bottomed out because the best inventories by then would just a few to choose from.



</blockquote>


I'd have to say these tandem garages are the most annoying "feature" of any bubble-era housing. They are extremely impractical, and sellers are not offering any meaningful discount to make up for the inconvenience of these garages. Is there any premium a buyer gets by selecting a property with this garage setup? I honestly cannot think of one. So it does not surprise me that nobody is buying these, especially at the astronomical prices for which they are offered.



A typical scenario I can envision:



I go to work at 6AM. Wife leaves at 9AM. In this case I have to back out her car, turn it off, then back my car out, turn it off, and then put hers back in the garage. Or I can wake her up early and make her miss 3 hours of sleep every morning.



I would consider just parking outside and using the rest as storage/gym space, but the builders are not marking these tandem garages down to any sort of discount that is worth it.



The only buyers I can think of where this would work:



1) Wealthy Singles

2) Corporate temporary housing (large multi-city conglomerates, for example)

3) Second home

4) Time share



However, most of the properties with tandem garages that I have seen, have all been way overpriced. Might as well just get a bigger place with the wide garage or even...a detached home?



<img src="http://alexanparadiselane.com.s16786.gridserver.com/assets/images/challenger.jpg" alt="" />





<a href="http://www.freeimagehosting.net/"><img src="http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/d81840c66b.jpg" alt="" /></a></blockquote>


The plan posted is not from City Place. The front door at City Place is not on the garage door side. I could only imagine how ugly the front elevation looks with a single garage door next to a front door.
 
[quote author="fumbling" date=1232451698]Not only is tandem parking completely inconvenient for ordinary people, I can't imagine living in a space 13 feet across ... I'm not claustrophobic by nature but I kept thinking claustrophobia when I walked through the loft model. Ugh, now thinking about it, I wouldn't live in the narrow version loft even if it was free.</blockquote>


It is worse than a jail sentence for IHO to live in one of these.
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1232455913]Is a sunroof required so you can climb out of the top? I don't get it.</blockquote>


Are you referring to the roof latch for the units? It is required by code to have access to the roof top for AC condensers maintenance. Otherwise a walkway would be needed to connect all the condensers on the flat roofs with a ship ladder at both ends of the building.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1232460757][quote author="tmare" date=1232455913]Is a sunroof required so you can climb out of the top? I don't get it.</blockquote>


Are you referring to the roof latch for the units? It is required by code to have access to the roof top for AC condensers maintenance. Otherwise a walkway would be needed to connect all the condensers on the flat roofs with a ship ladder at both ends of the building.</blockquote>


No, I'm referring to the fact that I don't know how anyone can actually get out of the car in the picture.
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1232460836][quote author="bkshopr" date=1232460757][quote author="tmare" date=1232455913]Is a sunroof required so you can climb out of the top? I don't get it.</blockquote>


Are you referring to the roof latch for the units? It is required by code to have access to the roof top for AC condensers maintenance. Otherwise a walkway would be needed to connect all the condensers on the flat roofs with a ship ladder at both ends of the building.</blockquote>


No, I'm referring to the fact that I don't know how anyone can actually get out of the car in the picture.</blockquote>


People like me and BK can get out of tight spaces like that... ninja style. I guess you are not family after all.



BK, is tmare family or what? Judging by the recent posts, I'm thinking not.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1232476110][quote author="tmare" date=1232460836][quote author="bkshopr" date=1232460757][quote author="tmare" date=1232455913]Is a sunroof required so you can climb out of the top? I don't get it.</blockquote>


Are you referring to the roof latch for the units? It is required by code to have access to the roof top for AC condensers maintenance. Otherwise a walkway would be needed to connect all the condensers on the flat roofs with a ship ladder at both ends of the building.</blockquote>


No, I'm referring to the fact that I don't know how anyone can actually get out of the car in the picture.</blockquote>


People like me and BK can get out of tight spaces like that... ninja style. I guess you are not family after all.



BK, is tmare family or what? Judging by the recent posts, I'm thinking not.</blockquote>


I guess not, I am in Santa Ana, you know ;-)
 
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