Why would someone need to buy?

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
Apologize for the lengthy posts and this will be the last of the off topic. Although my studies tend to be to the extreme but they are nonetheless accurate for a majority of the time. Asian lifestyle and behavioral habit oversea are very different from Native Asian. The brutality quoted is not oversea Asian personality. Although Asian gang and violence do exist in Chinatowns across America my studies include all races in upper class suburbia.



My area of research focuses on housing and retail. I position retailers and anchor tenant mix in major regional mall like South Coast Plaza, Irvine Spectrum, The District and Fashion Island and the various neighborhood strip centers in Irvine and the few that are under construction in Woodbury and Orchard.



15 years ago I help to position Sam Woo and 99 Ranch Market for TIC during the middle of the last recession to propel the momentum of the Asian buyers. The population has double since the late 80's. I also represented Starbuck and Coffee Bean and Tea leaves in positioning them here on the Ranch. Lollicup also is my client where I position then strategically in various specialty centers for their proper ethnic exposure.

Other niches are the learning and tutorial academies like Sylvan learning and Piano academy are unique retail for Irvine population.



The recreation and Park requirements for master planned communities are just equally important for the lifestyle of home shoppers. I know who uses them and who is not.

I also suggest the design programming for builders and profile their demographic. I might be off sometime but all of you are in my district.



Strategy in keeping up the equality of school is important to the success of our communities certain pledges and major company donation to the school district is vital. I help companies to structure deal to maximize the return of the real estates investment.



San Marino was mentioned a lot because of its world class reputation for good quality architecture. There is a lesson to be learned here. This case study if adapted to the methodology of Irvine. Its home value should escalate way above it immediate neighbors Ladera and VOC. A well know planner Andre Duany for Florida have been able to convince his local government to adopt new city standard for neo traditional neighborhood I think we have a chance here in Irvine to improve the current planning standards.
 
As the Standford Prison Experiment (the one where people role-play prisoners and guards) has shown us, when placed into certain environments, we're all quite capable of being violent and abusive regardless of our ethnicity. But that's probably way off-topic for this forum.





I think bkshopr has done a fairly good job with his studies. Like it or not, generalization is the foundation of logic and reasoning. Plus if everyone was beyond generalization and acted randomly, we'd probably turn sociopathic.





In the Asian stereotype mentioned, imagine an Asian American who wants to buy a C6 Corvette. Immediately his family, girlfriend, and (Asian) friends strongly discourage him and suggests that he buys a BMW or Lexus instead. He bends to peer pressure and, when he's ready to buy a home, we find him in Diamond Bar or Irvine (*waves*). hehehe.





This is just my own opinion and shouldn't be taken as professional investment advice. I think with whites, they might see Irvine as a desirable neighborhood, but would give equal consideration to Newport or other comparable south OC cities. Many are willing to buy out in RSM to get bigger house for the buck. But for Asians (Chinese-Taiwanese-Korean-?), they place a premium on being in or near Irvine, in close proximity to their shopping and activity centers.





I believe these factors, in addition to having UC Irvine nearby, makes Irvine a good RE investment. I've bet my money on this, I could've cashed out in 2005-2006, but opted to keep my investment properties and even moved back into one. I'm sitting this RE cycle out. If and when prices fall, I'll be looking to buy another property in or near Irvine and hold it for a long time.





Your opinions may vary.
 
Bkshopr definitely is on the money despite being "politically incorrect" in his generalizations. Sorry Tyler, the man knows what he's talking about. Sure each asian country have their own tradition, and cultures but the <strong>Major thread </strong>that runs through most asian cultures that are represented her in the US today i.e (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Thai, Cambodia...) is the teaching of Confucius.
 
I am Asian (1st generation Chinese to be born & raised in SoCal) and <a href="../../../account/262/">bkshopr</a> has described 90% of my Asian friends, family and community (Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Japanese). It's kind of sad and hilarious at the same time.
 
momopi,





Just to be pedantic (and totally off topic), "logic" proper has little to do with generalization rather the analysis of inference. It is only with so called "inductive logic" that one allows generalization from the few to the many. Depending on the context there are techniques to make reasonable generalizations, e.g., scientific method, statistics etc. So if one claims to have a "study" that first question should be how it was done, so that you can determine if the conclusions are cogent.





penn1,





Sorry to say that Confucius thinking isn't even a thread that runs though all the people in China. For example Muslims in Xinjiang. There is no cultural "thread" that


ties them together, they are similar only in that they are all human.





Anyhow, its pretty clear that bkshopr isn't doing studies on "Asians" in America rather upper middle-class folks with Chinese heritage.


As a result anything that is determined in such a study cannot be generalized outside of the research group, that is to "asians" in general. If bkshopr made it clear who he is actually talking about (chinese) then his comments would be taken more seriously and wouldn't draw so much critique (from looking at other posts, I'm certainly not the only one to find


them odd).



 
<p>Tyler,</p>

<p>I agree with you and many others as well. Many Asians have similar history and literatures. Chinese migration to Korea, Japan, South East Asia and the Phillipine many centuries ago. Chinese writings and characacters are some of the common thread shared by many Asians. Food and spices united many of the ethnic cusines. Taoism and Budhism are the backbone of the religion until the European colonization that took over some of the countries and additional foreign religions and cultures are added. </p>

<p>My post are specically for the Main stream Chinese but some Asians like Korean, Vietnamese and Japanese do share similar aspects due to the melting pot communities that we have today. They all have influenced each others. </p>

<p>Asians are one of the strongest economic demographic of our society. Without them OC and Irvine would not have grown to be a world class successful community. Credits should include all Asians instead of just the Chinese.</p>

<p>The cultural attributes are all positive and my posts are not trying to elevate or degrade any nationality.</p>

<p> </p>
 
I have to say that bkshopr's post is fairly accurate. It's no wonder that UCI was nicknamed Univ of Chinese Immigrants. Disclaimer, I am of Asian descent so this is not meant as any sort of racist remarks.
 
Hi, I am a 3rd generation Japanese American. My great grandparents came from Osaka to Honolulu in 1889. My father and uncles fought for this country in WWII, they lived about 6 miles from Pearl Harbor. My mother came from Hiroshima after WWII and my wife grew up in Taiwan. Being in this country for well over a century, my family is basically a big melting pot; besides a German aunt and an Austrian sister-in-law, there are mainland Chinese (including an in-law who is a Muslim with the last name 'Ma'), Vietnamese (mostly Buddhist), Korean (Christian), Indonesian Chinese (Muslim) and Filipino (Catholic).





I have to say that bkshopr is very, very good....though I am not proud of some of the things he said.

 
<p>-marty mcfly


The movie is violent because it was shot in Downtown Los Angeles. </p>

<p>-bkshopr


You are right (and funny). yes, Asian are obsessed with status & outlets shopping.





Irvine has unproportionally higher density of Asian than surrounding cities.


According to census 2000 Asian population:





Irvine 30% , Tustin 15%, Laguna Hills 10% , Santa Ana 9% , Costa Mesa 7%, Anaheim 12%</p>

<p>I don't understand how this happened & why Asian purchase house in Irvine. Any thought?





There are few Asian cities in SoCal. But the reason looks clear to me.





Alhambra(47%), Monterey Park(62%)


Chinatown, Chinese First Generation Area?


I guess it use to be rater inferior area because it's east of Downtown L.A.





Torance(60%)


Toyota, Honda Headquarter


</p>
 
First time poster, long time reader,


I'm a transplant Chinese form Malaysia, I think bksopr nailed it dead on, don't quite agree though with tyler's ' Anyhow stop the stereotypes they aren't useful in anyway.' comment. These stereotypes dictate why Asians will rather buy new rather than used, 'used or second hand' items are never favored in most asian countries, we can't even return bought merchandise, a foreign concept to me until I came to the US of A... Asians will rather buy new homes and sit on it for 30 years, but these references are more relevant to past and recent immigrants as opposed to native born asians. Violence in asian countries are a product of the govt, China in particular. Triads and gangs are pervasive, but they are underground despite the pervasive hong kong triad movies you see, when asians rent, they never take a care of the apartments, we tend to stick with our own as the white devil cannot be trusted, Chinese in particular are the 'mexicans of asia', we can live and adapt anywhere yet maintaining distance with the locals. Chinese are the shrewd businessmen who will think more long term than most investors.... we will sell our home just to get the kids to school rather than get the kid in debt with govt. loans, Chinese hates help from the govt., they rather take through the tail pipe than complain about the system, they will work it for its worth, like buying and returning a cleaning apparatus after one use.


I personally believe stereotypes are natural to the human condition, we stereotype people and circumstances everyday to protect ourselves, when one acts on stereotypes to inflict violence on a certain group, that's where I draw the line.


I thank all the administrators on this site for their honesty and saving me money from not buying now, just managed to convince my wife to rent for another year, the rising mortgage rates are troubling though, all the time waiting for the price drop seems to be negated by the rise on mortgage rates.....


Sorry for the long rant, just wanted to put in my two cents and acknowledge the good waork that you guys are doing here...



 
Wow, this is an involved topic… As a first generation Korean, I found bk’s research to be fascinating. Mostly things I’ve observed countless number of times myself living in SoCal, so I think it’s easy to conclude that this may be the case. However, I have made some observations about bk’s research that would need to at least be clarified. In general, the research appears to be biased towards a certain demographic of Asians. To be more specific,



- The geographical data seems to be biased towards higher-end locations – high-end malls, upper-middle class neighborhoods

- Research based on learning centers are probably targeting similar set of samples as the geography mentioned above

- I noticed that the violence statistics are also upper class based



In the neighborhoods around SoCal that this research is based on, I agree for the most part that commonalities such as materialism, education, and savings rates represent the general Asian population for these areas. And I would imagine most posters on this blog also reside in these areas, which may explain the general agreement in such an observation. However, having lived in Koreatown and frequenting other enclaves (Garden Grove, Little Saigon, Chinatown, El Monte, Monterrey Park, etc.), I would have to say that if you observe EVERYONE in these areas, those holding a Gucci bag, driving a Mercedes, or having attended UCLA are in the minority – probably by a good margin. If we observe 10,000 Koreans in K-town and 2,000 are holding a LV bag, we’ll definitely notice that and say “man, everybody’s got a Louis Vuitton!”. But we seldom notice that 8,000 of them are not carrying one. And it’s more than likely these 8,000 do not have $100K in the bank either or are driving the BMWs.



Bk’s research isn’t incorrect, I imagine it was for the purpose of some of the work he has done, and the research required studying those particular demographics. And it is true that the culture described in his post can be easily observed in mass quantities around SoCal. But to attempt to base the entire behavior of a multitude of cultures on a study of a specific demographic of the culture would paint an incomplete picture at best.
 
swkin





Stereotypes do not dictate anything, stereotypes are merely peoples half-baked generalizations about groups of peole that are usually completely false. Good market


research is not based on stereotypes its based on well collected data that is used to make generalizations via statistical methodology relative to the control group. Do you


also think the negative stereotypes about asians, mexicans, blacks etc dictate their behavior? Are the negative stereotypes just as true as the positive ones?





Anyhow, its amazing that a list of stereotypes is referred to as "research", I'll have to remember that one the next time I write a paper. How a thread about peoples reasons


to buy homes turned into this is beyond me.
 
gepetoh,


My impression is, bkshopr was talking about Asian in Irvine.





marty mcfly,


Nice to know there are people getting their education from Hollywood movies.





tyler,


I think some people need to have their own castle. A sense of permanence and security....and they are willing to go into debt for it.
 
Tyler, I don't pretend to know anything about Muslims in China; however, I can bet you that those Chinese Muslims still respect, and follow the traditions that is ingrained in Chinese and most Asian cultures; just as Vietnamese Catholics believe in familial piety despite their devotion to Jesus. I think the positive acknowledgment by all of our Asian bloggers here confirms my thoughts that bkshopr has valid points. Of course, not all generalizations can pertain to everyone in that group; however, you must admit that the majority Asian immigrants in the US regardless of country of origin are more similar to each other in terms of their habits than "European,Latin, or African Americans." Of course, as each generation assimilates this thread becomes thinner, and thinner. Unfortunately, the so called "progressive" and "liberal" components of our society refuses to let us stereotype b/c this is "racist."
 
Penn-- I think that's definitely true that any discussion or acknowledgement of stereotypes becomes silenced by bleeding heart liberals.





And, on bk's behalf, I will say that the aspects of Irvine that he noted as being appealing to Asians appear to be right on. Bk, I would love to see your research if it were published, but I suspect that it is owned by a company. Either way, I'll bet it's facinating and that there would it no doubt engender more poignant discussion. Marketing studies that pertain to ethnic groups no doubt have to boil down their findings to "yes we should build lollicup" or "no, we shouldn't." I think that's important to remember-- not everyone in a particular group is the same, but it is useful to speak about aggregate trends in terms of economics.
 
To: JP





I asked my buddy's mother, who's from Taiwan and immigrated with her kids to California in 1987. She said at the time Irvine was still very rural and offered very good deals on housing. She was able to purchase a newish single family home for only $140,000. In comparison, an older and smaller house in La Habra at the time would've been $160,000. The Asian population boomed, Ranch 99 on Culver opened, and rest is history.





She also noted that many of her Asian neighbors at the time were stay at home mom's, with their husbands working overseas. The father sends the wife and kids over here and goes back home (Taiwan, Hong Kong, ?) to work and make $$. In the early days it was quite boring, and since the HOA associations didn't allow installation of those big old satellite dishes, they stuck them in the backyard so they could watch Chinese TV on satellite.





I don't have any statistics or numbers to show how large this demographic group was, it's just from asking 1 person. But I will say that if you look at the demographic trends for cities like Arcadia, San Marino, San Gabriel, Diamond Bar, etc., it's possible that Irvine may have an Asian majority in 20 years. I'm bullish on Irvine RE for the long-term.








On an unrelated note, has anyone else eaten at Din Tai Fung in Arcadia? I've eaten the steamed buns at different branches of this restaurant in 3 or 4 countries now. I think it'd be quite funny if they sold T-shirts like Hard Rock Cafe. "Din Tai Fung Singapore", "Din Tai Fung Arcadia", etc.
 
penn1,





Having associated with many different Asian folks I can honestly say I haven't noticed any generalization that holds of all of them. You keep mentioning Confucian aspects of matters, but there


are two problems with it. Firstly it doesn't apply to all Asians, just those that have Chinese influence. Secondly a lot of Confucian thinking died while Mao was in power. I think the second point


makes my experiences with Chinese much different than others. Most of the Chinese people I'm around are young mainland Chinese that were born in China post-Mao, from my experience


they are rather different than the Chinese-Americans in Irvine who either left China before or during Mao's reign, from Taiwan, or from HK. Also, this isn't a liberal vs conservative issue.


For example conservative and liberal Jews alike don't like being referred to as cheap. Stereotypes aren't science, they rarely have any sort of scientific basis when one tries to justify them with


mathematical/scientific methods.





Anyhow, to me BK's claims are much like "Black people like fried chicken". Although this statement may be partially true for a segment of black Americans, when you start to look at recent


African immigrants etc it starts to sound silly.
 
<p>momopi... i've also heard the same story from your buddy's mother, on how many chinese have immigrated to irvine back in the 80s, 90s. it's interesting out of all the cities in this orange county area, irvine has evolved into the main "melting pot" for asians with the majority of chinese descent. why not tustin, costa mesa, laguna hills, etc etc? it must be the ranch 99!





i grew up and lived in the cities san gabriel, temple city, arcadia, and also familiar with the surrounding areas such as el monte, pasadena, san marino as you mentioned... and now i have lived in irvine for over 12 years. in my eyes, i've seen the asian population slowly grow in these cities, unlike monterey park or alhambra where it seemed the asian population was already abundant.





regarding din tai fung in arcadia, i heard all the hoopla about that place and finally tried it a few months ago (after what seemed like the longest 1 hour wait with a growling stomach). good food, but i don't think it's worth the wait... however i was amazed how packed it was people and how there are always lines whenever i drive by the place. it made me wonder what a killing these people were making and how well a din tai fung would do in irvine? good idea on the t-shirts and souvenirs, but i must admit, according to bkshopr, would asians make such "intangible spending?"


</p>
 
I would have to disagree with you, Tyler, I do not think the fried chicken comment is equivalent to bk’s statements. I think bk is making statements based on marketing research, not on assumptions based on his anecdotal observations. That puts some validity into his statements. In marketing, you have to make that type of generalizations because you are trying to find a viable market for the product you are trying to sell. I’m guessing those generalizations were the product of the demographics that was being researched, and I would have to agree with many of them. For example, if they did a marketing survey to assess whether putting a Roscoe’s Fried Chicken in South Central would be a good idea, they would do the research to find out if “black people like fried chicken”. And then if the research turned out that 75% of the black population in the area said they eat fried chicken regularly, then they would have to conclude in their research that “black people in South Central like fried chicken”. And thus, Roscoe’s is a viable product in that area. The statement isn’t racial, it’s a deduction based on research. We just have to keep in mind that such research is not fact, it is just a generalization. But, an important one for the purposes it is trying to achieve, which is sell the goods.



My point to bk’s statements were that the data seemed to be biased towards a certain demographic of Asians. This isn’t saying bk or the statements are in any way biased or racial, it is merely pointing out that the sample data used were biased, with that word being a technical term in stat.
 
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