Average Income in Irvine

[villiagepeople]

Ok so I didn't know it was 3cwg... With 30' backyard... I was just going off what indie said "motorcourt and 2000 sq ft."

So with the 900k price and a jumbo rate of 4.75%... you need a salary of $125,166 to qualify with a dti of .36, 20% down.

I am leaving out hoa and mello roos which is higher on the new home also... Higher but not 2.6x the salary increase you said earlier and not the 3.9x multiple of the 1995 price and 2011. 

LeAt me challenge your comparison:

That $230k house from 1995 had a 3CWG, a 3CWD, a 30' deep back yard on a 55x100 lot and San Marcos is on a 40x75 lot, a 2 car garage and no backyard. The house size may be the same but you can't just use similar size homes as the subject of comparison. IHO will tell you that a 2CWG is an inferior lifestyle to a 3CWG. So choose a 3CWG with a 5500 sf lot size home at today's price point then run your math again. BTW to spare you from searching the Westpark 3CWG on a 5500 sf lot. It is around $900k today.

In 1995 $150k was a townhome of a Greystone triplex in Northwood Pointe. In 2010 a unit of the Monterey Triplex in Woodbury East was $550k. It was a 366% inflation. Your figures are way off! What was $150k back then is not $300k today.

$150k was also a Brindisi single story detached resale in Westpark. Try finding a single story detached home at $300k today!

Exactly. I know I'm not taking crazy pills here. I may be an older man, but I've been living in Irvine long enough to know that prices weren't always this crazy even taking into account interest rates, and inflation. I remember when Irvine starter homes and those at the "median" were actually decent offerings.

Do you remember the detatched homes in Westpark built in 1994-1995? Some of them were on Motorcourts on the corner of Warner and Culver. They were pretty big, 2,000 sqft, 4 bedrooms, and even though they didn't have driveways, they did have decent backyards (not TIC 10 feet from the fence yards). I remember those selling in the 230,000s to 250,000s.

You can't even sniff a 4 bedroom detached in Irvine for $500,000 in 2011.

Math isn't really your strong suit indie... But let me try to explain it to you...

From what I could find int rates where 8.5% to 9% in 1995.. We'll use 8.5
taking your 2000 sf ft house for 230k... 20% down and .36 dti... You would need a salary of $47,133

Today you can get a san marco plan three for high 600... Let's say 690k... 20% down 4.25 int rate .36 dti and you need a salary of $ 90,500...

now that's roughly double 1995's salary but if you got a 4% raise a year for the last 16 years that would give you a salary of $88,279...

If that just sounded like fuzzy math to you well it just means to STFU when you don't know how to do math.

 

[villiagepeople]

OMG did VP really buy that crappy San Marcos box where you can't even see the street from the living room?

No I didn't buy a San Marcos... Nothing to hide, I bought in San Mateo...  And no I'm not related to FCB... Your broken English is closer to his than mine...lol.  Say what you want about the crapbox I bought.. But I looked for a long time and I am happy with house i bought with my savings which wasnt earning me any interest, and the amount I'm paying is about what it cost to rent after deductions...

 

[IndieDev]

villagepeople just made my sig. 

 

[villiagepeople]

villagepeople just made my sig. 

If you can't do you own math then you look over at the other guys answers...

 

[villiagepeople]

In 1995 $150k was a townhome of a Greystone triplex in Northwood Pointe. In 2010 a unit of the Monterey Triplex in Woodbury East was $550k. It was a 366% inflation. Your figures are way off! What was $150k back then is not $300k today.

$150k was also a Brindisi single story detached resale in Westpark. Try finding a single story detached home at $300k today!

Exactly. I know I'm not taking crazy pills here. I may be an older man, but I've been living in Irvine long enough to know that prices weren't always this crazy even taking into account interest rates, and inflation. I remember when Irvine starter homes and those at the "median" were actually decent offerings.

Do you remember the detatched homes in Westpark built in 1994-1995? Some of them were on Motorcourts on the corner of Warner and Culver. They were pretty big, 2,000 sqft, 4 bedrooms, and even though they didn't have driveways, they did have decent backyards (not TIC 10 feet from the fence yards). I remember those selling in the 230,000s to 250,000s.

You can't even sniff a 4 bedroom detached in Irvine for $500,000 in 2011.

Math isn't really your strong suit indie... But let me try to explain it to you...

From what I could find int rates where 8.5% to 9% in 1995.. We'll use 8.5
taking your 2000 sf ft house for 230k... 20% down and .36 dti... You would need a salary of $47,133

Today you can get a san marco plan three for high 600... Let's say 690k... 20% down 4.25 int rate .36 dti and you need a salary of $ 90,500...

now that's roughly double 1995's salary but if you got a 4% raise a year for the last 16 years that would give you a salary of $88,279...

If that just sounded like fuzzy math to you well it just means to STFU when you don't know how to do math.

LOL

I'm saving this for future ridicule. villagepeople just proved without doubt he doesn't know how to calculate affordability. No wonder he spent $500,000 for a crapbox.

What kind of come back is that?  Probably cause you can't follow the numbers.

Because your numbers are stupid and wrong. You really think someone who makes $91,000 would be able to qualify to buy a home that is $696,000 on 20% down using 28/36 DTI standards? Literally more than 7x their yearly gross salary? Who would underwrite that? Santa Claus?

I did the math... Sure I assumed there is no hoa and no debt... But my numbers are right, too bad you're too stupid to do the math yourself.

***follow up***
hey indie what happened to your post?  Did you call your financial advisor to calculate it for you? Realized you are wrong?  If I'm wrong I'll own up to it... Something you can't seem to do.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

Sure I get it. With the lower interest rate now vs a higher interest then you can get more house for your money. Interest rate is unpredictable and will rise. Your math will change dramatically. What if the buyers use all cash and don't use financing?

Home price inflation depending on different products have risen to 2.6x-3.9x is definitely harder to own today than back in 1995. Back in the 90s homeownership was possible for the mid 20's and that age is pushed to low 30's. Another major difference is you can get a nice spacious property in 1995 and today you could still own but it is a sardine can.

Your 3000sf lot 2,000 sf San Marcos in 1995 cost about $207k.

 

[villiagepeople]

Sure I get it. With the lower interest rate now vs a higher interest then you can get more house for your money. Interest rate is unpredictable and will rise. Your math will change dramatically.

No argument there.

Your 3000sf lot 2,000 sf San Marcos in 1995 cost about $207k.

Thanks for the info... See indie if you weren't such a dick we could have an intelligent discussion... Unfortunately you need intelligence for that.

 

[IndieDev]

I'm simply stating the facts, your numbers are wrong and are not being calculated the way any loan giving institution would calculate them for the purposes of affordability.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

When you go into the great room/kitchen from the garage or the front door your toilet is totally exposed to the hallway. When you see the toilet each time I hope you think about me!

No I didn't buy a San Marcos... Nothing to hide, I bought in San Mateo... 

 

[villiagepeople]

When you go into the great room/kitchen from the garage or the front door your toilet is totally exposed to the hallway. When you see the toilet each time I hope you think about me!

No I didn't buy a San Marcos... Nothing to hide, I bought in San Mateo... 

When you come home from the front door or your garage

Uh ok.. I'll think of you. Irvinehomeshopper=toilet.

 

[villiagepeople]

I'm simply stating the facts, your numbers are wrong and are not being calculated the way any loan giving institution would calculate them for the purposes of affordability.

You keep saying I'm wrong... Yet you offer no detail, if I'm doing something wrong (specifics please) please correct me.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

I just looked up a similar property in Westpark with the similar size lot and footage as your home. In 1995 it was $185k. $570k/$185k=308%. Theoretically the inflation should be around 200%. The goal is to buy a home 200% of the 1995 price. Some resales are in the 270% range.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

You did buy a new home with the lowest value ratio.

 

[villiagepeople]

I'm simply stating the facts, your numbers are wrong and are not being calculated the way any loan giving institution would calculate them for the purposes of affordability.

You keep saying I'm wrong... Yet you offer no detail, if I'm doing something wrong (specifics please) please correct me.

I know what I'm missing prop tax and mello roos, which can be significant... Hoa is $110.. Which I knew I was leaving out.. So yes I was wrong... See you had the chance to make me eat crow but you didn't know how to do the math... Sux to be you.

***follow up***
Assuming 1.9% prop tax + mello, that would mean you need a $126,833 salary...

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Wait... how am I full of crap... I said starter homes, 2/1+ were around $150k during that time period... ihs confirmed it, although I didn't see those models... but then... I was shopping for SFRs (and moreso in early 96) without MRs so maybe that didn't fall under my realtor's radar (and you know how realtor's back then steer you towards resale than new).

And I didn't say prices now are not way over what they were back then, I'm just saying that if you combine income and interest rates, they are within reach... would I recommend buying? Depends... I thought my friend overpaid for his detached condo (considering SFRs were that price about 10 years ago) but he broke down how much he was paying to rent a 1BR/semi studio in Irvine and the math made sense.

Relax, Indy, just because you want to be right so much and want to prove others wrong... doesn't mean you have to get all riled up.

I don't think it's about me trying to prove you wrong, because irvinehomeshopper and I have already proven you wrong, it's more about you admitting that you are wrong. That's why you're full of crap.

Actually... a realtor with MLS access is going to have to pull up some more data for me. Just because he has a price sheet saying "From $150k" doesn't mean they were available at the time at that price when I was looking late 95 early 96. I just pulled up 2 Brindisi Plan 1s on Redfin and they were built in 1994/95, and both they had sale prices of $168k and $175k in 94 and 95.
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/15-Parthenia-92606/home/4624675http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/25-La-Ronda-92606/home/4624772

It make me think that they might have actually been done when I was looking and were priced higher.

And because I know you have issues with reading comprehension, I didn't say what ihs said was wrong... I said I didn't "think" Brindisi was priced that low because I would have remembered it. The only new builds that I recall from that time that were in that range were attached products in Westpark II and Tustin Ranch. And I don't know how you think that makes me wrong... if ihs is correct, it just proves that 2/1+ starter homes at that time were indeed $150k (and remember... I did say I wasn't sure about NEW builds).

The data is in this thread showing 1995 prices compared to now, yet you still continue to cling onto the ridiculous notion that "interest rates and incomes" make affordability the "about the same" and can explain 200 to 300 percent appreciation in 15 years. Either you're completely unable to grasp facts, or you don't have an elementary level education to do some simple arithmetic to confirm what everyone else already knows; affordability is FAR from the same between the two time periods.

You really need to read better. I said affordability for certain wage earners... not everybody. Obviously Irvine isn't as affordable today as it was 16 years ago... heck... even 10 years ago... but certain people who make a good amount of money (or have all cash), can "afford" in Irvine because they are paid better and the interest rates are low. Even IrvineRenter (who you respect) has said the same thing, that for certain products in Irvine, it's "affordable".

If you could just stick to discussing opinions civilly rather than resorting to your insults, this could actually be an informative discourse.

And you are definitely wrong in this... I've lived in Irvine since the mid 80s, been visiting Irvine prior to that and have friends and relatives who have lived in Irvine since the 70s. You probably won't accept that because you can't refute it but that's why I always refer to the two bubbles that happened here and to how the population has changed over that course of time.

Back on topic... seems most here are leaning towards the $200k mark... I feel it's a bit higher. Based on current lending guidelines, could someone with 20% afford $850k? I guess TIC does do their math.

 

[IndieDev]

I'm simply stating the facts, your numbers are wrong and are not being calculated the way any loan giving institution would calculate them for the purposes of affordability.

You keep saying I'm wrong... Yet you offer no detail, if I'm doing something wrong (specifics please) please correct me.

It's getting late, and I'm busy enjoying my Netflix subscription, but I'll throw you a bone.

With 20% down, someone trying to buy a $700,000 home would need a much higher salary to qualify for a loan like that using 28/36. Probably around $150,000+ just using rough numbers in my head. With your $90,500 claim, that person would be spending about 70% of their net income on housing alone. Think about how ridiculous that sounds, and now really think hard about who would underwrite that type of loan, especially in today's market.

The knowledge is out there man, that's all I can say. Educate yourself.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

Don't forget upgrades and other items like landscaped yard raised the final price of the home at closing. Seriously the basic back in 1995 had a steering wheel and the basic today is like the Civic elevated on 4 piles of bricks in Santa Ana.

 

[IndieDev]

I said affordability for certain wage earners... not everybody.

Okay I'll bite, who are these "certain wage earners"? What are they buying that makes affordability comparable to Irvine circa 1995.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

Sorry VP, Indie is dead on with the lenders' cautious approach today. They are all afraid of over leveraged homeowners going into default.

 

[IndieDev]

Sorry VP, Indie is dead on with the lenders' cautious approach today. They are all afraid of over leveraged homeowners going into default.

The thing is, he thinks I'm trying to trash him when I say someone who makes $90,000 can't get a loan for a $700,000 home. It's a simple fact, I'm not injecting my personal bias, or opinion into the matter. It's simply not possible unless you find a suicidal banking institution.