Veterans Cemetery coming to Irvine
- Thread starter yaliu07
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So you are okay with an inmate who might possibly escape from jail or released, get drunk/high and drive around your neighborhood, break into your house and steal your stuff, beat up your kids, and solicit your neighbors for sex rather than living next to a Veterans Cemetery?! Am I missing something here? These are veterans that served the country you live in now.
There goes the patriotism card. Where does it stop?
Why don't you bury veterans in your front yard so you can show respect every day? These are veterans that served the country you live in now.
Why don't you let the numerous homeless veterans who suffer from PTSD and can't hold a job come live in your home? These are veterans that served the country you live in now.
Why don't you donate all of your time and money to the vets? These are veterans that served the country you live in now.
The fact is, there's a limit with everything, including the veterans. Respecting the veterans does not mean they should get their way, no matter the impact on the residents.
"Silent toxins are seeping out of graveyards around Northern Ireland.And they have been for decades. The problem is the formaldehyde and other chemicals which are used in embalming the dead. Environmental Agency guidance suggests that it takes up to 10 years for this dangerous chemical to dissipate, and more of it goes into the ground every day."http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...yards-pose-threat-to-the-living-31211012.html
"There are three state cemeteries open or in the works all in Northern and Central California, including Fort Ord cemetery in Monterey that has been slow to launch because of a requirement to set up an endowment to cover operations and burials costs."http://www.ocregister.com/articles/cemetery-605327-city-park.html
More than that for me. The traffic. The view for our kids when they are in school.
Im actually okay witha cemetery but would like to relocate it within GP. That would affect future homesites though.
What exactly do you think think your kids are going to see at school? It's not like they're lining up tombstones to the edge of the memorial...there is going to be a lot of street cover (usually trees)
There are so many misconceptions in this argument that it's difficult to figure out where to begin.
First of all, the drinking water from IRWD is a combination of imported water (a little more than half) and ground water.http://www.irwd.com/services/water
Secondly, there are no water-drinking wells on the El Toro base. The 18 wells are in Santa Ana.http://www.irwd.com/construction/tce-el-toro-factsTwo of the wells, called Wells 21 and 22, are along Mitchell Ave. in Tustin.http://www.irwd.com/construction/wells-21-and-22-project
Thirdly, those wells pump water from 2,000 feet below ground, out of the Orange County Groundwater Basin.http://www.mwdh2o.com/mwdh2o/pages/...PDFs/OrangeCountyBasins/OrangeCountyBasin.pdf
Lastly, regarding the article... this isn't Ireland. In the United States, we use burial vaults / liners. They are usually constructed of concrete. It is what the coffin is laid inside of. A lot of places outside the U.S. do not use them (hello, China.) Granted, the point of the vault is not to protect the ground below, but the ground above. It is to reinforce the earth so that it will not sink. However, it still provides an enclosed area, a sealed grave. It is not as if the corpses are thrown into a dirt pit and left decomposing directly into the ground. The article also says: "Where a cemetery is on a hill, like Milltown in Belfast, the toxins may be draining down into the Bog Meadows and the River Lagan. Where cemeteries have been subjected to flooding in recent rain, as at Roselawn, toxins may have been brought to the surface." Is the Veteran cemetery going on a hill? No. Do we get precipitation like Ireland? Absolutely not!
welcome back socal. so, did you catch up all 57 pages? do you still think we (local residents) are anti-veteran?
I live in Stonegate...so not too far away.
Yes...the US is running a national debt. I think the US is doing okay.
yaliu07 said:
So you are okay with an inmate who might possibly escape from jail or released, get drunk/high and drive around your neighborhood, break into your house and steal your stuff, beat up your kids, and solicit your neighbors for sex rather than living next to a Veterans Cemetery?! Am I missing something here? These are veterans that served the country you live in now.
Why was the cemetery approved without this basic study done first? Something seriously shady going on. To compare a traffic from a high school to a cemetery that will have 8000+ burials per year is disingenuous. The degree of impact is not even close.Irvinecommuter said:
Says who? Just because you keep repeating it here doesn't make it true. Read up on the study about the dead poisoning the living through bodies buried in the cemetery. Can't deny science.Irvinecommuter said:
I don't know why you keep bring up the jail. Even if it is a concern it's irrelevant to this conversation. Jail keeps the prisoners in. Cemetery is wide open.Irvinecommuter said:
Our state is dead broke. Endowment are needed to cover operations and burial cost. In 2004, the state told Northern California Veterans' cemetery they had no money to water the lawn. Local residents had to scramble to come up with the money.Irvinecommuter said:
You write off every concern and keep coming back to your convenient narrative.Irvinecommuter said:
BruinRevolution
New member
I just signed up for this website in April and keep coming back because yaliu brings the jokes like Game of Thrones brings agony to its viewers.
That quote about the hooker action was classic. >
That quote about the hooker action was classic. >
yaliu07 said:
You can follow Yaliu on twitter at ____ 
BruinRevolution said:I just signed up for this website in April and keep coming back because yaliu brings the jokes like Game of Thrones brings agony to its viewers.
That quote about the hooker action was classic. >
yaliu07 said:
Tarmacpro said:
There goes the patriotism card. Where does it stop?
Why don't you bury veterans in your front yard so you can show respect every day? These are veterans that served the country you live in now.
Why don't you let the numerous homeless veterans who suffer from PTSD and can't hold a job come live in your home? These are veterans that served the country you live in now.
Why don't you donate all of your time and money to the vets? These are veterans that served the country you live in now.
The fact is, there's a limit with everything, including the veterans. Respecting the veterans does not mean they should get their way, no matter the impact on the residents.
yaliu07 said:
"Silent toxins are seeping out of graveyards around Northern Ireland.And they have been for decades. The problem is the formaldehyde and other chemicals which are used in embalming the dead. Environmental Agency guidance suggests that it takes up to 10 years for this dangerous chemical to dissipate, and more of it goes into the ground every day."http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...yards-pose-threat-to-the-living-31211012.html
"There are three state cemeteries open or in the works all in Northern and Central California, including Fort Ord cemetery in Monterey that has been slow to launch because of a requirement to set up an endowment to cover operations and burials costs."http://www.ocregister.com/articles/cemetery-605327-city-park.html
J
jmoney74
Guest
Irvinecommuter said:
More than that for me. The traffic. The view for our kids when they are in school.
Im actually okay witha cemetery but would like to relocate it within GP. That would affect future homesites though.
Irvinecommuter
New member
I will try this again:
1) Traffic:
You keep bringing up the 8000+ burial a year as some crazy traffic flow. Yet, any sort of development in the area will bring substantially more traffic on Irvine.
8000 burial comes out to about 25 burials a day..at about 20 cars per burial, that's 500 car per day or 3500 cars per week. There is also some question as to how much of that traffic is going to flow through Sand Canyon and Irvine considering Sand Canyon is much more developed and than Bake or Alton.
The high school is estimated to have 2500 students...assuming one car per two students, that's 1,250 cars per day or 7,250 cars per week (5 school days). While there is school 9 months out of the year, we have haven't even counted things like staff traffic, sports meets, football games, music/art performance, etc. Most of that traffic, conversely, is going to come down on Irvine from Sand Canyon
If you are going to get significantly more than 500 cars a day if you put some sort of retail center in that area.
Not to mention, there is going to be another 8000 living units to be develop in that area.
2) Toxicity
Again...you put not context to this issue. Even assuming the cemetery poses an environment risk of some sort, it is on top of a former superfund site that is still be monitored by the EPA and US Navy. There is a known TCE issue underneath the base. TCE is significantly more hazardous to your health.
Columbus Grove/Square are located on top of the former Tustin Air Base and the buyers there receive a written disclosure not to eat any fruits or vegetable grown on the land. El Toro was a significantly toxic environment than Tustin Air Base.
This argument is like telling people living in Fukashima they shouldn't use microwaves because they may pose a cancer risk.
3) What does the openness of a cemetery have to do with it? The issue wasn't raise by me, anti-cemetery group has raise the proximity of the cemetery to the HS as a concern. I was just asking why that was a concern while there is no concern about the existence of a jail just a mile away. The proposed K-8 school is even closer to the jail.
4) The money will or will not be there. State and Federal government set aside specific money for veterans affair, including the building of memorial. That issue is irrelevant whether of the cemetery is built in Irvine or elsewhere in California.
I don't understand your citation...the lack of endowment means that the cemetery/memorial won't be built, not that it is not going to maintained. In fact, that's what the entire article you cited talked about.
Also, you completely mischaracterized the watering issue in Northern California Veteran's Cemetery. The money was privately raised through donations and volunteer, not forced costs on locals.
5) I am not pushing a narrative...it's a narrative that already exists and actually pushed by the anti-cemetery group.
All these "side arguments" are just cause a bunch of eyerolls.
1) Traffic:
You keep bringing up the 8000+ burial a year as some crazy traffic flow. Yet, any sort of development in the area will bring substantially more traffic on Irvine.
8000 burial comes out to about 25 burials a day..at about 20 cars per burial, that's 500 car per day or 3500 cars per week. There is also some question as to how much of that traffic is going to flow through Sand Canyon and Irvine considering Sand Canyon is much more developed and than Bake or Alton.
The high school is estimated to have 2500 students...assuming one car per two students, that's 1,250 cars per day or 7,250 cars per week (5 school days). While there is school 9 months out of the year, we have haven't even counted things like staff traffic, sports meets, football games, music/art performance, etc. Most of that traffic, conversely, is going to come down on Irvine from Sand Canyon
If you are going to get significantly more than 500 cars a day if you put some sort of retail center in that area.
Not to mention, there is going to be another 8000 living units to be develop in that area.
2) Toxicity
Again...you put not context to this issue. Even assuming the cemetery poses an environment risk of some sort, it is on top of a former superfund site that is still be monitored by the EPA and US Navy. There is a known TCE issue underneath the base. TCE is significantly more hazardous to your health.
Columbus Grove/Square are located on top of the former Tustin Air Base and the buyers there receive a written disclosure not to eat any fruits or vegetable grown on the land. El Toro was a significantly toxic environment than Tustin Air Base.
This argument is like telling people living in Fukashima they shouldn't use microwaves because they may pose a cancer risk.
3) What does the openness of a cemetery have to do with it? The issue wasn't raise by me, anti-cemetery group has raise the proximity of the cemetery to the HS as a concern. I was just asking why that was a concern while there is no concern about the existence of a jail just a mile away. The proposed K-8 school is even closer to the jail.
4) The money will or will not be there. State and Federal government set aside specific money for veterans affair, including the building of memorial. That issue is irrelevant whether of the cemetery is built in Irvine or elsewhere in California.
I don't understand your citation...the lack of endowment means that the cemetery/memorial won't be built, not that it is not going to maintained. In fact, that's what the entire article you cited talked about.
Also, you completely mischaracterized the watering issue in Northern California Veteran's Cemetery. The money was privately raised through donations and volunteer, not forced costs on locals.
http://www.shastarcf.org/stories/keeping-northern-california-veterans-cemetery-green#.VYAyclVViko
5) I am not pushing a narrative...it's a narrative that already exists and actually pushed by the anti-cemetery group.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/cemetery-664876-park-veterans.html
All these "side arguments" are just cause a bunch of eyerolls.
Irvinecommuter
New member
jmoney74 said:
What exactly do you think think your kids are going to see at school? It's not like they're lining up tombstones to the edge of the memorial...there is going to be a lot of street cover (usually trees)
According to a January 2014 report by the nonprofit organization State Budget Solutions, California had a state debt of approximately $778 billion. Its state debt per capita was $20,449. The report revealed that state governments faced a combined $5.1 trillion in debt. The obligation amounted to $16,178 per capita in the nation.[11]
http://ballotpedia.org/California_state_budget_and_finances
http://ballotpedia.org/California_state_budget_and_finances
socal78
Well-known member
eatthis said:
There are so many misconceptions in this argument that it's difficult to figure out where to begin.
First of all, the drinking water from IRWD is a combination of imported water (a little more than half) and ground water.http://www.irwd.com/services/water
Secondly, there are no water-drinking wells on the El Toro base. The 18 wells are in Santa Ana.http://www.irwd.com/construction/tce-el-toro-factsTwo of the wells, called Wells 21 and 22, are along Mitchell Ave. in Tustin.http://www.irwd.com/construction/wells-21-and-22-project
Thirdly, those wells pump water from 2,000 feet below ground, out of the Orange County Groundwater Basin.http://www.mwdh2o.com/mwdh2o/pages/...PDFs/OrangeCountyBasins/OrangeCountyBasin.pdf
Lastly, regarding the article... this isn't Ireland. In the United States, we use burial vaults / liners. They are usually constructed of concrete. It is what the coffin is laid inside of. A lot of places outside the U.S. do not use them (hello, China.) Granted, the point of the vault is not to protect the ground below, but the ground above. It is to reinforce the earth so that it will not sink. However, it still provides an enclosed area, a sealed grave. It is not as if the corpses are thrown into a dirt pit and left decomposing directly into the ground. The article also says: "Where a cemetery is on a hill, like Milltown in Belfast, the toxins may be draining down into the Bog Meadows and the River Lagan. Where cemeteries have been subjected to flooding in recent rain, as at Roselawn, toxins may have been brought to the surface." Is the Veteran cemetery going on a hill? No. Do we get precipitation like Ireland? Absolutely not!
I am just curious - do you live in any of the neighborhood like PP or PS? I wonder if there is anyone from PP or PS are for the current cemetery proposal. Interesting enough most(if not all) folks in supporting the current cemetery proposal are not residents from either neighborhoods.Irvinecommuter said:
yaliu07 said:yaliu07 said:
socal, please readhttp://www.dailypilot.com/news/tn-dpt-me-0612-irvine-cemetery-20150612,0,7456127.story
hopefully you read through all 57 pages of this thread now. do you still think we (local residents) are anti-veteran?
welcome back socal. so, did you catch up all 57 pages? do you still think we (local residents) are anti-veteran?
Irvinecommuter
New member
Roger said:
I live in Stonegate...so not too far away.
Irvinecommuter
New member
yaliu07 said:
Yes...the US is running a national debt. I think the US is doing okay.