Villages of Columbus - Columbus Square - Camden Place

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1213490733]Yes, short attention span indeed.



The link he posted was people suing for bad drinking water in North Carolina. Last time I checked, and VOC is in Tustin/Irvine not North Carolina. And the drinking water in VOC comes from Irvine, not North Carolina. So I ask again, pay attention now, what controversy exists in VOC, not North Carolina.



Thanks for adding nothing to this thread, again.</blockquote>


Fine, did you click any of the links I posted? There are plenty of reports on the clean up, water tables, chemical levels, the increase or decreases in them, and the future clean up that will be going on for the next five years. Have fun living there, er working there. Now, if you spent less time posting nothing, then maybe you could sell a house or two. Just don't tell them about google, or even better don't tell them about IHB.



BTW, did you ever figure out what a put option is? I did, and I made a little $ on Lehman this week. I should have bought some puts on the builders this week, but the bottom keeps changing every week. Too bad not all the builders are public in VoC.
 
[quote author="acpme" date=1213445934]



i'm not trying to bash anyone who likes the area but i do wonder why anyone can so quickly disregard all the controversies. toxic soil, congested roads, badly planned shopping center, homeless facility nearby, the list goes on and on. it raises doubts over whether the master plan will ever get fulfilled and does not inspire confidence in the city, shea, or centex. ultimately that scares away potential investors/homebuyers.



whether these issues pose a threat to the legacy plan or not, is it worth the risk when you can live minutes away in neighborhoods where the only controversies are how many AP classes the local hs offers?</blockquote>


1. Toxic soil - I honestly think that exposing yourself to the toxic sun is more dangerous.

2. Congested roads - Redhill and Jamboree are pretty congested. That's why they're adding Tustin Ranch Rd right between the two - that would reduce traffic by 1/3 if my math is correct. But Jamboree doesn't just affect VOC. It affects all of Irvine from Campus all the way up to Portola.

3. Poor shopping center - I was around RA Sushi during happy hour yesterday. There was actually a wait at the door. Not that bad if you ask me.

4. Homeless facility - It's primarily intended for women and children. Since when is doing a good a bad thing?



By the way, there's these new homes in Fountain Valley selling for around 1M. The sales rep tells me that they are quickly selling out. That just goes to show that Fountain Valley has a much higher location premium than Toxtin.



Personally, between new in Tustin and older in FV, I would still rather choose Fountain Valley. After re-orienting the map of Orange County, I realized how inland Tustin is. If I can settle down anywhere, it would be coastal Orange County... Huntington Beach, Fountain Valley, Newport, or the UCI area. Everything else (including Tustin and most of Irvine) is not as desirable due to their locations.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1213433008]

Legacy has limited resources from an engineering standpoint in dealing with traffic and utility relocation. TIC on the contrary has all specialist dealing with roads, utilities and all kind of engineering issues. Jeffrey Road improvement is one good example. TIC swerved the road, relocated railroad intersections, upsized storm drain ducts, prepared utilities for the future, and most importantly assigned landscape screening and buffer for the ugly trailer park next to the Arbor Center.</blockquote>


More misinformation from bkshopr as usual.





JUDGE FINDS FOR CITY OF TUSTIN IN ENVIRONMENTAL

LITIGATION AGAINST CITY OF IRVINE



Tustin and Newport Beach successfully sued Irvine regarding flawed

environmental planning of projects in the Irvine Business Complex



Judge Stephen J. Sundvold of the Superior Court of California, County of

Orange Division ruled in favor of Tustin and Newport Beach.



?The City [of Irvine] misrepresented both the nature of the document to the

public and the nature of the environmental analysis it was undertaking. That

violates the spirit and letter of CEQA [California Environmental Quality Act],? said

Judge Sundvold in one of his opinions issued today. ?The City [of Irvine] created

the confusion in the first place and the confusion cannot be argued away. The

Martin Street EIR [Environment Impact Report] and the briefing by the City

[Irvine] both contain ambiguous, contradictory and inconsistent statements and

arguments. Those are not the things of which a proper environmental analysis

are made.?



In the Spring of 2007, Tustin and Newport Beach filed lawsuits against

Irvine regarding two large mixed-use projects proposed for development in the

IBC. For the last two years, Tustin has urged Irvine to study the entire IBC area

and consider the cumulative impacts of changing from an industrial area to a

mixed use area with more than 20,000 residential units. The court has concurred

with Tustin and Newport Beach and found that Irvine has impermissibly

?approved individual projects?in a piece-meal fashion, that has transformed the

IBC into a mixed-use area, without ever having performed the required

comprehensive analysis of the potential environmental impacts of such a

transformation.?



The court in these two cases made the following determinations:



? Irvine violated CEQA in the manner in which it prepared the

environmental analysis of the projects.

? Irvine has failed to recognize that the transformation of the IBC into

a mixed-use residential area ?has potentially far reaching

environmental impacts [which] were not anticipated nor analyzed.

? Irvine is piece-mealing the addition of residential units into the IBC

without performing proper environmental analysis.

? Irvine failed to analyze the cumulative impacts of pending and

probably future residential projects in the IBC.

? Irvine failed to conduct adequate traffic study analysis and disclose

necessary roadway improvements.

? There has been no proper environmental analysis of the transition

in the IBC from commercial/industrial to residential.

? The real ?project? is the Vision Plan and Ordinance Overlay.



?The Tustin City Council is a strong proponent for local control and quality

of life. The members of the City Council respect Irvine?s choices for its City, so

long as Irvine complies with the law in making these choices and appropriately

mitigates the impacts that may fall on its neighbors, including the residents of

Tustin,? said Tustin Mayor Jerry Amante. ?Jamming an additional 20,000

residential units into areas bordered by both Tustin and Newport Beach without

significant studies done on traffic and infrastructure impacts is not a

conscientious governmental decision. This piece-mealing must stop and Irvine

should complete its work on its Vision Plan and Overlay Ordinance before it

approves any more projects in the IBC. Our victory will benefit the residents of

Tustin, Newport Beach, Irvine, and surrounding Cities.?



20,000 homes is more than were constructed in Tustin Ranch plus those

that will be constructed in Tustin Legacy. For comparison purposes, the City of

Tustin and its Legacy developers will be spending in excess of $400 million to

mitigate that development, which only includes approximately 4,500 housing

units.





<a href="http://www.tustinca.org/documents/ibcjudgement.pdf">http://www.tustinca.org/documents/ibcjudgement.pdf</a>
 
hs_teacher - don't forget Costa Mesa! We have major retail with diverse, mature neighborhoods (large lots, homes that are DIFFERENT COLORS!), no Mello-Roos, few HOAs and a nearly constant ocean breeze!



Asianinvasion, I believe that lawsuit criticized the environmental documents (which incorporate everything from archaelogical issues to traffic). All Irvine has to do is prepare a new set of documents addressing the Court's concerns. With the cratering of the housing market - the judge just might have done everyone a huge favor!
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1213498004][quote author="bkshopr" date=1213433008]

Legacy has limited resources from an engineering standpoint in dealing with traffic and utility relocation. TIC on the contrary has all specialist dealing with roads, utilities and all kind of engineering issues. Jeffrey Road improvement is one good example. TIC swerved the road, relocated railroad intersections, upsized storm drain ducts, prepared utilities for the future, and most importantly assigned landscape screening and buffer for the ugly trailer park next to the Arbor Center.</blockquote>


More misinformation from bkshopr as usual.





JUDGE FINDS FOR CITY OF TUSTIN IN ENVIRONMENTAL

LITIGATION AGAINST CITY OF IRVINE



Tustin and Newport Beach successfully sued Irvine regarding flawed

environmental planning of projects in the Irvine Business Complex



Judge Stephen J. Sundvold of the Superior Court of California, County of

Orange Division ruled in favor of Tustin and Newport Beach.



?The City [of Irvine] misrepresented both the nature of the document to the

public and the nature of the environmental analysis it was undertaking. That

violates the spirit and letter of CEQA [California Environmental Quality Act],? said

Judge Sundvold in one of his opinions issued today. ?The City [of Irvine] created

the confusion in the first place and the confusion cannot be argued away. The

Martin Street EIR [Environment Impact Report] and the briefing by the City

[Irvine] both contain ambiguous, contradictory and inconsistent statements and

arguments. Those are not the things of which a proper environmental analysis

are made.?</blockquote>


Um... last I knew the City of Irvine is not the same thing as TIC. Talk about misinformation. Keep trying, we can just add this to the list of ridiculous things you have said. Is traffic slow this weekend or what?
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1213500632][quote author="asianinvasian" date=1213498004][quote author="bkshopr" date=1213433008]

Legacy has limited resources from an engineering standpoint in dealing with traffic and utility relocation. TIC on the contrary has all specialist dealing with roads, utilities and all kind of engineering issues. Jeffrey Road improvement is one good example. TIC swerved the road, relocated railroad intersections, upsized storm drain ducts, prepared utilities for the future, and most importantly assigned landscape screening and buffer for the ugly trailer park next to the Arbor Center.</blockquote>


More misinformation from bkshopr as usual.





JUDGE FINDS FOR CITY OF TUSTIN IN ENVIRONMENTAL

LITIGATION AGAINST CITY OF IRVINE



Tustin and Newport Beach successfully sued Irvine regarding flawed

environmental planning of projects in the Irvine Business Complex



Judge Stephen J. Sundvold of the Superior Court of California, County of

Orange Division ruled in favor of Tustin and Newport Beach.



?The City [of Irvine] misrepresented both the nature of the document to the

public and the nature of the environmental analysis it was undertaking. That

violates the spirit and letter of CEQA [California Environmental Quality Act],? said

Judge Sundvold in one of his opinions issued today. ?The City [of Irvine] created

the confusion in the first place and the confusion cannot be argued away. The

Martin Street EIR [Environment Impact Report] and the briefing by the City

[Irvine] both contain ambiguous, contradictory and inconsistent statements and

arguments. Those are not the things of which a proper environmental analysis

are made.?</blockquote>


Um... last I knew the City of Irvine is not the same thing as TIC. Talk about misinformation. Keep trying, we can just add this to the list of ridiculous things you have said. Is traffic slow this weekend or what?</blockquote>


Dude you are a genius! TIC builds projects without city approval. I did not know that. My bad, thanks.
 
Do you guys really care that much for Tustin Legacy? Personally, I don't think it's that great nor do I think it's that bad.

I think it's interesting to have so much development right in the middle of Orange County, but that's it.



I think I would literally jump like a wild monkey if they tore down parts of Mile Square Park in Fountain Valley, and made new homes. Now that's an excellent location. Tustin... not so much.



As for Costa Mesa, I think it's a very cool city. I just don't think it'll be a great place for kids to grow up ten years from now. The city caters more to adults in the 20's. It's not as family-oriented as Huntington Beach, Fountain Valley, or Irvine.
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1213507225][quote author="graphrix" date=1213500632][quote author="asianinvasian" date=1213498004][quote author="bkshopr" date=1213433008]

Legacy has limited resources from an engineering standpoint in dealing with traffic and utility relocation. TIC on the contrary has all specialist dealing with roads, utilities and all kind of engineering issues. Jeffrey Road improvement is one good example. TIC swerved the road, relocated railroad intersections, upsized storm drain ducts, prepared utilities for the future, and most importantly assigned landscape screening and buffer for the ugly trailer park next to the Arbor Center.</blockquote>


More misinformation from bkshopr as usual.





JUDGE FINDS FOR CITY OF TUSTIN IN ENVIRONMENTAL

LITIGATION AGAINST CITY OF IRVINE



Tustin and Newport Beach successfully sued Irvine regarding flawed

environmental planning of projects in the Irvine Business Complex



Judge Stephen J. Sundvold of the Superior Court of California, County of

Orange Division ruled in favor of Tustin and Newport Beach.



?The City [of Irvine] misrepresented both the nature of the document to the

public and the nature of the environmental analysis it was undertaking. That

violates the spirit and letter of CEQA [California Environmental Quality Act],? said

Judge Sundvold in one of his opinions issued today. ?The City [of Irvine] created

the confusion in the first place and the confusion cannot be argued away. The

Martin Street EIR [Environment Impact Report] and the briefing by the City

[Irvine] both contain ambiguous, contradictory and inconsistent statements and

arguments. Those are not the things of which a proper environmental analysis

are made.?</blockquote>


Um... last I knew the City of Irvine is not the same thing as TIC. Talk about misinformation. Keep trying, we can just add this to the list of ridiculous things you have said. Is traffic slow this weekend or what?</blockquote>


Dude you are a genius! TIC builds projects without city approval. I did not know that. My bad, thanks.</blockquote>


Yeah dude, my bad, you are the smart guy, I had a lapse of memory there. Oh no wait... sorry but TIC isn't the one developing IBC, they have near nothing to do with it. Keep them coming, you just add more and more to the list of brilliant things you say. I really hope you are nothing more than a sales agent, it is the only reason to explain the embarrassing things you say.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1213489961][quote author="asianinvasian" date=1213487338][quote author="acpme" date=1213445934]

i'm not trying to bash anyone who likes the area but i do wonder why anyone can so quickly disregard all the controversies.



whether these issues pose a threat to the legacy plan or not, is it worth the risk when you can live minutes away in neighborhoods where the only controversies are how many AP classes the local hs offers?</blockquote>


Can you post a link to anywhere that mentions any controversies? Thanks. Because the only controversies I've seen so far are the ones made up here on this forum and I just want to get a second opinion.</blockquote>


Sheesh... talk about short attention span. acpme has posted plenty of links, including a site where people are suing from the bad drinking water.



I guess memory loss is one of the symptoms of living there, er working there.



Thanks for adding nothing to this thread, again.</blockquote>


if you drink the water in woodbury or VoC, it's the same... IRWD
 
there is a famous case study involving levis in the 80s. at the time they were planning to launch of line of men's suits. yes, levis. suits. they believed there would be a customer base for suit-wearing men that would be drawn to a label they were familiar and comfortable with. when they brought in a focus group consisting of loyal levis casualwear fanatics, they scoffed at the idea of a levis suit. execs decided those people were not the right target audience since these were casual dressers. so they brought in another group of older, white-collar professionals. they too scoffed at the idea of a levis suit. ultimately the levis execs concluded the focus group results were irrelevant. the younger jean wearers weren't suit wearers to begin with and the suit wearers were snobs beholden to older suit labels. the target audience -- young levis suit-wearers didn't exist yet but once the product was avail, they would come.



levis plowed right ahead with the new product line, which of course bombed.



what does this have to do with anything? well, either you get it or you don't.
 
[quote author="acpme" date=1213595051]



what does this have to do with anything? </blockquote>


There is a living to be made creating "yes sir, rubberstamp this" reports for companies. Ask Pat Veling, who apparently creates just such reports for mgt. These reports provide that extra bit of third party confirmation that the pet project they've decided to do is okay, regardless of what anybody else says.



<a href="http://www.realdatastrategies.com/dataaccess.asp">http://www.realdatastrategies.com/dataaccess.asp</a>



<blockquote>n summary, we provide MLS member firms consulting services and analysis they, too, could execute, using the same data available to themselves or to any other MLS member firms. (We just happen to be the industry leading experts at such a highly specialized process, so they hire us to do it for them.)</blockquote>


If Pat would like to speak for himself, and I'm out of line, I'd appreciate the correction.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1213429885]



I am going to challenge you on the replacement of 4' of dirt.



Area of Tustin MCAS 1,511 acres.

1,511 acres x 43560sf/acre = 65,819,160 sf

65,819,160 sf / 9 sf = 7,313,240 square yards

7,313,240 square yards x 1.33 yard (4')= 9,726,609 cubic yards of dirt to be replaced.



A truck can only hold 10 cubic yards of dirt each trip due to container size as well as maximum weight allowed on local road.



9,726,609 cubic yards /10 cubic yards per trip= 972,661 trips is almost ONE MILLION TRIPS



Has any one seen trucks filled with a full load of dirt leaving and going to Tustin MCAS one million time?????



The answer is NO NO NO NO. Then my logic tells me that they did not replace 4' of dirt as claimed. They did not even replace 4' of dirt on the site or they did only a portion of MCAS and the remaining toxin are still there as potential hazzard to people living there.



Asianinvasion will probably tell be only a smart part of the site is toxic. Then why not just build on the large part that is not toxic and we would not have this discussion. I will just go home and replace the water at the north east corner of the pool where poop was found.</blockquote>


The part that you are missing is that only a portion of the site has been developed, that which I am referring to. Columbus Square and Columbus Grove are only a couple hundred acres. The soil removal and replacement took place in 2002/2003. If you were paying attention then, and lived right down the street, as I do, you would have noticed a few trucks going by now and then!
 
AI,



The city of Irvine and adjacent cities are constantly in sibling rivalries. City of Irvine may have violated procedures and protocol in the early stages. This is not any of TIC problem. As much I dislike masterplanned communities TIC by far has executed excellent prototype retail and residential villages where the two blended seamlessly. Road, access, clarity, dummy proof directional signage, multiple traffic lanes and signalized intersection, Parkway and landscape buffer zone to insure pedestrian safety as well as softening the aesthetic of the man made environment, hydrology and traffic resolution all contributed to great execution of a built environment. What AI posted is red tape and technicality reports requirement bureaucrats mandate to cover the government's behinds and they are a thick file of reports generated by 60,000 hrs of work that no one really reads at the city level. It is a check list to discourage growth. It has nothing to do with TIC's design performance and attentive to engineering details.



AI, you have very little understanding in development and execution of projects. You may be a hostess at the model homes but the real engineering and implementation of good design that yet performed well financially and economically behind the scene are done way before your duty.
 
[quote author="Kiter" date=1213661385][quote author="bkshopr" date=1213429885]



I am going to challenge you on the replacement of 4' of dirt.



Area of Tustin MCAS 1,511 acres.

1,511 acres x 43560sf/acre = 65,819,160 sf

65,819,160 sf / 9 sf = 7,313,240 square yards

7,313,240 square yards x 1.33 yard (4')= 9,726,609 cubic yards of dirt to be replaced.



A truck can only hold 10 cubic yards of dirt each trip due to container size as well as maximum weight allowed on local road.



9,726,609 cubic yards /10 cubic yards per trip= 972,661 trips is almost ONE MILLION TRIPS



Has any one seen trucks filled with a full load of dirt leaving and going to Tustin MCAS one million time?????



The answer is NO NO NO NO. Then my logic tells me that they did not replace 4' of dirt as claimed. They did not even replace 4' of dirt on the site or they did only a portion of MCAS and the remaining toxin are still there as potential hazzard to people living there.



Asianinvasion will probably tell be only a smart part of the site is toxic. Then why not just build on the large part that is not toxic and we would not have this discussion. I will just go home and replace the water at the north east corner of the pool where poop was found.</blockquote>


The part that you are missing is that only a portion of the site has been developed, that which I am referring to. Columbus Square and Columbus Grove are only a couple hundred acres. The soil removal and replacement took place in 2002/2003. If you were paying attention then, and lived right down the street, as I do, you would have noticed a few trucks going by now and then!</blockquote>


I lived Northpark since its infancy. I traveled on Jamboree daily until the end of 2006 when I sold my home. The truck trips did not synchronised with the math. If they are only replacing only the dirt where the homes are built then leaving the rest of the contaminated soil in the remaining area for possible exposure to children and pets is totally unethical. Water run off and dust spreading could easily contaminate the good soil. My pet Fido did not read the disclosure and he loves to chew on bark and plants. He is also at a health risk for chewing on plantings in places where soil has not been replaced as you have cited.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1213663694]



I lived Northpark since its infancy. I traveled on Jamboree daily until the end of 2006 when I sold my home. The truck trips did not synchronised with the math. If they are only replacing only the dirt where the homes are built then leaving the rest of the contaminated soil in the remaining area for possible exposure to children and pets is totally unethical. Water run off and dust spreading could easily contaminate the good soil. My pet Fido did not read the disclosure and he loves to chew on bark and plants. He is also at a health risk for chewing on plantings in places where soil has not been replaced as you have cited.</blockquote>


I'm beginning to think I'm wrestling with a pig in the mud here, but I will toil on for logic's sake.



Lennar developed Columbus Square and Columbus Grove. Lennar brought in fill dirt to these sites.



The rest of the base is to be developed by Shea Homes. Shea Homes is still in the entitlement process with the City of Tustin, therefore, does not have working drawings completed to know what amount of fill dirt will be necessary to bring their site to grade, to a plan that has yet to be approved.



bkshopr, you seem to be well intentioned and respected on this board, but on this topic, I can assure you that you are completely off base.



I'm done now trying to convince you, but if anyone researches the documents that were previously linked, you will come to the same conclusion yourself.
 
[quote author="Kiter" date=1213847563][quote author="bkshopr" date=1213663694]



I lived Northpark since its infancy. I traveled on Jamboree daily until the end of 2006 when I sold my home. The truck trips did not synchronised with the math. If they are only replacing only the dirt where the homes are built then leaving the rest of the contaminated soil in the remaining area for possible exposure to children and pets is totally unethical. Water run off and dust spreading could easily contaminate the good soil. My pet Fido did not read the disclosure and he loves to chew on bark and plants. He is also at a health risk for chewing on plantings in places where soil has not been replaced as you have cited.</blockquote>


I'm beginning to think I'm wrestling with a pig in the mud here, but I will toil on for logic's sake.



Lennar developed Columbus Square and Columbus Grove. Lennar brought in fill dirt to these sites.



The rest of the base is to be developed by Shea Homes. Shea Homes is still in the entitlement process with the City of Tustin, therefore, does not have working drawings completed to know what amount of fill dirt will be necessary to bring their site to grade, to a plan that has yet to be approved.



bkshopr, you seem to be well intentioned and respected on this board, but on this topic, I can assure you that you are completely off base.



I'm done now trying to convince you, but if anyone researches the documents that were previously linked, you will come to the same conclusion yourself.</blockquote>


Thank you for the clarification that the rest of the site is still toxic and waiting for the working drawings to be finalized so the exact amount of dirt would be needed for dirt export and import. I sure don't want to live next to the Shea site for the time being. Since the economy is bad Shea will likely postpone its projects just like TIC. I certainly hope that they have hydrology drainage plan to divert water run off from reaching built neighborhoods during the rainy days. So becareful do not wander off in VOC because only a portion of the ground is safe.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1214029361]

Since the economy is bad Shea will likely postpone its projects just like TIC.

</blockquote>


Wrong again.



Construction has already started on the Shea Technology Campus.



<a href="http://www.sheaproperties.com/property.cfm?pid=75">http://www.sheaproperties.com/property.cfm?pid=75</a>



<a href="http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2008_1st/Mar08_SheaOlson.html">http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2008_1st/Mar08_SheaOlson.html</a>
 
It started 24 months ago in the Platinum Triangle on the corner of Katella and State College. Still looks like a hole in the ground, save for the new found flora and flauna (weeds).
 
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