Average Income in Irvine

[irvinehomeshopper]

Brindisi price rose after 1995 at a small increment per phase and ended in 1996. This small price increment was typical until the year 2000. 2000 was the best year to buy. After that the phase increments were in the 5 figures. One project had a 6 figure increment!

By 1996, I still don't think they had any Plan 1s at $150k... I'm almost sure they were either closed out or priced higher.

And no driveway off a motorcourt was the big turn-off. The house I ended up getting had a nice large driveway on a regular street.

 

[so_scared]

In 1978 Howard Jarvis was a proponent of prop 13. Jerry Brown was also governor then. Prop 13 limited property tax hike eventhough property value went ballistic. For established cities expenditure that drew from property dollars had to be supplemented by raising sales tax. The hardest hits were new suburbs where infrastructure under roads, new utilities, new schools and etc had an extremely high cost expenditure even raising sales tax was not enough. Mello Roo was created to pay for the additional city expenditure. 

Wasn't 94/95 the previous bottom for housing after the whole RTC mess?  Wouldn't it make more sense using 98/99 prices as that's right before the start of the bubble?

I think early 1970, sometime before the Energy Crisis. That would give you the biggest yield, especially if you bought $10,000 lots in Laguna Beach.

Completely agree with you.  1970's inflation allowed people to get a real mortgage rate that was negative while causing their property values to double every few years.  Property taxes were also doubling, but Prop 13 took care of that.

Wasn't 94/95 the previous bottom for housing after the whole RTC mess?  Wouldn't it make more sense using 98/99 prices as that's right before the start of the bubble?

I think early 1970, sometime before the Energy Crisis. That would give you the biggest yield, especially if you bought $10,000 lots in Laguna Beach.

Completely agree with you.  1970's inflation allowed people to get a real mortgage rate that was negative while causing their property values to double every few years.  Property taxes were also doubling, but Prop 13 took care of that.

Interesting, so Prop 13 brought upon the thing that we know as Mello Roos.  Makes a lot of sense.

How does that compute? MR is on new communities right? If so, the tax base would be created at the time for purchase and MR isnt necessary. Why is MR necessary here? it isn't like they are adding MR after the fact to homes that have their tax basis virtual locked by Prop 13.

 

[villiagepeople]

In 1978 Howard Jarvis was a proponent of prop 13. Jerry Brown was also governor then. Prop 13 limited property tax hike eventhough property value went ballistic. For established cities expenditure that drew from property dollars had to be supplemented by raising sales tax. The hardest hits were new suburbs where infrastructure under roads, new utilities, new schools and etc had an extremely high cost expenditure even raising sales tax was not enough. Mello Roo was created to pay for the additional city expenditure. 

Wasn't 94/95 the previous bottom for housing after the whole RTC mess?  Wouldn't it make more sense using 98/99 prices as that's right before the start of the bubble?

I think early 1970, sometime before the Energy Crisis. That would give you the biggest yield, especially if you bought $10,000 lots in Laguna Beach.

Completely agree with you.  1970's inflation allowed people to get a real mortgage rate that was negative while causing their property values to double every few years.  Property taxes were also doubling, but Prop 13 took care of that.

Wasn't 94/95 the previous bottom for housing after the whole RTC mess?  Wouldn't it make more sense using 98/99 prices as that's right before the start of the bubble?

I think early 1970, sometime before the Energy Crisis. That would give you the biggest yield, especially if you bought $10,000 lots in Laguna Beach.

Completely agree with you.  1970's inflation allowed people to get a real mortgage rate that was negative while causing their property values to double every few years.  Property taxes were also doubling, but Prop 13 took care of that.

Interesting, so Prop 13 brought upon the thing that we know as Mello Roos.  Makes a lot of sense.

How does that compute? MR is on new communities right? If so, the tax base would be created at the time for purchase and MR isnt necessary. Why is MR necessary here? it isn't like they are adding MR after the fact to homes that have their tax basis virtual locked by Prop 13.

not trying to argue here... and i'm not sure if i'm answering your question...  but i think this is their claim... 1% prop tax is good enough for maintenance... but not good enough to build new infrastructure (even at inflated prices).

 

[so_scared]

but i think this is their claim... 1% prop tax is good enough for maintenance... but not good enough to build new infrastructure (even at inflated prices).

1% might have been good enough for infrastructure too when everyone would have actually paid 1%. I think the point was that with prop 13, people that saw their house prices more than double paid actually 0.5 % prop tax as the base value is calculated from purchase price plus 2% adjustment instead of the actual value of the property.

star, i don't think that computes because when the community was created, it would have been fairly valued relative to transaction value. You can't solve your scenario by adding MR 2 years after the project was completed when their property values were double.

 

[so_scared]

In 1978 Howard Jarvis was a proponent of prop 13. Jerry Brown was also governor then. Prop 13 limited property tax hike eventhough property value went ballistic. For established cities expenditure that drew from property dollars had to be supplemented by raising sales tax. The hardest hits were new suburbs where infrastructure under roads, new utilities, new schools and etc had an extremely high cost expenditure even raising sales tax was not enough. Mello Roo was created to pay for the additional city expenditure. 

Wasn't 94/95 the previous bottom for housing after the whole RTC mess?  Wouldn't it make more sense using 98/99 prices as that's right before the start of the bubble?

I think early 1970, sometime before the Energy Crisis. That would give you the biggest yield, especially if you bought $10,000 lots in Laguna Beach.

Completely agree with you.  1970's inflation allowed people to get a real mortgage rate that was negative while causing their property values to double every few years.  Property taxes were also doubling, but Prop 13 took care of that.

Wasn't 94/95 the previous bottom for housing after the whole RTC mess?  Wouldn't it make more sense using 98/99 prices as that's right before the start of the bubble?

I think early 1970, sometime before the Energy Crisis. That would give you the biggest yield, especially if you bought $10,000 lots in Laguna Beach.

Completely agree with you.  1970's inflation allowed people to get a real mortgage rate that was negative while causing their property values to double every few years.  Property taxes were also doubling, but Prop 13 took care of that.

Interesting, so Prop 13 brought upon the thing that we know as Mello Roos.  Makes a lot of sense.

How does that compute? MR is on new communities right? If so, the tax base would be created at the time for purchase and MR isnt necessary. Why is MR necessary here? it isn't like they are adding MR after the fact to homes that have their tax basis virtual locked by Prop 13.

not trying to argue here... and i'm not sure if i'm answering your question...  but i think this is their claim... 1% prop tax is good enough for maintenance... but not good enough to build new infrastructure (even at inflated prices).

So that has nothing to do with the need for MR because of prop 13. they could have easily solved this by lowering tax rates in the future after the build out was paid for or they could make the price of the property reflect the need to construct that infrastructure but that would give the appearance of higher prices.

In that case, MR was an offshoot of marketing/pricing illusion more than of prop 13.

I might be missing something...but just trying to understand USCT's connection between prop 13 and need for MR which as I understand it, doesn't compute.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Seems like MR is a pocket-lining add-on.

The 1% at current new housing prices should be enough to build new infrastructure.

But I'm anti-overtax so that's how I feel about everything.

 

[villiagepeople]

not trying to argue here... and i'm not sure if i'm answering your question...  but i think this is their claim... 1% prop tax is good enough for maintenance... but not good enough to build new infrastructure (even at inflated prices).

So that has nothing to do with the need for MR because of prop 13. they could have easily solved this by lowering tax rates in the future after the build out was paid for...

i think that's the idea... mello roos is a bond and all mello roos (or the ones i pay) have a expiry date... whether they will go away when they are supposed to, only time will tell.

... or they could make the price of the property reflect the need to construct that infrastructure but that would give the appearance of higher prices.

In that case, MR was an offshoot of marketing/pricing illusion more than of prop 13.

agree.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

Prop 13 was created when property value jumped drastically and many retired folks who own estate size  properties (purchased a long time ago) on a small fixed income could not afford to pay for property tax. Prop 13 limited the tax rate to 1% of the property value at the time of purchase or changed of ownership. Prop 13 was amended much later for the gov't to reassessed the property value at a cap of 2% each year which was way less the property value inflation.

A large portion of the taxes go to schools, parks, fire, police, libraries, roads, utilities, landscape and social services. For new suburbs the expense is higher and 1% is not enough. Prop 13 also limit a cap the schools in affluent area from collecting. The excess is distributed to the poor schools. Another word Irvine schools do not get a bigger share even when the property taxes collected is higher than Santa Ana. This is the main reason why IUSD in a wealthy district always need money.


Without breaking a law to levying more than the 1% (prop 13) a mello roo supplemental tax was created to tax homeowners for more money to pay for big local municipality spending like widening roads, landscape parkways, schools, neighborhood festivals, additional police units. holidays banners, and etc.

 

[MovingOnUp]

I'm simply stating the facts, your numbers are wrong and are not being calculated the way any loan giving institution would calculate them for the purposes of affordability.

You keep saying I'm wrong... Yet you offer no detail, if I'm doing something wrong (specifics please) please correct me.

I know what I'm missing prop tax and mello roos, which can be significant... Hoa is $110.. Which I knew I was leaving out.. So yes I was wrong... See you had the chance to make me eat crow but you didn't know how to do the math... Sux to be you.
***follow up***
Assuming 1.9% prop tax + mello, that would mean you need a $126,833 salary...

VP - There was no purpose for him to point out you were eating crow...you were doing a great job on your own.

90k for 700k house? Seriously? And now you're adjusting to just 127k? Sure on 127k you can get by, but you'll never be able to buy a new car, go on a vacation, have kids, appropriately save for your 401k/savings. Are you really that naive? I really have to believe you're in the 100k or less part of this lame survey because even for folks making 200k or more, spending 700k seems high when you factor in grad school loans, new rides, vacations, daycare/babysitters for young families, saving for retirement, etc etc.

And this survey...IHO wants to limit median income to potential homebuyers so he can increase the median income to justify his personal theory on why Irvine prices are high. We should just limit the pool of people analyzed to those who are buying in Shady Canyon, that way we can conclude the median price for homes in Irvine is too cheap.

And the other person about the whole dirty gas station or bad neighborhood question about what comes first, how crazy was that question???

The people on this board...

 

[villiagepeople]

I'm simply stating the facts, your numbers are wrong and are not being calculated the way any loan giving institution would calculate them for the purposes of affordability.

You keep saying I'm wrong... Yet you offer no detail, if I'm doing something wrong (specifics please) please correct me.

I know what I'm missing prop tax and mello roos, which can be significant... Hoa is $110.. Which I knew I was leaving out.. So yes I was wrong... See you had the chance to make me eat crow but you didn't know how to do the math... Sux to be you.
***follow up***
Assuming 1.9% prop tax + mello, that would mean you need a $126,833 salary...

VP - There was no purpose for him to point out you were eating crow...you were doing a great job on your own.

90k for 700k house? Seriously? And now you're adjusting to just 127k? Sure on 127k you can get by, but you'll never be able to buy a new car, go on a vacation, have kids, appropriately save for your 401k/savings. Are you really that naive? I really have to believe you're in the 100k or less part of this lame survey because even for folks making 200k or more, spending 700k seems high when you factor in grad school loans, new rides, vacations, daycare/babysitters for young families, saving for retirement, etc etc.

And this survey...IHO wants to limit median income to potential homebuyers so he can increase the median income to justify his personal theory on why Irvine prices are high. We should just limit the pool of people analyzed to those who are buying in Shady Canyon, that way we can conclude the median price for homes in Irvine is too cheap.

And the other person about the whole dirty gas station or bad neighborhood question about what comes first, how crazy was that question???

The people on this board...

sure i was wrong.. i admit it.. nice of you to jump in after the horse has been beaten to death..

"And this survey...IHO wants to limit median income to potential homebuyers"

what's wrong with that? it's his survey... he wants to see the income based on potential buyers... it's a survey... duh!  if you want to start your own survey go ahead.. no one is stopping you.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

To buy in Irvine and if you are just the normal work working folks you have to give up on one or all of the followings:

1. Set aside money for future saving.
2. No money to spend like your friends living else where.
3. Sacrifice on property size and compromise your privacy.
4. Becoming a Mormon.

 

[villiagepeople]

To buy in Irvine and if you are just the normal work working folks you have to give up on one or all of the followings:

1. Set aside money for future saving.
2. No money to spend like your friends living else where.
3. Sacrifice on property size and compromise your privacy.
4. Becoming a Mormon.

i gotta hear the explanation for #4.. what does that have to do with anything?

 

[traceimage]

To buy in Irvine and if you are just the normal work working folks you have to give up on one or all of the followings:

1. Set aside money for future saving.
2. No money to spend like your friends living else where.
3. Sacrifice on property size and compromise your privacy.
4. Becoming a Mormon.

i gotta hear the explanation for #4.. what does that have to do with anything?

They pay a tithe of 10% of their income to the church.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

And a big family of many kids.

 

[villiagepeople]

To buy in Irvine and if you are just the normal work working folks you have to give up on one or all of the followings:

1. Set aside money for future saving.
2. No money to spend like your friends living else where.
3. Sacrifice on property size and compromise your privacy.
4. Becoming a Mormon.

i gotta hear the explanation for #4.. what does that have to do with anything?

They pay a tithe of 10% of their income to the church.

ok... thanks for the explanation... i thought he was trying to make fun of the Mormon religion or lifestyle somehow... there's no need to go there ihs...

also, homeshopper, your writing style reminds me of this other old asian dude that used to post on the old ihb fourms... bkshpr... but i assume he would never be shopping for a home in irvine...

 

[MovingOnUp]

I did the math... Sure I assumed there is no hoa and no debt... But my numbers are right, too bad you're too stupid to do the math yourself.
[/quote]

Before you wrote the above post, you probably did the math 10 times just to make sure. Thereafter, you were so confident with your answer you called someone else stupid and suggested they learn math. 

A classic post that we can't let die just yet.

 

[MovingOnUp]

And a big family of many kids.

And you can't afford extra wives or women on the side.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

The people on this board...

... are awesome... including you.

We just need haiku back up in here. ;p

 

[traceimage]

I've been watching this thread with amusement (nobody likes a good TI argument more than me!), but I never really understood the correlation between household income and home buying/home ownership. Of course it's logical that people with higher incomes can buy more expensive houses...but a lot of people don't buy a house based on straight income. Some get money from their family, others trade up by selling a home that has increased in value, and others were fortunate enough to buy years ago, and now live in an area where they would not be able to buy if they had to do it all over.

Just anecdotally, we have family friends that live in a very expensive part of Huntington Beach. Their income has always been very modest, but they purchased their first house 40ish years ago, and just kept selling and moving up as prices have gone up. If a new prospective homebuyer were to try to buy into their neighborhood now, based on income alone, they'd need to earn lots more money than our friends do.

 

[villiagepeople]

I did the math... Sure I assumed there is no hoa and no debt... But my numbers are right, too bad you're too stupid to do the math yourself.

Before you wrote the above post, you probably did the math 10 times just to make sure. Thereafter, you were so confident with your answer you called someone else stupid and suggested they learn math. 

A classic post that we can't let die just yet.

me calling him stupid goes back to when he couldn't subtract and was saying prices were down 20-30k for homes he linked which were down 9-18k... or what about when we were talking about the hs graduates to ivy league schools... and he didn't know what numbers to use to get a percentage of graduating students... i seriously didn't think he knew how to do math above a 3rd grade level... in any case... he never admits his mistakes i do and i will when i am wrong...