Average Income in Irvine

[irvinehomeowner]

Actually my friend bought a detached condo.

I don't think Brindisi was $150k in mid-90s... I would have seen it.

@IndieDev: What product mix am I confusing?. I'm comparing apples to apples... resale 2/1+SFRs in the mid 90s to resale 2/1+ SFRs now... something I was intimate with in the mid 90s (including attached products).

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

I remember those well. DR Horton's Verona was in the low 200k for a 2,000 sf home. In 1995 homes were priced at $110-$130/sf for detached and $90 for attached. Rather than comparing apples to lemons. Lets compare value ratios where we all understands since many are not familiar with products, history and pricing when most of you were in the cradles back then when Indie and I roamed the strawberry fields in Westpark. To go by IHO's math value ratio for condos or townhomes today should be $180/sf and detached homes $220-$260/sf with a 30' deep rear yard, 3CWG and a 3 car wide driveway.

Value ratio is at $320/sf and I doubt it will drop to $260/sf. If I factoor in 3CWG, driveway and 30' yard. The value ratio would likely be $430/sf to account for land consumption.

In 1995 $150k was a townhome of a Greystone triplex in Northwood Pointe. In 2010 a unit of the Monterey Triplex in Woodbury East was $550k. It was a 366% inflation. Your figures are way off! What was $150k back then is not $300k today.

$150k was also a Brindisi single story detached resale in Westpark. Try finding a single story detached home at $300k today!

Exactly. I know I'm not taking crazy pills here. I may be an older man, but I've been living in Irvine long enough to know that prices weren't always this crazy even taking into account interest rates, and inflation. I remember when Irvine starter homes and those at the "median" were actually decent offerings.

Do you remember the detatched homes in Westpark built in 1994-1995? Some of them were on Motorcourts on the corner of Warner and Culver. They were pretty big, 2,000 sqft, 4 bedrooms, and even though they didn't have driveways, they did have decent backyards (not TIC 10 feet from the fence yards). I remember those selling in the 230,000s to 250,000s.

You can't even sniff a 4 bedroom detached in Irvine for $500,000 in 2011.

 

[IndieDev]

I remember those well. DR Horton's Verona was in the low 200k for a 2,000 sf home. In 1995 homes were priced at $110-$130/sf for detached and $90 for attached. Rather than comparing apples to lemons. Lets compare value ratios where we all understands since many are not familiar with products, history and pricing when most of you were in the cradles back then when Indie and I roamed the strawberry fields in Westpark. To go by IHO's math value ratio for condos or townhomes today should be $180/sf and detached homes $220-$260/sf with a 30' deep rear yard, 3CWG and a 3 car wide driveway.

Value ratio is at $320/sf and I doubt it will drop to $260/sf.

In 1995 $150k was a townhome of a Greystone triplex in Northwood Pointe. In 2010 a unit of the Monterey Triplex in Woodbury East was $550k. It was a 366% inflation. Your figures are way off! What was $150k back then is not $300k today.

$150k was also a Brindisi single story detached resale in Westpark. Try finding a single story detached home at $300k today!

Exactly. I know I'm not taking crazy pills here. I may be an older man, but I've been living in Irvine long enough to know that prices weren't always this crazy even taking into account interest rates, and inflation. I remember when Irvine starter homes and those at the "median" were actually decent offerings.

Do you remember the detatched homes in Westpark built in 1994-1995? Some of them were on Motorcourts on the corner of Warner and Culver. They were pretty big, 2,000 sqft, 4 bedrooms, and even though they didn't have driveways, they did have decent backyards (not TIC 10 feet from the fence yards). I remember those selling in the 230,000s to 250,000s.

You can't even sniff a 4 bedroom detached in Irvine for $500,000 in 2011.

You have a great memory, I didn't even remember the tract name, but those prices sound exactly what I remember they were back then.

Simply put, if you've been living in Irvine long enough, like me and irvinehomeshopper have, it's pretty easy to see that prices outpaced salaries, and inflation by leaps and bounds. Irvine is still firmly bubbled.

 

[IndieDev]

Actually my friend bought a detached condo.

I don't think Brindisi was $150k in mid-90s... I would have seen it.

@IndieDev: What product mix am I confusing?. I'm comparing apples to apples... resale 2/1+SFRs in the mid 90s to resale 2/1+ SFRs now... something I was intimate with in the mid 90s (including attached products).

Okay that's fine, I'll be the first to admit I don't know what 2 bedroom 1 bath detached Irvine homes were selling for in 1995 (didn't even know they existed), but irvinehomeshopper does, and based on his excellent memory, he even remembered the tract name to a neighborhood I only described by cross streets, I'd trust his recollection over yours.

The thing is, you honestly don't sound like someone who has been living in Irvine since the 90s, because you seem oblivious to how badly over priced homes are in Irvine compared to that time period, especially when you think interest rates make the numbers "just as affordable now as it was back then." That's complete BS.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

You weren't looking hard enough!

Here is the price sheet from 9/95 Phase 5

Brindisi at Westpark
49 La Ronda
Irvine, CA 92714
(714) 559-0404

California Pacific Homes

Cortese-Plan 1 (from $150,000)

2 Bedrooms/2 baths 2 car garage

Amafi-Plan 2 (from $174,000)
3 Bedrooms/2 baths 2 car garage

Venezia-Plan 3 (from $190,200)
3 Bedrooms/2-1/2 baths
2 car garage

Firenze-Plan 4 (from $204,000)
3 Bedrooms/3 baths
2 car garage

I can photograph the price sheet if you want to see it.

Actually my friend bought a detached condo.

I don't think Brindisi was $150k in mid-90s... I would have seen it.

@IndieDev: What product mix am I confusing?. I'm comparing apples to apples... resale 2/1+SFRs in the mid 90s to resale 2/1+ SFRs now... something I was intimate with in the mid 90s (including attached products).

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

Detached condos encompass a wide spectrum. It could be a WTF Montecito at $899.99k or the $300k 1br/ 1 car 800sf yardless plan or FCB's $380k crappy yardless rental plan 2 at Vientos Portola Springs. Neither plan is comparable to 1995's $150k single story 2 BR Brindisi plan with a 15x30 yard.

One was recently sold for $1/2m a 333% inflation from 1995's $150k
http://www.estately.com/listings/info/25-la-ronda--1

Actually my friend bought a detached condo.

One recently sold for $1/2m a 333% inflation since 1995's $150k. Lot size is 3,000sf like LV in PS. and how much is LV?
http://www.estately.com/listings/info/25-la-ronda--1

 

[IndieDev]

I knew it, IHO is full of crap.

Brindisi wasn't a tract I looked at, but those prices are completely believable for what was being sold at the time. I remember when those big bombers near Harvard, and Irvine blvd, the huge 5 bedroom Westpark detached homes were going in the $360,000s back in 1996-1997. What are they at now? A cool $1m?

And a 3% difference in the interest rate is going to make those just as affordable now, as they were then? Yeah right.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

If you need price sheets I have all of them since 1987. Prices were in a linear graph function vs years. It was in 2001 where the graph became exponential and out paced salary range.

I knew it, IHO is full of crap.

Brindisi wasn't a tract I looked at, but those prices are completely believable for what was being sold at the time. I remember when those big bombers near Harvard, and Irvine blvd, the huge 5 bedroom Westpark detached homes were going in the $360,000s back in 1996-1997. What are they at now? A cool $1m?

And a 3% difference in the interest rate is going to make those just as affordable now, as they were then? Yeah right.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Wait... how am I full of crap... I said starter homes, 2/1+ were around $150k during that time period... ihs confirmed it, although I didn't see those models... but then... I was shopping for SFRs (and moreso in early 96) without MRs so maybe that didn't fall under my realtor's radar (and you know how realtor's back then steer you towards resale than new).

And I didn't say prices now are not way over what they were back then, I'm just saying that if you combine income and interest rates, they are within reach... would I recommend buying? Depends... I thought my friend overpaid for his detached condo (considering SFRs were that price about 10 years ago) but he broke down how much he was paying to rent a 1BR/semi studio in Irvine and the math made sense.

Relax, Indy, just because you want to be right so much and want to prove others wrong... doesn't mean you have to get all riled up.

 

[IndieDev]

Wait... how am I full of crap... I said starter homes, 2/1+ were around $150k during that time period... ihs confirmed it, although I didn't see those models... but then... I was shopping for SFRs (and moreso in early 96) without MRs so maybe that didn't fall under my realtor's radar (and you know how realtor's back then steer you towards resale than new).

And I didn't say prices now are not way over what they were back then, I'm just saying that if you combine income and interest rates, they are within reach... would I recommend buying? Depends... I thought my friend overpaid for his detached condo (considering SFRs were that price about 10 years ago) but he broke down how much he was paying to rent a 1BR/semi studio in Irvine and the math made sense.

Relax, Indy, just because you want to be right so much and want to prove others wrong... doesn't mean you have to get all riled up.

I don't think it's about me trying to prove you wrong, because irvinehomeshopper and I have already proven you wrong, it's more about you admitting that you are wrong. That's why you're full of crap.

The data is in this thread showing 1995 prices compared to now, yet you still continue to cling onto the ridiculous notion that "interest rates and incomes" make affordability the "about the same" and can explain 200 to 300 percent appreciation in 15 years. Either you're completely unable to grasp facts, or you don't have an elementary level education to do some simple arithmetic to confirm what everyone else already knows; affordability is FAR from the same between the two time periods.

 

[villiagepeople]

In 1995 $150k was a townhome of a Greystone triplex in Northwood Pointe. In 2010 a unit of the Monterey Triplex in Woodbury East was $550k. It was a 366% inflation. Your figures are way off! What was $150k back then is not $300k today.

$150k was also a Brindisi single story detached resale in Westpark. Try finding a single story detached home at $300k today!

Exactly. I know I'm not taking crazy pills here. I may be an older man, but I've been living in Irvine long enough to know that prices weren't always this crazy even taking into account interest rates, and inflation. I remember when Irvine starter homes and those at the "median" were actually decent offerings.

Do you remember the detatched homes in Westpark built in 1994-1995? Some of them were on Motorcourts on the corner of Warner and Culver. They were pretty big, 2,000 sqft, 4 bedrooms, and even though they didn't have driveways, they did have decent backyards (not TIC 10 feet from the fence yards). I remember those selling in the 230,000s to 250,000s.

You can't even sniff a 4 bedroom detached in Irvine for $500,000 in 2011.

Math isn't really your strong suit indie... But let me try to explain it to you...

From what I could find int rates where 8.5% to 9% in 1995.. We'll use 8.5
taking your 2000 sf ft house for 230k... 20% down and .36 dti... You would need a salary of $47,133

Today you can get a san marcos plan three for high 600... Let's say 690k... 20% down 4.25 int rate .36 dti and you need a salary of $ 90,500...

now that's roughly double 1995's salary but if you got a 4% raise a year for the last 16 years that would give you a salary of $88,279...

If that just sounded like fuzzy math to you well it just means to STFU when you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

So we all agree back in 1995 a very nice entry level detached home was attainable on a 3,000 sf lot with a 15x30 yard and in 2012 an entry level detached home is still attainable but on a 1,100 sf lot, no yard, live off a balcony, only a one car garage, one less bedroom/ bath and no powder.

Yes attainability still exist but what you get today is inferior from 1995 by using a similar price gauge.

 

[IndieDev]

In 1995 $150k was a townhome of a Greystone triplex in Northwood Pointe. In 2010 a unit of the Monterey Triplex in Woodbury East was $550k. It was a 366% inflation. Your figures are way off! What was $150k back then is not $300k today.

$150k was also a Brindisi single story detached resale in Westpark. Try finding a single story detached home at $300k today!

Exactly. I know I'm not taking crazy pills here. I may be an older man, but I've been living in Irvine long enough to know that prices weren't always this crazy even taking into account interest rates, and inflation. I remember when Irvine starter homes and those at the "median" were actually decent offerings.

Do you remember the detatched homes in Westpark built in 1994-1995? Some of them were on Motorcourts on the corner of Warner and Culver. They were pretty big, 2,000 sqft, 4 bedrooms, and even though they didn't have driveways, they did have decent backyards (not TIC 10 feet from the fence yards). I remember those selling in the 230,000s to 250,000s.

You can't even sniff a 4 bedroom detached in Irvine for $500,000 in 2011.

Math isn't really your strong suit indie... But let me try to explain it to you...

From what I could find int rates where 8.5% to 9% in 1995.. We'll use 8.5
taking your 2000 sf ft house for 230k... 20% down and .36 dti... You would need a salary of $47,133

Today you can get a san marco plan three for high 600... Let's say 690k... 20% down 4.25 int rate .36 dti and you need a salary of $ 90,500...

now that's roughly double 1995's salary but if you got a 4% raise a year for the last 16 years that would give you a salary of $88,279...

If that just sounded like fuzzy math to you well it just means to STFU when you don't know how to do math.

LOL

I'm saving this for future ridicule. villagepeople just proved without doubt he doesn't know how to calculate affordability. No wonder he spent $500,000 for a crapbox.

 

[villiagepeople]

So we all agree back in 1995 a very nice entry level detached home was attainable on a 3,000 sf lot with a 15x30 yard and in 2012 an entry level detached home is still attainable but on a 1,100 sf lot, no yard, live off a balcony, only a one car garage, one less bedroom/ bath and no powder.

Yes attainability still exist but what you get today is inferior from 1995 by using a similar price gauge.

Look up what the size of San Marcos and how many garage spaces it has before you post... plus indie said it's a detached motor court 2000 sq... So I am comparing apples to apples... Dumbass learn to read.

 

[villiagepeople]

In 1995 $150k was a townhome of a Greystone triplex in Northwood Pointe. In 2010 a unit of the Monterey Triplex in Woodbury East was $550k. It was a 366% inflation. Your figures are way off! What was $150k back then is not $300k today.

$150k was also a Brindisi single story detached resale in Westpark. Try finding a single story detached home at $300k today!

Exactly. I know I'm not taking crazy pills here. I may be an older man, but I've been living in Irvine long enough to know that prices weren't always this crazy even taking into account interest rates, and inflation. I remember when Irvine starter homes and those at the "median" were actually decent offerings.

Do you remember the detatched homes in Westpark built in 1994-1995? Some of them were on Motorcourts on the corner of Warner and Culver. They were pretty big, 2,000 sqft, 4 bedrooms, and even though they didn't have driveways, they did have decent backyards (not TIC 10 feet from the fence yards). I remember those selling in the 230,000s to 250,000s.

You can't even sniff a 4 bedroom detached in Irvine for $500,000 in 2011.

Math isn't really your strong suit indie... But let me try to explain it to you...

From what I could find int rates where 8.5% to 9% in 1995.. We'll use 8.5
taking your 2000 sf ft house for 230k... 20% down and .36 dti... You would need a salary of $47,133

Today you can get a san marco plan three for high 600... Let's say 690k... 20% down 4.25 int rate .36 dti and you need a salary of $ 90,500...

now that's roughly double 1995's salary but if you got a 4% raise a year for the last 16 years that would give you a salary of $88,279...

If that just sounded like fuzzy math to you well it just means to STFU when you don't know how to do math.

LOL

I'm saving this for future ridicule. villagepeople just proved without doubt he doesn't know how to calculate affordability. No wonder he spent $500,000 for a crapbox.

What kind of come back is that?  Probably cause you can't follow the numbers.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

Let me challenge your comparison:

That $230k house from 1995 had a 3CWG, a 3CWD, a 30' deep back yard on a 55x100 lot and San Marcos is on a 40x75 lot, a 2 car garage and no backyard. The house size may be the same but you can't just use similar size homes as the subject of comparison. IHO will tell you that a 2CWG is an inferior lifestyle to a 3CWG. So choose a 3CWG with a 5500 sf lot size home at today's price point then run your math again. BTW to spare you from searching the Westpark 3CWG on a 5500 sf lot. It is around $900k today.

In 1995 $150k was a townhome of a Greystone triplex in Northwood Pointe. In 2010 a unit of the Monterey Triplex in Woodbury East was $550k. It was a 366% inflation. Your figures are way off! What was $150k back then is not $300k today.

$150k was also a Brindisi single story detached resale in Westpark. Try finding a single story detached home at $300k today!

Exactly. I know I'm not taking crazy pills here. I may be an older man, but I've been living in Irvine long enough to know that prices weren't always this crazy even taking into account interest rates, and inflation. I remember when Irvine starter homes and those at the "median" were actually decent offerings.

Do you remember the detatched homes in Westpark built in 1994-1995? Some of them were on Motorcourts on the corner of Warner and Culver. They were pretty big, 2,000 sqft, 4 bedrooms, and even though they didn't have driveways, they did have decent backyards (not TIC 10 feet from the fence yards). I remember those selling in the 230,000s to 250,000s.

You can't even sniff a 4 bedroom detached in Irvine for $500,000 in 2011.

Math isn't really your strong suit indie... But let me try to explain it to you...

From what I could find int rates where 8.5% to 9% in 1995.. We'll use 8.5
taking your 2000 sf ft house for 230k... 20% down and .36 dti... You would need a salary of $47,133

Today you can get a san marco plan three for high 600... Let's say 690k... 20% down 4.25 int rate .36 dti and you need a salary of $ 90,500...

now that's roughly double 1995's salary but if you got a 4% raise a year for the last 16 years that would give you a salary of $88,279...

If that just sounded like fuzzy math to you well it just means to STFU when you don't know how to do math.

 

[IndieDev]

In 1995 $150k was a townhome of a Greystone triplex in Northwood Pointe. In 2010 a unit of the Monterey Triplex in Woodbury East was $550k. It was a 366% inflation. Your figures are way off! What was $150k back then is not $300k today.

$150k was also a Brindisi single story detached resale in Westpark. Try finding a single story detached home at $300k today!

Exactly. I know I'm not taking crazy pills here. I may be an older man, but I've been living in Irvine long enough to know that prices weren't always this crazy even taking into account interest rates, and inflation. I remember when Irvine starter homes and those at the "median" were actually decent offerings.

Do you remember the detatched homes in Westpark built in 1994-1995? Some of them were on Motorcourts on the corner of Warner and Culver. They were pretty big, 2,000 sqft, 4 bedrooms, and even though they didn't have driveways, they did have decent backyards (not TIC 10 feet from the fence yards). I remember those selling in the 230,000s to 250,000s.

You can't even sniff a 4 bedroom detached in Irvine for $500,000 in 2011.

Math isn't really your strong suit indie... But let me try to explain it to you...

From what I could find int rates where 8.5% to 9% in 1995.. We'll use 8.5
taking your 2000 sf ft house for 230k... 20% down and .36 dti... You would need a salary of $47,133

Today you can get a san marco plan three for high 600... Let's say 690k... 20% down 4.25 int rate .36 dti and you need a salary of $ 90,500...

now that's roughly double 1995's salary but if you got a 4% raise a year for the last 16 years that would give you a salary of $88,279...

If that just sounded like fuzzy math to you well it just means to STFU when you don't know how to do math.

LOL

I'm saving this for future ridicule. villagepeople just proved without doubt he doesn't know how to calculate affordability. No wonder he spent $500,000 for a crapbox.

What kind of come back is that?  Probably cause you can't follow the numbers.

Because your numbers are stupid and wrong. You really think someone who makes $91,000 would be able to qualify to buy a home that is $696,000 on 20% down using 28/36 DTI standards? Literally more than 7x their yearly gross salary? Who would underwrite that? Santa Claus?

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

San Marcos is not an entry level detached home my friend. Plan 1 at Vientos is a detached motorcourt home just like the Brindisi plan.

So we all agree back in 1995 a very nice entry level detached home was attainable on a 3,000 sf lot with a 15x30 yard and in 2012 an entry level detached home is still attainable but on a 1,100 sf lot, no yard, live off a balcony, only a one car garage, one less bedroom/ bath and no powder.

Yes attainability still exist but what you get today is inferior from 1995 by using a similar price gauge.

Look up what the size of San Marcos and how many garage spaces it has before you post... plus indie said it's a detached motor court 2000 sq... So I am comparing apples to apples... Dumbass learn to read.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

Is Village People related to FCB?

San Marcos is not an entry level detached home my friend. Plan 1 at Vientos is a detached motorcourt home just like the Brindisi plan.

So we all agree back in 1995 a very nice entry level detached home was attainable on a 3,000 sf lot with a 15x30 yard and in 2012 an entry level detached home is still attainable but on a 1,100 sf lot, no yard, live off a balcony, only a one car garage, one less bedroom/ bath and no powder.

Yes attainability still exist but what you get today is inferior from 1995 by using a similar price gauge.

Look up what the size of San Marcos and how many garage spaces it has before you post... plus indie said it's a detached motor court 2000 sq... So I am comparing apples to apples... Dumbass learn to read.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

OMG did VP really buy that crappy San Marcos box where you can't even see the street from the living room?