Average Income in Irvine

[davenlei]

KPop time!

Is it time yet, Jumpcut?

OK, this thread has convinced me...I'm going back to 1995 to buy a house!  And, since hindsight is 20/20 vision, I'll know to sell it in 2006.  You comin' with me, Pat?  Just don't go wearing that mullet again...those pics will come back to haunt you...

Ah, if only we could go back.  I recall this apartment building I lived in before I bought my first house in Irvine back in 2000.  It was a 50 unit complex with parking, etc.  The average rent there (back in late '90's) was $800 a month.  Last I heard average rent there is about $1500.  The person who owns the complex bought the property for $850K back in 1982.  So the building is most likely paid off and the owner is enjoying  $75K a month in rental income minus maintenance, etc. so lets say $65K a month or $780K a year.  I could live with that!
 

 

[IndieDev]

Sorry VP, Indie is dead on with the lenders' cautious approach today. They are all afraid of over leveraged homeowners going into default.

The thing is, he thinks I'm trying to trash him when I say someone who makes $90,000 can't get a loan for a $700,000 home. It's a simple fact, I'm not injecting my personal bias, or opinion into the matter. It's simply not possible unless you find a suicidal banking institution.

There are a few left willing to underwrite up to 48-50% DTI using FHA.  These are extreme exceptions though.  Maybe the borrowers are independently wealthy, but have a low income on paper.  It's not the type of deal that a middle class wageslave is typically going to get.

Orange County as a whole is less affordable than it was in the mid-90's.  Irvine is even less affordable.  It's surprising that this is even up for debate.  The demand to live here has only increased while the supply of developable land is getting more scarce.

Exactly. I don't know why I waste my time babysitting here. I feel like I'm the smart asian kid in 7th grade Algebra, and these two guys in the back keep screaming out wrong answers.

I cross my arms and shake my head in shame.

 

[so_scared]

Exactly. I don't know why I waste my time babysitting here. I feel like I'm the smart asian kid in 7th grade Algebra, and these two guys in the back keep screaming out wrong answers.

I cross my arms and shake my head in shame.

Isn't the answer obvious? It is because you love feeling like the smart Asian kid, whether you are or not. 

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

Indie, It was October 1972. The Energy crisis begain in late 73. Newport Beach tract was $40,000 and Laguna lots were $18,000. A home in Irvine was $28,000.

 

[IndieDev]

Exactly. I don't know why I waste my time babysitting here. I feel like I'm the smart asian kid in 7th grade Algebra, and these two guys in the back keep screaming out wrong answers.

I cross my arms and shake my head in shame.

Isn't the answer obvious? It is because you love feeling like the smart Asian kid, whether you are or not. 

True, it's very easy to feel smart in these forums.

 

[usctrojancpa]

Indie, It was October 1972. The Energy crisis begain in late 73. Newport Beach tract was $40,000 and Laguna lots were $18,000. A home in Irvine was $28,000.

Hey, some of us weren't even born back then. 

 

[IndieDev]

Indie, It was October 1972. The Energy crisis begain in late 73. Newport Beach tract was $40,000 and Laguna lots were $18,000. A home in Irvine was $28,000.

Anyone who bought during that time and held for even 20 years made a killing.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

In 1978 Howard Jarvis was a proponent of prop 13. Jerry Brown was also governor then. Prop 13 limited property tax hike eventhough property value went ballistic. For established cities expenditure that drew from property dollars had to be supplemented by raising sales tax. The hardest hits were new suburbs where infrastructure under roads, new utilities, new schools and etc had an extremely high cost expenditure even raising sales tax was not enough. Mello Roo was created to pay for the additional city expenditure. 

Wasn't 94/95 the previous bottom for housing after the whole RTC mess?  Wouldn't it make more sense using 98/99 prices as that's right before the start of the bubble?

I think early 1970, sometime before the Energy Crisis. That would give you the biggest yield, especially if you bought $10,000 lots in Laguna Beach.

Completely agree with you.  1970's inflation allowed people to get a real mortgage rate that was negative while causing their property values to double every few years.  Property taxes were also doubling, but Prop 13 took care of that.

Wasn't 94/95 the previous bottom for housing after the whole RTC mess?  Wouldn't it make more sense using 98/99 prices as that's right before the start of the bubble?

I think early 1970, sometime before the Energy Crisis. That would give you the biggest yield, especially if you bought $10,000 lots in Laguna Beach.

Completely agree with you.  1970's inflation allowed people to get a real mortgage rate that was negative while causing their property values to double every few years.  Property taxes were also doubling, but Prop 13 took care of that.

 

[so_scared]

Indie, It was October 1972. The Energy crisis begain in late 73. Newport Beach tract was $40,000 and Laguna lots were $18,000. A home in Irvine was $28,000.

Anyone who bought during that time and held for even 20 years made a killing.

Heck, just go to 1977 and buy Irvine company before Bren and you can be richest person in CA.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

I heard The Irvine Company was a hostile take over from Joan Irvine Smith. The case was  dragged out to coincide with the bad economy during the peak of 90's recession. For a reassessment of a mere $425m the package included all of the land, office buildings, Fashion Island, Four Season Hotel (now Island), all strip malls, and all long term land leases such as the amphitheater. The cheap home prices back then was also a strategy to devaluing the settlement. Homes consumers also benefitted from this landmark takeover.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

I was able to convince relatives to buy one, another one and another one. They sold many and gave me my sweat equity share and I bought one my self and another one before the price went skyrocket. This was like a slot machine. You don't want to sit on the one just after a big payoff. You keep an eye out for the amateurs to dump more money into the machines then just as they get up to use the bathroom I sit on that hot seat and wait for my dinero. Irvine houses had a huge payoff. The time to buy is 8 years after a recession. We are still in it. Village People is feeding the slot machine now.

I feel like Indie by babysitting young gamblers.

 

[Liar Loan]

Wasn't 94/95 the previous bottom for housing after the whole RTC mess?  Wouldn't it make more sense using 98/99 prices as that's right before the start of the bubble?

I think early 1970, sometime before the Energy Crisis. That would give you the biggest yield, especially if you bought $10,000 lots in Laguna Beach.

Completely agree with you.  1970's inflation allowed people to get a real mortgage rate that was negative while causing their property values to double every few years.  Property taxes were also doubling, but Prop 13 took care of that.

How about early 80's with high teens prime rate? In real terms, prices were possibly lower than then in the 70s.

That's possible.  I don't know and I don't feel like calculating it, but buyers in the early 80's didn't make as good of a return as those that bought in the early 70's.  The high 1970's inflation rewarded leveraged buyers and punished the lenders holding the loans.  With negative real mortgage rates, banks were effectively paying you to quintuple your returns on a hot real estate market. 

Likewise, the stock market was crap in the 70's which made the opportunity cost minimal for investing in real estate, whereas in the 80's, buying bonds or stocks provided very good returns.  The early 70's was also a time of rapid urbanization in north OC which fueled a lot of the appreciation.  By the early 80's, this had leveled off.

 

[usctrojancpa]

In 1978 Howard Jarvis was a proponent of prop 13. Jerry Brown was also governor then. Prop 13 limited property tax hike eventhough property value went ballistic. For established cities expenditure that drew from property dollars had to be supplemented by raising sales tax. The hardest hits were new suburbs where infrastructure under roads, new utilities, new schools and etc had an extremely high cost expenditure even raising sales tax was not enough. Mello Roo was created to pay for the additional city expenditure. 

Wasn't 94/95 the previous bottom for housing after the whole RTC mess?  Wouldn't it make more sense using 98/99 prices as that's right before the start of the bubble?

I think early 1970, sometime before the Energy Crisis. That would give you the biggest yield, especially if you bought $10,000 lots in Laguna Beach.

Completely agree with you.  1970's inflation allowed people to get a real mortgage rate that was negative while causing their property values to double every few years.  Property taxes were also doubling, but Prop 13 took care of that.

Wasn't 94/95 the previous bottom for housing after the whole RTC mess?  Wouldn't it make more sense using 98/99 prices as that's right before the start of the bubble?

I think early 1970, sometime before the Energy Crisis. That would give you the biggest yield, especially if you bought $10,000 lots in Laguna Beach.

Completely agree with you.  1970's inflation allowed people to get a real mortgage rate that was negative while causing their property values to double every few years.  Property taxes were also doubling, but Prop 13 took care of that.

Interesting, so Prop 13 brought upon the thing that we know as Mello Roos.  Makes a lot of sense.

 

[Liar Loan]

In 1978 Howard Jarvis was a proponent of prop 13. Jerry Brown was also governor then. Prop 13 limited property tax hike eventhough property value went ballistic. For established cities expenditure that drew from property dollars had to be supplemented by raising sales tax. The hardest hits were new suburbs where infrastructure under roads, new utilities, new schools and etc had an extremely high cost expenditure even raising sales tax was not enough. Mello Roo was created to pay for the additional city expenditure. 

Wasn't 94/95 the previous bottom for housing after the whole RTC mess?  Wouldn't it make more sense using 98/99 prices as that's right before the start of the bubble?

I think early 1970, sometime before the Energy Crisis. That would give you the biggest yield, especially if you bought $10,000 lots in Laguna Beach.

Completely agree with you.  1970's inflation allowed people to get a real mortgage rate that was negative while causing their property values to double every few years.  Property taxes were also doubling, but Prop 13 took care of that.

Wasn't 94/95 the previous bottom for housing after the whole RTC mess?  Wouldn't it make more sense using 98/99 prices as that's right before the start of the bubble?

I think early 1970, sometime before the Energy Crisis. That would give you the biggest yield, especially if you bought $10,000 lots in Laguna Beach.

Completely agree with you.  1970's inflation allowed people to get a real mortgage rate that was negative while causing their property values to double every few years.  Property taxes were also doubling, but Prop 13 took care of that.

Interesting, so Prop 13 brought upon the thing that we know as Mello Roos.  Makes a lot of sense.

I had never heard that either, but it makes perfect sense.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

Analysis of a modest move up home (add 7 years after a recession not 8 as I mistakingly stated earlier)

1) Energy Crisis of 73 left economy in the limbo houses were $28,000 then

2) Under the Carter's administration interest rate rose to double digits.

3) Best time to buy was in 1980 (1973 + 7 years)

4) 8 years after 73 in 1981 home prices hit 6 digits at $150,000

5) Recession of early 80's price plummeted back to low $100,000

6) Best time to buy was in 1989 (1982 +7 years)

7)1990 prices rose to mid $200,000

8.) America went to war and 90's recession started price plummeted to mid $150,000

9) Best time to buy was in 2000 (1993 end of recession + 7 years)

10) Prices rose to $1/2 m in 2006

11) The current recession is expected to end in 2014

13) The best time to buy will be (2014+7) 2021

 

[villiagepeople]

11) The current recession is expected to end in 2014

wtf are you talking about...http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/a/When-Did-The-Great-Recession-End.htm

do you know what the definition of a recession is?

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

I don't go by government's terminology. I go by consumers' state of mind. The delay reaction is crucial to gauge how consumers spent. You have to learn how to control your foul languages.

11) The current recession is expected to end in 2014

wtf are you talking about...http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/a/When-Did-The-Great-Recession-End.htm

do you know what the definition of a recession is?

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I don't go by government's terminology. I go by consumers' state of mind. The delay reaction is crucial to gauge how consumers spent.

I don't go by price sheets. I go by the actual close price. The extra cost was crucial to how much I can spend.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

You can get just the basic with no upgrades then you get the price sheet price. No one was forcing you to buy upgrades. When you go see a movie do you factor in the cost for expensive sodas, popcorn, candies and hot dogs in the admission fee. The cost to see a movie is $11 and not $26/person in my book.

I don't go by government's terminology. I go by consumers' state of mind. The delay reaction is crucial to gauge how consumers spent.

I don't go by price sheets. I go by the actual close price. The extra cost was crucial to how much I can spend.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

By 1996, I still don't think they had any Plan 1s at $150k... I'm almost sure they were either closed out or priced higher.

And no driveway off a motorcourt was the big turn-off. The house I ended up getting had a nice large driveway on a regular street.