Veterans Cemetery coming to Irvine

[qwerty]

there were 27 military deaths classified as hostile action in 2010, the last year reported. https://www.dmdc.osd.mil/dcas/pages/report_number_serve.xhtml[/color]
there were 38 fisherman death in 2008 per the link below, its supposed to be 2013 data not sure why they reference 2008 deaths.  Sure seems like those fisherman know death is a possibility every day and yet they still do the job.http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/11/12/the-15-most-dangerous-jobs-in-america/[/color]

You lose credibility when you use distorted data to support your position. 
The number of American troops who have died fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan alone totaled 6,802 as of April 2014.

and as sad as it is, 6,802 people have died - can we objectively say they are protecting our freedom? yes, they are doing work on behalf of our elected politicians but im not quite sure they are dying to protect our freedom. however, still very unfortunate that they had to die.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

there were 27 military deaths classified as hostile action in 2010, the last year reported. https://www.dmdc.osd.mil/dcas/pages/report_number_serve.xhtml[/color]
there were 38 fisherman death in 2008 per the link below, its supposed to be 2013 data not sure why they reference 2008 deaths.  Sure seems like those fisherman know death is a possibility every day and yet they still do the job.http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/11/12/the-15-most-dangerous-jobs-in-america/[/color]

You lose credibility when you use distorted data to support your position. 
The number of American troops who have died fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan alone totaled 6,802 as of April 2014.

and as sad as it is, 6,802 people have died - can we objectively say they are protecting our freedom? yes, they are doing work on behalf of our elected politicians but im not quite sure they are dying to protect our freedom. however, still very unfortunate that they had to die.

But that's not really up to the soldiers' to decide.  There are always politicians and wars...some wars are "good" and some are "bad" but soldiers don't decide that.  Does a soldier dying in WW2 more honorable than someone who died in Iraq or Vietnam?

 

[qwerty]

I've been discussing that no death is more honorable than another.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

I've been discussing that no death is more honorable than another.

But you also make the distinction of death by soldiers in Iraq:

"can we objectively say they are protecting our freedom? yes, they are doing work on behalf of our elected politicians but im not quite sure they are dying to protect our freedom.

 

[qwerty]

That was to point out that it's not always to protect our freedom

 

[Irvinecommuter]

That was to point out that it's not always to protect our freedom

Okay...what difference would it make if it was or wasn't. 

 

[qwerty]

That was to point out that it's not always to protect our freedom

Okay...what difference would it make if it was or wasn't. 

IHO mentioned that he was grateful to the military for dying protecting our freedom. Those soldiers are dying but not protecting our freedom.

 

[O Hills]

there were 27 military deaths classified as hostile action in 2010, the last year reported. https://www.dmdc.osd.mil/dcas/pages/report_number_serve.xhtml[/color]
there were 38 fisherman death in 2008 per the link below, its supposed to be 2013 data not sure why they reference 2008 deaths.  Sure seems like those fisherman know death is a possibility every day and yet they still do the job.http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/11/12/the-15-most-dangerous-jobs-in-america/[/color]

You lose credibility when you use distorted data to support your position. 
The number of American troops who have died fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan alone totaled 6,802 as of April 2014.

and as sad as it is, 6,802 people have died - can we objectively say they are protecting our freedom? yes, they are doing work on behalf of our elected politicians but im not quite sure they are dying to protect our freedom. however, still very unfortunate that they had to die.

Do you mean to suggest that we only honor those who we agree objectively protected our freedom?
How do you suppose we make that determination?
Whether you support a war is a separate question from whether you appreciate and honor the fallen. 

But I guess unless you personally feel the impact, you will not appreciate the sacrifice.
These ideas (duty, honor and sacrifice) are apparently too intangible to be meaningful.

This is all academic since the the memorial might not happen and if it does, probably not anywhere near homes.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

That was to point out that it's not always to protect our freedom

Okay...what difference would it make if it was or wasn't. 

IHO mentioned that he was grateful to the military for dying protecting our freedom. Those soldiers are dying but not protecting our freedom.

Actually, you are mixing up the topics.

1. I am grateful to the military... but not for dying to protect our freedom, but for risking their lives to protect not just our freedom but the freedom of many. As I alluded to before, it can be argued that Iraq/Afghanistan is not just for America's "freedom", but for the freedom of many in that area of the world and for the freedom of any nations that will be subjected to terrorism that originates from there. I spoke to someone stationed in Iraq (I believe I mentioned this before), and he stated that no matter what side of this topic you are on, the Iraqis he met are so appreciative that Hussein is no longer in power and for that alone, he felt it was the right thing. Again, this is an arguable point but what I'm trying to convey is it's not just about *American* freedom. It's about a group of people fighting for the ideals/rights of another group of people no matter the risk.

2. You were originally comparing the lives of groups of people, not the deaths. I don't think you can properly make that comparison but that's my opinion.

3. You have now moved over to whose death is more "honorable" than another's. That's not my point, my point was that military puts their lives at greater risk than any other occupation you've mentioned (although you can make the argument for police on a smaller scale). That alone deserves some consideration. Your fisherman comparison was a good attempt but I don't think it measures up. Where is your stat on how many vegetable pickers died in the last year or so? Do you honestly think that the risk to their lives is the same as that of a soldier stationed in the Middle East (regardless of what he is there for)?

Again, I understand what you are saying, but in trying to illustrate your opinion, which I do see, you are muddying mine. Or maybe you just don't see it the way I do, which is fine... but I will clarify if I feel my stance is being misrepresented.

I know what you are really trying to do... you want Irvine to build an Accountants Memorial cemetery.

 

[ZeroLot]

If you read this carefully, there are people dont mind live next to the cemetery.  Let's build more cemetery next to their house.

Just chiming in ... I'm ok with a VETERAN'S cemetery near my house ... Not a Rose Hills. 

What's the difference?

I think IHO made a good point in the difference.  But my mine main case is that we all get "Veteran's Day" off for a reason and it's not to go shopping or get great discounts.

And yes the military comes with many perks and benefits.  But again the Great Park is built on the old El Toro Marine base.  I think it's a great way to give back to El Toro.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

If you read this carefully, there are people dont mind live next to the cemetery.  Let's build more cemetery next to their house.

Just chiming in ... I'm ok with a VETERAN'S cemetery near my house ... Not a Rose Hills. 

What's the difference?

I think IHO made a good point in the difference.  But my mine main case is that we all get "Veteran's Day" off for a reason and it's not to go shopping or get great discounts.

And yes the military comes with many perks and benefits.  But again the Great Park is built on the old El Toro Marine base.  I think it's a great way to give back to El Toro.

It's interesting that they want to do a cemetary...I mean a memorial would probably serve a similar purpose without the concerns.

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

Really? Parents of deceased veterans want to bury their children close by so they can visit them. This logic sounds good then I stopped and think. How many Irvine or Newport Beach kids really are in the military? Santa Ana is likely the city with many children in the military and a veteran cemetery make more sense in Santa Ana than Irvine.

Oh No that is a double whammies. Cemetery and Mexican visitors.

 

[yaliu07]

The argument I want to make is location.  We, Asian, dont like cemetery because we believe in ghost.  Why can't the cemetery build in a non-Asian community.

Is this your argument?  Seriously?  You don't speak for every Asian.  Also, nobody wants a cemetery near them.  Why don't you go ask Newport Beach, Costa Mesa, or Huntington Beach if they would rather have the cemetery cuz "Asians are scared of ghosts".  Gimme a f'ing break.

I dont understand your argument.  I understand I can't speak for every Asian.  However, can you find me an Asian family that loves live next to the cemetery.

According to city data, Irvine currently has 40% Asian.  And top 5 buyers of Pavilion Park are Asian.  http://www.city-data.com/city/Irvine-California.html

As For Costa Mesa, Asian is only 8.6%.  Newport Beach, 7.0% and Huntington Beach 10.5%.http://www.city-data.com/city/Costa-Mesa-California.htmlhttp://www.city-data.com/city/Newport-Beach-California.htmlhttp://www.city-data.com/city/Huntington-Beach-California.html

If you read this carefully, there are people dont mind live next to the cemetery.  Let's build more cemetery next to their house.

What I'm saying is that nobody, no matter what race, wants to have a cemetery in close proximity to where they live, just human nature with the potential depreciation, bad luck, etc.  But, using an ethnocentric argument that Asians prefer it less than other races holds no water.  Just like WTTCMN said, your viewpoint is classic "Not In My Backyard".  You have to come up with a better reason than "Asians are scared of ghosts", cuz quite frankly, that sounds stupid. 

I don't know the reasons why Irvine City Council proposed the Veteran's Cemetery and Memorial.  And at this point it doesn't matter, cuz the proposal is out there.  But, it would be a difficult public protest in the face of families who have lost loved ones in protection of our nation.  What are you going to say to them?  Drive an extra hour to Riverside County to pay respects to your son/daughter/father/mother/brother/sister because Asians don't want a Veteran's Cemetery near their neighborhood?  If that's your argument, I want no part of it.  You have to come up with something more tangible, because it has to face public scrutiny.  Asians usually hate public confrontation and this is what it will come down to, a battle of public opinion.  How are you going to argue against a crying mother who wants to visit her dead son in a nearby location who lost his life in defense of our country?  And make that argument with a reporter sticking a microphone in your face with a camera on.  Good luck with that.

According to their poll, 80 percent said it wouldn't bother them to live near a cemetery.  (See below for reference).  Again, I argue on the location. Why does the cemetery has to be next to the residential area and why does the cemetery has to be next to the park?  Do the dead really need a place to play golf and basketball?
http://m.voiceofoc.org/healthy_comm...eac-56ac-11e3-b250-001a4bcf887a.html?mode=jqm

 

[O Hills]

Really? Parents of deceased veterans want to bury their children close by so they can visit them. This logic sounds good then I stopped and think. How many Irvine or Newport Beach kids really are in the military? Santa Ana is likely the city with many children in the military and a veteran cemetery make more sense in Santa Ana than Irvine.

Oh No that is a double whammies. Cemetery and Mexican visitors.

I can hear the protest chants now:  "No Ghosts! No Mexicans!  Survival of the Fittest!"

 

[yaliu07]

Really? Parents of deceased veterans want to bury their children close by so they can visit them. This logic sounds good then I stopped and think. How many Irvine or Newport Beach kids really are in the military? Santa Ana is likely the city with many children in the military and a veteran cemetery make more sense in Santa Ana than Irvine.

Oh No that is a double whammies. Cemetery and Mexican visitors.

I can hear the protest chants now:  "No Ghosts! No Mexicans!  Survival of the Fittest!"

...

 

[OCgasman]

If I want certain race in my backyard, I will buy home in Santa Ana.  If I want ghost in my backyard, I will buy home in Whittier.  But, when I am paying for such high price home and high property tax in Irvine, I dont want see neither.

<shaking head> I don't even know what to say about your race comment.

 

[O Hills]

If I want certain race in my backyard, I will buy home in Santa Ana.  If I want ghost in my backyard, I will buy home in Whittier.  But, when I am paying for such high price home and high property tax in Irvine, I dont want see neither.

<shaking head> I don't even know what to say about your race comment.

If that's the first time you're shaking your head, you must be new to this thread. 

 

[jerometl]

If I want certain race in my backyard, I will buy home in Santa Ana.  If I want ghost in my backyard, I will buy home in Whittier.  But, when I am paying for such high price home and high property tax in Irvine, I dont want see neither.

<shaking head> I don't even know what to say about your race comment.

At least he/she speaks out his/her mind rather than trying to be politically correct    I wouldn't be surprised if majority of the FCBs in Irvine feels the same way but are just trying to be politically correct.

 

[O Hills]

If I want certain race in my backyard, I will buy home in Santa Ana.  If I want ghost in my backyard, I will buy home in Whittier.  But, when I am paying for such high price home and high property tax in Irvine, I dont want see neither.

<shaking head> I don't even know what to say about your race comment.

At least he/she speaks out his/her mind rather than trying to be politically correct    I wouldn't be surprised if majority of the FCBs in Irvine feels the same way but are just trying to be politically correct.

Have you ever met a FCB that had any concern about being politically correct?

 

[jerometl]

If I want certain race in my backyard, I will buy home in Santa Ana.  If I want ghost in my backyard, I will buy home in Whittier.  But, when I am paying for such high price home and high property tax in Irvine, I dont want see neither.

<shaking head> I don't even know what to say about your race comment.

At least he/she speaks out his/her mind rather than trying to be politically correct    I wouldn't be surprised if majority of the FCBs in Irvine feels the same way but are just trying to be politically correct.

Have you ever met a FCB that had any concern about being politically correct?

ok .. wrong term.. FCB just not expressing out for fear of consequence.