Who is waiting for Orchard Hills?

[jmoney74]

It takes you 5 min to walk to your pocket park?  it takes everyone in PP 5 mins to walk to the main park.  LESS DENSE!

 

[irvinehomeowner]

We were close to buying in Stonegate but Maricopa was bleh.

Mendocino was better but we were concerned about the distance from our circulation area (drove back and forth there a few times to test it out).

Waited to see what CV and PP had and after seeing the prices for what we would deem acceptable, decided we were not going to compromise at Mendocino.

And the bigger Stonegate SFRs had subpar floorplans and lot sizes compared to the $1m+ homes at PP.

But Stonegate overall is a great village, just a bit farther out (15 minutes!) then where we wanted.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

@IHO

The post is too long to breakdown.  So I will try to do it this way, if you have enough money not to have to compromise, more power to you.  Many people, like me, don't have that option.  I had to decide what I really wanted and what I was willing to give up to fit in my price range.    I didn't have to convince myself of anything...almost everyone prioritize when they buy a house.  My list of priority is different than yours.

My point about the sales at SG is that people are willing to give up lot size for location and school.  Essentially what you are saying is that the buyers should not have to accept small lots from builders but most people are willing to pay high prices for a house in Irvine even with a small lot.  You may not like it but it's reality. 

As for this quote:

do you still think that land value is worth less than structure value?

compare with:

slightly flawed in that developed land is more valuable.

 

undeveloped land is clearly worth less than developed land. 

What I'm saying is that if more buyers did NOT compromise, they wouldn't have to. But like jmoney said, first time home buyers may not want to or care... and that's why you see more trepidation at the $1m+ price point because buyers don't want to compromise... and that was my *point the whole time about the Orchard Hills SFRs that are $1m+*... it was you who kept bringing in this whole slew of product less than $1m.

This seems like a circular argument.  If buyers did not have to compromise to buy a house in Irvine, prices wouldn't be so high and the buyers wouldn't have to compromise.

And that brings us back around to what probably got you all in a hissy:
Quote from: irvinehomeowner on March 25, 2014, 04:29:28 PM
Quote from: bones on March 25, 2014, 04:25:12 PM
And only with the sub $1m set. People with budgets over $1m aren't interested. Case in point: Arcadia and Sausalito. Arcadia sold well before PP opened and people had other options.
And that was my point when I first talked about lot size. If you're paying $1m+, that does become a consideration.

If you're buying an attached/detached condo, it's easy to say you don't care about lot size... because you don't have one

That's is absolutely not what set me off.  It's the need for PP supporter to knock people who choose to buy elsewhere.  There seems to be no compromise...if you buy at SG, you're a sucker, should have bought PP.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

It takes you 5 min to walk to your pocket park?  it takes everyone in PP 5 mins to walk to the main park.  LESS DENSE!

I think you need to rethink this statement.  Lower density means more distance between each house and the more walking time.

Less density would mean fewer people at the park.

 

[jmoney74]

Bigger and more density = stonegate.. Takes longer so you need pocket parks.  Less dense PP and smaller community... easy to get to central location.  Never seems overcrowded.  But hey... you like seeing people walk around a lot right? 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

We were close to buying in Stonegate but Maricopa was bleh.

Mendocino was better but we were concerned about the distance from our circulation area (drove back and forth there a few times to test it out).

Waited to see what CV and PP had and after seeing the prices for what we would deem acceptable, decided we were not going to compromise at Mendocino.

And the bigger Stonegate SFRs had subpar floorplans and lot sizes compared to the $1m+ homes at PP.

But Stonegate overall is a great village, just a bit farther out (15 minutes!) then where we wanted.

Now...was that so hard

If you go back to the Stonegate v. PP thread, I specifically talked about things I liked and disliked about each village.  We decided to buy when we did because we happened to get in earlier than we expected (thus cheaper).  If the price had continued to move up, I don't think we would have bought at Saratoga.

As I stated above, I visited PP models for my price range and didn't like any of the plans.  So I felt fine about my purchase.  YMMV.

 

[jmoney74]

Keep justifying. 

No grass.. 15 min extra drivce to Woodbury TC.. and no trees?

 

[irvinehomeowner]

That's is absolutely not what set me off.  It's the need for PP supporter to knock people who choose to buy elsewhere.  There seems to be no compromise...if you buy at SG, you're a sucker, should have bought PP.

So why are you countering with me? I've never compared PP to SG specifically until you did, just PP to all TIC products, and in this case, this very thread, to OH.

So you rolled me up with the other SG-haters and punished me and TI with terrabytes of words that agrees with me on principle but didn't want to admit it?

It's cool, but you still have to admit that I initially was talking about $1m+ SFRs in OH and you were the one who kept bringing smaller Stonegate product as ammunition when that wasn't my point.

EDIT: For clarity.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Bigger and more density = stonegate.. Takes longer so you need pocket parks.  Less dense PP and smaller community... easy to get to central location.  Never seems overcrowded.  But hey... you like seeing people walk around a lot right?

Seriously...it's little snide remarks like this that make it difficult to keep it out of the personal realm. 

First, you talked about how the amenities are basically the same.  I responded that it's not because of the planning of the development seem to be different and raised my short walk to a park as one example.  You responded by saying that it's less dense and therefore it take just as long to get to PP park.  I responded by saying that lower density doesn't help your argument about distance to park.

Then you went into

1)  More dense there need for pocket parks (probably but I am glad they're near by)
2)  easier to get to central location with less density (probably true but I don't need to go to a central park..which SG also has.  I just need to go to the one near my house).
3)  Never seems overcrowded (probably true...I already discussed that point)
4)  I like looking at people walking (I have no idea where this is coming from).

 

[Irvinecommuter]

That's is absolutely not what set me off.  It's the need for PP supporter to knock people who choose to buy elsewhere.  There seems to be no compromise...if you buy at SG, you're a sucker, should have bought PP.

So why are you countering with me? I've never compared PP to SG specifically until you did, just PP to all TIC products, and in this case, this very thread, to OH.

So you rolled me up with the other SG-haters and punished me and TI with terrabytes of words that agrees with me on principle but didn't want to admit it?

It's cool, but you still have to admit that I initially was talking about $1m+ SFRs in OH and you were the one who kept bringing smaller Stonegate product as ammunition when that wasn't my point.

EDIT: For clarity.

My initial post on the subject was:

SG was clearly designed to offer homes at a variety of price points from $400K to $1 milllion.  I don't think TIC anticipated the jump in home prices in their initial pricing but then just rode the wave.  I mean phase one of Saratoga had Plan 1 at $665K and Plan 2 somewhere around $700K....two years later, Plan 1 is near $800K. 

As I stated previously, SG demonstrate that people care about living in Irvine and things like floorplan and community plans are good selling points over lot size and even driveways. Even with PP opening up, Saratoga is still getting brisk business.  Sausalito is in a really bad position though.

My response to your post regarding SG was this:

I absolutely stated that PP is better if you are buying over $1 M.  But if you are buying over $1 M...you are generally not compromising.  It is when you are in the $600-$800K range that you have to pick and choose what you value. 

I also have not argue that lot size or driveways are not good things...just that people are will to forego them for other things.

I don't see how that undercuts your point at all.

This is post that annoyed me, which BTW had nothing to do with your initial point.

Quote from: OpenSky on March 25, 2014, 09:13:07 PM
Fact is, people pay a premium for crap they don't use - because they value the idea of it.

Seems like IC would rather pay a premium for not having crap they don't like even though others value the idea of it.

 

[zubs]

I do feel a bit punished reading all this back n forth. 
Please....less is more.

 

[jmoney74]

Zubs.. may the punishment continue. 

IC loves less and has to justify his purchase.  No land?  No driveway?  No problem.. he loves it.. as long as it has a pocket park. 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Zubs.. may the punishment continue. 

IC loves less and has to justify his purchase.  No land?  No driveway?  No problem.. he loves it.. as long as it has a pocket park.

Actually...your posts makes me think that you have justify buying in PP.

 

[jmoney74]

HE KNOWSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

[irvinehomeowner]

This is post that annoyed me.:

Quote from: OpenSky on March 25, 2014, 09:13:07 PM
Fact is, people pay a premium for crap they don't use - because they value the idea of it.

Seems like IC would rather pay a premium for not having crap they don't like even though others value the idea of it.

Heh. Why does that annoy you? Isn't it true?

Let me translate it:

Seems like IC would rather pay more for amenities and location as opposed to lot size since he doesn't care about a yard even though others value the idea of having a bigger lot.

I'll admit it was a snarky way to say it but the crux of it seems to align with your copious amount of responses.

But you got me thinking, why does anyone buying in the $600k-$800k range have to compromise? Not long ago, Maricopa started in the high $700s (and more recently Mendocino) and those all had driveways (and not so big yards for you).

Even with low inventory, there are quite a few 4br resale homes that are proper SFRs with a driveway and better lot size (ie separation from neighbors) in the <$800k range.

Spending $800k to buy new, no driveway, zero lot and Mello Roos does escape me. I don't mean this as an insult, I just don't really get it.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Let me translate it:

Seems like IC would rather pay more for amenities and location as opposed to lot size since he doesn't care about a yard even though others value the idea of having a bigger lot.

I would say that this statement is vastly differently then the one you are translating from.  I would definitely agree with the translated version.  We can just chalk it up to being lost in translation.

But you got me thinking, why does anyone buying in the $600k-$800k range have to compromise? Not long ago, Maricopa started in the high $700s (and more recently Mendocino) and those all had driveways (and not so big yards for you).

Problem was that prices jumped at the end of 2012.  As I stated above, we thought about going up to Mendocino (which was low $800Ks at the time) but then it moved out of our price range in about a month.  You have to remember, it's not like you can walk in and get a place.  You had to be on the "list" thus you may want to get a house but by the time your number came up, the price is $30-40K more. 

We got into Saratoga at the tail end of the affordability because someone back out out.  I would say that we got in about a month too late due to pricing and the hike in interest rate when our loan had to fund.

Even with low inventory, there are quite a few 4br resale homes that are proper SFRs with a driveway and better lot size (ie separation from neighbors) in the <$800k range.

I can tell you that re-sale was hard to get and the good ones were snatched up by FCBs.  Also, location played a part in the decision.  We also wanted a new home so that 1) we didn't have deal with issues alone and 2) we can make the house the way we like it without doing renovation while we lived there.

 

[homer_simpson]

Irvine.... poor folks!! JC yo! holla atcha boi!

 

[irvinehomeowner]

@IC:

I understand. That price jumped also affected what we were looking at.

I  know paperboyNYC doesn't agree with me but that type of price jump in such a short amount of time really does smelly bubbly to me.

Add to that the fact that you could buy 3CWGs for mid $800k 5 years ago and now detached motorcourt homes are mid $800k, makes me really wonder what is holding everything up.

 

[socal78]

You guys must be a lot of fun at parties.

 

[jmoney74]

Oh I am So Cal.  I'm actually throwing a big party at PP.. IC CANT COME!  ah ok.. you can come.  :-*

Activities will include guessing how long it takes people to walk to the park and also how BIG our LOT sizes are.