US News&World Report Top High Schools

[socaltrojan81]

CZ - for the record, I wasn't referring to your kids specifically. I was generalizing about Irvine parents beliefs that by their kids going to IUSD their kids are going to be world leaders (I'm exaggerating) some day.

As far as I can tell from the US news rankings, Irvine schools are not actually that great. University High School (the best in Irvine) is ranked #182 in the US.  It's rank within California is #29.

I do not consider #182 great. Am I missing something here?

 

[qwerty]

id say its relative. depends on how many schools there are. if they are top 10%, id say that is pretty damn good.

but for entertainments sake, i would agree with you that IUSD schools are not great.

 

[socaltrojan81]

id say its relative. depends on how many schools there are. if they are top 10%, id say that is pretty damn good.

but for entertainments sake, i would agree with you that IUSD schools are not great.

I know its relative.. just that i've heard lots of folks talk about irvine schools, both those who don't live here and ones who live here. I come from a different country so i'm just trying to understand why folks pay so much of a premium for it.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I do not consider #182 great. Am I missing something here?

What is the metrics? 182 out of what? 1000... not so much... 10000... impressive.

 

[irvinenester]

According to US News, the #182 ranking is out of 18,196 high schools.

The state ranking of #29 is out of 2,039 high schools.

That puts Uni High in the top 1% of high schools in the nation, and the top 1.4% of high schools in California.

Not that it really means much.  The methodology doesn't run very deep.

1.  First they take all the schools that are performing above average for in their state.
2. Then they look to see if the "least-advantaged" kids in those schools are performing above average in their state.
3. If they pass those first two hurdles, then they get considered for ranking based upon their measured "College Readiness Index" score.  This third step measures "which schools produced the best college-level achievement for the highest percentages of their students."  The way they measure this, simply put is based upon:
a.  The percentage of 12th graders who took at least 1 AP/IB test, adjusted for how well they did (25%)
b.  The percentage of 12th graders who took and passed at least one test. (weight: 75%)

So really, for the most part, the rankings seem to be measuring is what percentage of your 12th graders took and passed at least 1 AP/IB test.  The API scores don't get factored in when determining the ratings in Step 3.

How well the school does on the national rankings determines how well they will do on the state rankings.

"Only" 65% of Uni High's students took an AP test, so Uni's only going to score so high.

 

[Tieloop]

CZ - for the record, I wasn't referring to your kids specifically. I was generalizing about Irvine parents beliefs that by their kids going to IUSD their kids are going to be world leaders (I'm exaggerating) some day.

As far as I can tell from the US news rankings, Irvine schools are not actually that great. University High School (the best in Irvine) is ranked #182 in the US.  It's rank within California is #29.

I do not consider #182 great. Am I missing something here?

I researched public schools in the U.S. as part of my families decision on where to move on our return from overseas.  Based on the shear number of high schools considered across the country, 182 is indeed fairly impressive (I think someone calculated in the top 1%).

Additionally, a great many of the high ranking schools are magnet or charter schools.  From my observations, as many as half can fall into that category.  Of the top 10 in California, I think 7 are magnet or charter schools.  Attendance at some is based in part on scores on academic achievement tests (certainly there are other factors at some, Preuss Academy, for instance, sets a limit on parental income and does not admit children if either parent has a college degree). 

Since many of these highly rated schools are taking already high achieving students, it is natural that they are going to perform well on standardized tests, proficiency tests and AP/IB courses.  Are they performing well because the teachers and curriculum are top notch, or because the students are gifted?  My guess is that it is some of both.  I imagine that the atmosphere at those schools is very conducive to learning, which makes it an attractive place to work.  Motivated teachers, plus possibly gifted kids, in addition to parents who are willing to make the effort to get their child in a magnet school is a potent combination.

So while I absolutely support the idea of magnet schools, I'm not sure that it is an apples to apples comparison to schools that based attendance on geographical boundaries.  IUSD accepts students based on their physical address, not any academic potential.  If you remove the magnet schools from the equation, you will see that the Irvine schools will move up considerably in ranking.  They will move up even higher as a percentage, since the magnet/charter schools represent a small part of the overall number of schools, but a large part of the top.

I discounted magnet schools when I was considering neighborhoods because I couldn't guarantee that my children would be admitted to that school, and the traditional public schools in those areas are often poorly performing (often the driver for the magnet/charter school in the first place).

So while I think that these rankings don't tell the entire story, ranking 182 of public high schools in the U.S. as a boundary based public school is very impressive. 

 

[qwerty]

Are they performing well because the teachers and curriculum are top notch, or because the students are gifted?  My guess is that it is some of both.

i think the same question can be asked about IUSD schools. the general consensus on the boards is that the asian population elevates the APIs based on the importance asian parents/asians place on education (sending kids to after school tutoring, etc).  its likely that these asian kids would do well at any school they were in.

 

[Tieloop]

Are they performing well because the teachers and curriculum are top notch, or because the students are gifted?  My guess is that it is some of both.

i think the same question can be asked about IUSD schools. the general consensus on the boards is that the asian population elevates the APIs based on the importance asian parents/asians place on education (sending kids to after school tutoring, etc).  its likely that these asian kids would do well at any school they were in.

I think that this is an absolutely fair point and it is something that made me question the value of the rankings at all.  I definitely believe that education system is as much about the students and parents as it is ciriculum and teachers.  IUSD certainly benefit from a well educated and affluent base that puts a lot of emphasis on education.  From what I remember, a great many of the high performing boundary based attendance public schools are in affluent areas. 

While I do think that many of the kids who attend IUSD's schools would do well in most other schools, I also believe that such an atmosphere can benefit all of them.  The smart kids benefit from being surrounded by other high performing kids (it can also lead to pressure, no doubt).  Even the less stellar kids can benefit.  If all my son's friends are doing his homework and studying for tests, I think it is more likely that he is going to willingly do the same than he is if they spend all of their time playing video games. 

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

Take Qwerty's relatives (33%) out of Beckman HS this school should shame UNI high.

CZ - for the record, I wasn't referring to your kids specifically. I was generalizing about Irvine parents beliefs that by their kids going to IUSD their kids are going to be world leaders (I'm exaggerating) some day.

As far as I can tell from the US news rankings, Irvine schools are not actually that great. University High School (the best in Irvine) is ranked #182 in the US.  It's rank within California is #29.

I do not consider #182 great. Am I missing something here?

I researched public schools in the U.S. as part of my families decision on where to move on our return from overseas.  Based on the shear number of high schools considered across the country, 182 is indeed fairly impressive (I think someone calculated in the top 1%).

Additionally, a great many of the high ranking schools are magnet or charter schools.  From my observations, as many as half can fall into that category.  Of the top 10 in California, I think 7 are magnet or charter schools.  Attendance at some is based in part on scores on academic achievement tests (certainly there are other factors at some, Preuss Academy, for instance, sets a limit on parental income and does not admit children if either parent has a college degree). 

Since many of these highly rated schools are taking already high achieving students, it is natural that they are going to perform well on standardized tests, proficiency tests and AP/IB courses.  Are they performing well because the teachers and curriculum are top notch, or because the students are gifted?  My guess is that it is some of both.  I imagine that the atmosphere at those schools is very conducive to learning, which makes it an attractive place to work.  Motivated teachers, plus possibly gifted kids, in addition to parents who are willing to make the effort to get their child in a magnet school is a potent combination.

So while I absolutely support the idea of magnet schools, I'm not sure that it is an apples to apples comparison to schools that based attendance on geographical boundaries.  IUSD accepts students based on their physical address, not any academic potential.  If you remove the magnet schools from the equation, you will see that the Irvine schools will move up considerably in ranking.  They will move up even higher as a percentage, since the magnet/charter schools represent a small part of the overall number of schools, but a large part of the top.

I discounted magnet schools when I was considering neighborhoods because I couldn't guarantee that my children would be admitted to that school, and the traditional public schools in those areas are often poorly performing (often the driver for the magnet/charter school in the first place).

So while I think that these rankings don't tell the entire story, ranking 182 of public high schools in the U.S. as a boundary based public school is very impressive. 

 

[locolocal]

Take Qwerty's relatives (33%) out of Beckman HS this school should shame UNI high.

What does that mean exactly?  Does it imply you can expect your kid to ace the MCAT, GRE or the GMAT and get in to the best graduate school only to find that he lacks adequate social skills to succeed and prosper in the real world?

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

Amen and shall I add to your comments like moving back to Irvine and take a handout from parents to buy a house.

I

Take Qwerty's relatives (33%) out of Beckman HS this school should shame UNI high.

What does that mean exactly?  Does it imply you can expect your kid to ace the MCAT, GRE or the GMAT and get in to the best graduate school only to find that he lacks adequate social skills to succeed and prosper in the real world?

 

[socaltrojan81]

[/quote]
While I do think that many of the kids who attend IUSD's schools would do well in most other schools, I also believe that such an atmosphere can benefit all of them.  The smart kids benefit from being surrounded by other high performing kids (it can also lead to pressure, no doubt).  Even the less stellar kids can benefit.  If all my son's friends are doing his homework and studying for tests, I think it is more likely that he is going to willingly do the same than he is if they spend all of their time playing video games.
[/quote]

This is exactly why  people put their kids into top notch schools. The bar is elevated and I guess this is a self-fulfilling cycle. Asian presence elevates API, this attracts others. Because the bar is already high, everybody's performance is better and raising the API scores further and so on...

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

What if the situation is reversed where the majority of the students are Hispanics and a few Asians joined the school. Will the Asians slack off in El Monte, Rosemead, Chino, Rancho Cucamonga, and Ontario? These schools are all raising up the rank.
While I do think that many of the kids who attend IUSD's schools would do well in most other schools, I also believe that such an atmosphere can benefit all of them.  The smart kids benefit from being surrounded by other high performing kids (it can also lead to pressure, no doubt).  Even the less stellar kids can benefit.  If all my son's friends are doing his homework and studying for tests, I think it is more likely that he is going to willingly do the same than he is if they spend all of their time playing video games.
[/quote]

This is exactly why  people put their kids into top notch schools. The bar is elevated and I guess this is a self-fulfilling cycle. Asian presence elevates API, this attracts others. Because the bar is already high, everybody's performance is better and raising the API scores further and so on...
[/quote]

 

[socaltrojan81]

There could be multiple reasons why a school does well. It could be good teachers and school management or the composition of its students (asians...etc). In the case of Irvine, do you think its school management or composition of students?

What if the situation is reversed where the majority of the students are Hispanics and a few Asians joined the school. Will the Asians slack off in El Monte, Rosemead, Chino, Rancho Cucamonga, and Ontario? These schools are all raising up the rank.
While I do think that many of the kids who attend IUSD's schools would do well in most other schools, I also believe that such an atmosphere can benefit all of them.  The smart kids benefit from being surrounded by other high performing kids (it can also lead to pressure, no doubt).  Even the less stellar kids can benefit.  If all my son's friends are doing his homework and studying for tests, I think it is more likely that he is going to willingly do the same than he is if they spend all of their time playing video games.

This is exactly why  people put their kids into top notch schools. The bar is elevated and I guess this is a self-fulfilling cycle. Asian presence elevates API, this attracts others. Because the bar is already high, everybody's performance is better and raising the API scores further and so on...
[/quote]
[/quote]

 

[qwerty]

There could be multiple reasons why a school does well. It could be good teachers and school management or the composition of its students (asians Mexicans...etc). In the case of Irvine, do you think its school management or composition of students?

i fixed that for you.