Villages of Columbus - Columbus Square - Camden Place

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I know someone who lives at Columbus Square. Has he ever heard the traffic from Redhill or Jamboree - that is half a mile away? Never. Has he ever heard any traffic noise from Edinger... possibly one of the least traveled-on road in the vicinity? Never. He however, has heard the trains. But if I'm not mistaken, don't the trains travel completely across Irvine? Does that mean that all the Irvine homes between Walnut and Irvine Center Drive have trouble with reselling?



I have never been a fan of Tustin. But with all the redevelopment plans for Tustin Legacy, a prime central OC location, I feel that Tustin will steal a lot of Irvine's thunder. Irvine has done a great job of becoming the great city it is today. Now Tustin will simply build along its border and benefit from its proximity to Irvine. Just look at The District... that's by no means a short term investment. I think the continuance of the buildup along the Jamboree Corridor will simply increase the value of living on the Tustin base along Barranca and Jamboree.



I really don't think Columbus Square is all that great right now, but I definitely see the signifant upswing potential as the old base develops.
 
I like your optimism. Inglewood was an all white upper income community borrowing similar success from its neighboring Baldwin Hills. When the alignment of flight path directly over or adjacent to it during the early 60's. Its real estates value declined and never recovered.



Here are other examples of communities affected by flight landing path: El Monte airport over El Monte and Rosemead, Torrance airport over Lomita, Long Beach Airport over Lakewood and Bellflower, La Verne Airport over Azusa and La Verne, Burbank Airport over Atwater and Sunland, and Ontario Airport over Ontario and Pomona. All of the communities historically have the least appreciation in home prices. All became blue collar communities. Will VOC stray from tradition?



[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1213354773]I know someone who lives at Columbus Square. Has he ever heard the traffic from Redhill or Jamboree - that is half a mile away? Never. Has he ever heard any traffic noise from Edinger... possibly one of the least traveled-on road in the vicinity? Never. He however, has heard the trains. But if I'm not mistaken, don't the trains travel completely across Irvine? Does that mean that all the Irvine homes between Walnut and Irvine Center Drive have trouble with reselling?



I have never been a fan of Tustin. But with all the redevelopment plans for Tustin Legacy, a prime central OC location, I feel that Tustin will steal a lot of Irvine's thunder. Irvine has done a great job of becoming the great city it is today. Now Tustin will simply build along its border and benefit from its proximity to Irvine. Just look at The District... that's by no means a short term investment. I think the continuance of the buildup along the Jamboree Corridor will simply increase the value of living on the Tustin base along Barranca and Jamboree.



I really don't think Columbus Square is all that great right now, but I definitely see the signifant upswing potential as the old base develops.</blockquote>
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1213354773]I know someone who lives at Columbus Square. Has he ever heard the traffic from Redhill or Jamboree - that is half a mile away? Never. Has he ever heard any traffic noise from Edinger... possibly one of the least traveled-on road in the vicinity? Never. He however, has heard the trains. But if I'm not mistaken, don't the trains travel completely across Irvine? Does that mean that all the Irvine homes between Walnut and Irvine Center Drive have trouble with reselling?



I have never been a fan of Tustin. But with all the redevelopment plans for Tustin Legacy, a prime central OC location, I feel that Tustin will steal a lot of Irvine's thunder. Irvine has done a great job of becoming the great city it is today. Now Tustin will simply build along its border and benefit from its proximity to Irvine. Just look at The District... that's by no means a short term investment. I think the continuance of the buildup along the Jamboree Corridor will simply increase the value of living on the Tustin base along Barranca and Jamboree.



I really don't think Columbus Square is all that great right now, but I definitely see the signifant upswing potential as the old base develops.</blockquote>


What?! "buildup along the Jamboree Corridor will simply increase the value of living on the Tustin base along Barranca and Jamboree." Traffic is already a freaking nightmare there. More development is going to increase the value of living? Please enlighten us more.
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1213354773]I know someone who lives at Columbus Square. Has he ever heard the traffic from Redhill or Jamboree - that is half a mile away? Never. Has he ever heard any traffic noise from Edinger... possibly one of the least traveled-on road in the vicinity? Never. He however, has heard the trains. But if I'm not mistaken, don't the trains travel completely across Irvine? Does that mean that all the Irvine homes between Walnut and Irvine Center Drive have trouble with reselling?



I have never been a fan of Tustin. But with all the redevelopment plans for Tustin Legacy, a prime central OC location, I feel that Tustin will steal a lot of Irvine's thunder. Irvine has done a great job of becoming the great city it is today. Now Tustin will simply build along its border and benefit from its proximity to Irvine. Just look at The District... that's by no means a short term investment. I think the continuance of the buildup along the Jamboree Corridor will simply increase the value of living on the Tustin base along Barranca and Jamboree.



I really don't think Columbus Square is all that great right now, but I definitely see the signifant upswing potential as the old base develops.</blockquote>


All the new roads being built within the Marine Base will become class II highways once commuters figure out that they are there. Red Hill and Jamboree are parking lots around rush hour. He won't hear them now, but he'll hear them in a few years.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1213357170]I like your optimism. Inglewood was an all white upper income community borrowing similar success from its neighboring Baldwin Hills. </blockquote>


Interesting.



Did Inglewood slide because of the flight plan of LAX, or did it decline because of poor architecture?
 
Traffic and development lowers property value? So there goes Hong Kong, Tokyo, Paris, Manhattan, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and any other major metropolitans. So all these developers building homes along Jamboree must be crazy? With their millions of dollars in research, they couldn't figure out what a bad decision they are making?



Why did Irvine double in population in the past ten years? Thanks to all the new developments. I guess I am definitely pro urbanization.



Overall, Orange County is a desirable place to live. And in general, new homes are more desirable than old homes.



Asides, all these urban new homes is a response to people's disdain for Irvine's cookie cutter, suburban image. Builders are giving residents an option to not live in soccermomville.



I think many LA residents would move to OC if they have something somewhat similar to LA - only newer.



But personally, I don't like Columbus Square because it is underdeveloped. I would prefer not to live there now. I don't know why we are discussing about congestion when I still see the place as a "Tustin Desert". Maybe in 5 years it will be good for me.



It's like West Irvine ten years ago. Very nice, very new, but very dead. But today, it's fully developed. It has two excellent new schools - Beckman and Northwood. And it has the Marketplace. Now, it's a very desirable location.



I think Tustin Legacy wants to follow in the same footsteps. New homes, new schools, new shopping center... Give it ten years.
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1213366324]Traffic and development lowers property value? So there goes Hong Kong, Tokyo, Paris, Manhattan, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and any other major metropolitans. So all these developers building homes along Jamboree must be crazy? With their millions of dollars in research, they couldn't figure out what a bad decision they are making?



Why did Irvine double in population in the past ten years? Thanks to all the new developments. I guess I am definitely pro urbanization.



Overall, Orange County is a desirable place to live. And in general, new homes are more desirable than old homes.



Asides, all these urban new homes is a response to people's disdain for Irvine's cookie cutter, suburban image. Builders are giving residents an option to not live in soccermomville.



I think many LA residents would move to OC if they have something somewhat similar to LA - only newer.



But personally, I don't like Columbus Square because it is underdeveloped. I would prefer not to live there now. I don't know why we are discussing about congestion when I still see the place as a "Tustin Desert". Maybe in 5 years it will be good for me.



It's like West Irvine ten years ago. Very nice, very new, but very dead. But today, it's fully developed. It has two excellent new schools - Beckman and Northwood. And it has the Marketplace. Now, it's a very desirable location.



I think Tustin Legacy wants to follow in the same footsteps. New homes, new schools, new shopping center... Give it ten years.</blockquote>


You could be right, just check my comments of what Irvine was in the early 90s. But, seriously... urban... dude... I know school is out, but no need to hit the Kool-Aid sauce. Irvine is far from urbanization, and if what has gone <em>up</em> is any indication of what urbanization is, then they have a sh*tload to learn from SF and Manhattan. Yeah... they need to make it so you can get pizza, flowers, toilet paper, dim sum, gasp... a bar, a liquor store, a pharmacy, a tapas bar, a movie all within an easy four block walking radius. NO DRIVING, YOU ARE FORCED TO WALK. Have you been to Manhattan, or lived in SF? Because I have, and the planning for Irvine, and or Tustin is a shame compared to them. It is so far from comparing SF and Manhattan to Irvine it is like having the Lakers play the Irvine NJB team, and after they sucked a$$ against the Celtics, the NJB has a chance, but reality says otherwise.



I am not joking, get out of the classroom, and please return to reality. The planning in Irvine for urbanization sucks a$$.
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1213366324]



I think many LA residents would move to OC if they have something somewhat similar to LA - only newer.</blockquote>


Interestingly enough, I'd move to West LA if I could find a way to beat the traffic to South County (where I work).
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1213317738]I'm not denying that the soil is contaminated. I just wonder if the risk is significant and will result in actual medical harm. Just don't drink the water or eat the soil.

Personally, I believe assessing risks based on statistics and probability. There are no statistics showing the harmful effects of the Tustin soil and thus the probability of getting ill from it is pretty darn low.</blockquote>


The soil is not contaminated at Columbus Square. As was stated previously, there is a plume of contaminated groundwater below the former Tustin MCAS. This plume is not under Columbus Square. It is several hundred feet to the west of Columbus Square. There is a "buffer zone" that the Navy and the DTSC (Department of Toxic Substance Control) have established around the plume, that does encroach into a portion of Camden Place, Meriwether, and Astoria. For disclosure purposes, advisements were placed on the property to discourage eating fruit from trees that are grown on the property, among other warnings, but the likelihood of a tree sending a tap root several hundred feet to the west is highly unlikely. There is no contaminated groundwater directly under Columbus Square, and no contaminated soil anywhere on the site. All of the soil that you would ever come in contact with was clean, imported soil from other sites.



Bottom line, there is no risk to the residents of Columbus Square, but due to our litigious society, and the need to cover their ass, the builder published a conservative disclosure presenting the existence of the plume.
 
let's not get started on the district. in the long run i dont see the district as a great selling point for surrounding housing. the developer is basically a product of the bubble and only has experience building powercenters out in the deserts of arizona and boondog bubble towns like stockton and hemet. this was their first attempt at a class A development in a top tier market. and quite frankly, they screwed the pooch.



some good places there but the planning of the center is completely incomprehensible. the city also has to share the blame as well. how many ways can you access the irvine/tustin mktplace? how many ways can you access the district? three? the entrance access going eastbound on barranca confuses the hell out of drivers. the left turn lane is over on the other side of the median, as if you're driving into oncoming traffic. and if you missed the left turn theres no way to u-turn until you're past jamboree and halfway to harvard. or you turn left on jamboree, drive half a mile on a highway to exit at warner. the main entrance off barranca is beautiful. let's admire the grand palm tree-lined entrance. is that real fire on the trees? wow, that's awe-- *slam brake* WATCH OUT FOR THAT OLD LADY! who the freak puts a pedestrian crosswalk straight through the narrow two-lane entrance of a major shopping ctr?!



i love the original parts of tustin. old tustin and along newport ave has dining spots i've been going to since i was a kid. i love the area around foothill high, north tustin, cowan and lemon heights. when it comes time to leave irvine, i will consider moving to those areas before south county quite frankly. but being completely realistic, tustin legacy is a mess. defend all you want, but does anyone honestly believe city of irvine and the TIC would have ever developed the nightmare that is tustin legacy. TIC controls almost all of the residential, commercial, and retail life in the surrounding area. it was assumed they were the natural takers for legacy and el toro but notice they didn't bother touch either with a ten foot pole. tustin's inexperience at master planning is showing. city of irvine and TIC are sitting there laughing their butts off at tustin trying to steal a page from their playbook.
 
[quote author="acpme" date=1213399902] TIC controls almost all of the residential, commercial, and retail life in the surrounding area. it was assumed they were the natural takers for legacy and el toro but notice they didn't bother touch either with a ten foot pole. tustin's inexperience at master planning is showing. city of irvine and TIC are sitting there laughing their butts off at tustin trying to steal a page from their playbook.</blockquote>


Um... Legacy was given to the City of Tustin. I don't think TIC was ever given the opportunity. Besides, they're already busy developing Villages of Irvine - far off in the boonies. Although I admit that Woodbury and Portola are better built then Columbus Square and Columbus Grove - who wants to live that far off in the hills - especially with the cost of gas rising?



VOC is more urban because it is closer to the South Coast, the Airport, and the Irvine Business District. VOI is merely continuing Irvine's suburban sprawl. I admit that OC is nowhere near "urban", but I see the value in being less "suburban".



I see three distinct community types in Orange County. There's the beach cities where everything revolves around the coast - Huntington, Newport, etc. There's the suburbs where the emphasis is on nice homes and good schools - Irvine and South County. And there's the "micro-urban" areas where homes are placed as close to shops as possible - Anaheim Lofts, Downtown Santa Ana, South Coast Metro, and the Jamboree Corridor.



So it's all a matter of preference on where you would like to live. I'm just glad that there are more options today. Tustin Legacy is a great place for people from Santa Ana, Anaheim, Garden Grove, and Orange who have become more financially successful, but would not like to move to the coast or the suburbs. Rather, they prefer being close to their more urban roots. Previously, those who succeeded just moved south to Huntington Beach or east to Irvine.



I remember my time at UCI. 2/3 of the students came from outside of Orange County. And the consensus among them was... "Gee, Irvine sure is a beautiful place. There are just so many houses and trees. But there's absolutely nothing to do after 9pm."



Tustin Legacy is trying to meet the needs of these people by building the nice homes with the nice trees. But they're also building them close to movie theatres, restaurants, bars, and bowling alleys/lounges.



North Irvine is too family-oriented and expensive (Northpark,Northwood,etc.). East Irvine is too far from the other major OC cities(Woodbury,Portola Spings). South Irvine is still too exclusive and expensive (Quail Hill, Shady Canyon, Turtle Ridge, etc.). That only leaves West Irvine (along Jamboree). The focus here is higher density (less expensive) homes, more shops, and more night life. And that's what Tustin Legacy is capitalizing on.
 
Does anybody dispute this? Can we accept this going forward?



The cover your own ass theory works for me!



[quote author="Kiter" date=1213399154]

The soil is not contaminated at Columbus Square. As was stated previously, there is a plume of contaminated groundwater below the former Tustin MCAS. This plume is not under Columbus Square. It is several hundred feet to the west of Columbus Square. There is a "buffer zone" that the Navy and the DTSC (Department of Toxic Substance Control) have established around the plume, that does encroach into a portion of Camden Place, Meriwether, and Astoria. For disclosure purposes, advisements were placed on the property to discourage eating fruit from trees that are grown on the property, among other warnings, but the likelihood of a tree sending a tap root several hundred feet to the west is highly unlikely. There is no contaminated groundwater directly under Columbus Square, and no contaminated soil anywhere on the site. All of the soil that you would ever come in contact with was clean, imported soil from other sites.



Bottom line, there is no risk to the residents of Columbus Square, but due to our litigious society, and the need to cover their ass, the builder published a conservative disclosure presenting the existence of the plume.</blockquote>
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1213411728]Um... Legacy was given to the City of Tustin. I don't think TIC was ever given the opportunity. Besides, they're already busy developing Villages of Irvine - far off in the boonies.

</blockquote>


umm... you realize city of irvine and TIC are two separate entities? yes, i know legacy was conveyed to city of tustin. there's the city, then theres the master developer (centex and shea), and then developers for specific purposes (vestar/kimco for the district). i never said TIC was given an opportunity to take over the land.



my point is TIC is very good at developing communities. and city of irvine obviously has a lot of experience working with them in building master planned communities. tustin does not and the rookie mistakes are obvious. it's like a person trying to build a home with no experience, hiring the wrong general contractor, who in turn uses all the wrong subs. i used the district as an example of how things have gone wrong. it's the city's job to manage the developer. vestar rushed on the district and visitors get to deal with the results. roads and entrances were half complete and even today traffic in the area is confusing as hell for those trying to get into the center. that falls squarely on the city. compare that with the carefully controlled growth of the spectrum over the course of a decade. no one ever encountered this while trying to get into the spectrum.

<img src="http://www.designirvine.com/blogfiles/Nov04_0053.jpg" alt="" />



<blockquote>Although I admit that Woodbury and Portola are better built then Columbus Square and Columbus Grove - who wants to live that far off in the hills - especially with the cost of gas rising?</blockquote>


gas prices? gas prices? that might just be the worst argument in favor of VOC that i've ever heard. you're talking about dollars and cents now, while others are talking about architecturally- and environmentally-sound, community development. i imagine all those people in pv are going to start getting fed up with the long commutes from their beautiful, secluded rolling hills and trade up by moving into hawthorne and gardena.
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1213411728]

I see three distinct community types in Orange County. There's the beach cities where everything revolves around the coast - Huntington, Newport, etc. There's the suburbs where the emphasis is on nice homes and good schools - Irvine and South County. And there's the "micro-urban" areas where homes are placed as close to shops as possible - Anaheim Lofts, Downtown Santa Ana, South Coast Metro, and the Jamboree Corridor.



So it's all a matter of preference on where you would like to live. I'm just glad that there are more options today. Tustin Legacy is a great place for people from Santa Ana, Anaheim, Garden Grove, and Orange who have become more financially successful, but would not like to move to the coast or the suburbs. Rather, they prefer being close to their more urban roots. Previously, those who succeeded just moved south to Huntington Beach or east to Irvine.



I remember my time at UCI. 2/3 of the students came from outside of Orange County. And the consensus among them was... "Gee, Irvine sure is a beautiful place. There are just so many houses and trees. But there's absolutely nothing to do after 9pm."



Tustin Legacy is trying to meet the needs of these people by building the nice homes with the nice trees. But they're also building them close to movie theatres, restaurants, bars, and bowling alleys/lounges.



North Irvine is too family-oriented and expensive (Northpark,Northwood,etc.). East Irvine is too far from the other major OC cities(Woodbury,Portola Spings). South Irvine is still too exclusive and expensive (Quail Hill, Shady Canyon, Turtle Ridge, etc.). That only leaves West Irvine (along Jamboree). The focus here is higher density (less expensive) homes, more shops, and more night life. And that's what Tustin Legacy is capitalizing on.</blockquote>


Good analysis. I agree with most everything you said. One thing I wonder though, is if the District tanks, won't that negatively affect the perception of Irvine? I imagine the population that frequent The District is 50% irvine(ites?)...
 
Since he broke Irvine, into North, South, East, West, etc. Can anyone explain this to me? Cause its been bugging me awhile....



Why is the area off of Jamboree (past Irvine Blvd. going towards Portola) considered West Irvine? It seems like that should be East Irvine but all the signs and the engravings say West Irvine, throws me off. I always figured West Irvine would be closer to the 405 side of town. Or is this all based on a different angle than the map view of Irvine?
 
[quote author="24inIrvine" date=1213415714]Since he broke Irvine, into North, South, East, West, etc. Can anyone explain this to me? Cause its been bugging me awhile....



Why is the area off of Jamboree (past Irvine Blvd. going towards Portola) considered West Irvine? It seems like that should be East Irvine but all the signs and the engravings say West Irvine, throws me off. I always figured West Irvine would be closer to the 405 side of town. Or is this all based on a different angle than the map view of Irvine?</blockquote>
Here is your bearing. 241 "Jamboree toll" road and Jeffrey run north and south. Trabuco and Alton run east and west. North of Trabuco is considered north Irvine and South of Alton is South Irvine. East of Jeffrey is East Irvine and West of 241 Jamboree toll road is West Irvine At the middle quadrant of the Tic Tac Toe grids described is considered central Irvine with all built neighborhoods from years ago. Acpme is refering to the new communities with compass direction just to simplifying the districts for layman.
 
I dispute it. I won't live in a place that you can't plant vegetables. That means that the soil is contaminated.



[quote author="rickhunter" date=1213411925]Does anybody dispute this? Can we accept this going forward?



The cover your own ass theory works for me!



[quote author="Kiter" date=1213399154]

The soil is not contaminated at Columbus Square. As was stated previously, there is a plume of contaminated groundwater below the former Tustin MCAS. This plume is not under Columbus Square. It is several hundred feet to the west of Columbus Square. There is a "buffer zone" that the Navy and the DTSC (Department of Toxic Substance Control) have established around the plume, that does encroach into a portion of Camden Place, Meriwether, and Astoria. For disclosure purposes, advisements were placed on the property to discourage eating fruit from trees that are grown on the property, among other warnings, but the likelihood of a tree sending a tap root several hundred feet to the west is highly unlikely. There is no contaminated groundwater directly under Columbus Square, and no contaminated soil anywhere on the site. All of the soil that you would ever come in contact with was clean, imported soil from other sites.



Bottom line, there is no risk to the residents of Columbus Square, but due to our litigious society, and the need to cover their ass, the builder published a conservative disclosure presenting the existence of the plume.</blockquote></blockquote>
 
[quote author="freedomCM" date=1213418056]I dispute it. I won't live in a place that you can't plant vegetables. That means that the soil is contaminated.

</blockquote>


Can you post a link to the document that says you can't plant vegetables? Thanks. I haven't seen it and just want to look at the facts instead of what some people heard some other people say.
 
I ahven't been around much lately, and was surprised to see the toxics talk invade this thread, as IHB members had discussed this a while back:http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/2147/



The Department of Toxic Substance Control has a dedicated website for former MCAS Tustin:http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/OMF/Projects/Tustin_MCAF.cfm



This link is to their "Where to Get More Information" page, with specific contact information:http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/OMF/Projects/upload/MCAS-Tustin_PN_Repository--Information.pdf



And their Envirostor database has tons of information as well. DTSC is the lead agency, and all of your questions, doubts and concerns can be addressed factually by reviewing this website and contacting the relevant agencies:



http://www.envirostor.dtsc.ca.gov/public/profile_report.asp?global_id=30970002



MCAS Tustin was a dirty base - with landfills, burn pits, leaks, etc. It is an active site in the "DTSC - SITE MITIGATION AND BROWNFIELD REUSE PROGRAM" with future activities planned. Thousands of tons of contaminated sediments have been excavated and replaced with clean fill. The groundwater plumes have been isolated, according to DTSC. Whether you trust the government or not is a personal choice. However, there are many reports available - you can at least make an informed choice.
 
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