The perfect BK style house designed just for IHBers.

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[quote author="SoCal78" date=1233054030][quote author="Oscar" date=1233053735] Cars in the garage, guests in the driveway...</blockquote>


What driveway?</blockquote>
I think Oscar meant guests along curb side at the front.



For those worrying about not having enough parking at the front of the home do not worry. The parking along the curb side without driveway cut is now 233% which is almost triple the number of guest stalls for a detached condo project exceeding the city mandatory guest parking requirement by 133%



Some may even want to take the third parking spots at the back for that guaranteed 3rd spot.



This prototype is not meant to solve everything but is an alternative for detached condo like Decada. Issue such as parkings, small yards, the lack of storage and hidden front doors are all resolved by this formula and used up comparable land. It may even get a granny flat!



Getting a character of Floral Park in Irvine seems to me is a win win situation.



I need to trouble shoot this idea. Are there any negative other than not having a driveway (driveway properties do not deliver this density and will cost much more)
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1233055673]Yes, I totally agree. Floral Park and Park Santiago's density is also 1.4 homes per acre. When that is translated to Irvine prices. You home is worth $6.873 mil using Irvine land value. Since no day laborer could replicate the old world craftsmanship of your home then your home is priceless.</blockquote>






My in-laws actually have a four car garage on 1.1 acres in Floral Park, I wonder what that price would be in Irvine.
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1233062361][quote author="bkshopr" date=1233055673]Yes, I totally agree. Floral Park and Park Santiago's density is also 1.4 homes per acre. When that is translated to Irvine prices. You home is worth $6.873 mil using Irvine land value. Since no day laborer could replicate the old world craftsmanship of your home then your home is priceless.</blockquote>






My in-laws actually have a four car garage on 1.1 acres in Floral Park, I wonder what that price would be in Irvine.</blockquote> That is huge when the public street is not included. It is comparable to the Shady Canyon prices around $8 mil.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1233061449]

For those worrying about not having enough parking at the front of the home do not worry. The parking along the curb side without driveway cut is now 233% which is almost triple the number of guest stalls for a detached condo project exceeding the city mandatory guest parking requirement by 133%



Some may even want to take the third parking spots at the back for that guaranteed 3rd spot.



</blockquote>


Can you explain the %?

What is the total parking impact? If you lose 2 spots due to no driveway where is it made up? In a jam I could still park one or two guests in front of my driveway. It seems that getting rid of a driveway reduces parking by at least 1 car per house. With people filling the streets with vehicles aren't they getting a little tight since space was apportioned to the "alley?"
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1233061449]

For those worrying about not having enough parking at the front of the home do not worry. The parking along the curb side without driveway cut is now 233% which is almost triple the number of guest stalls for a detached condo project exceeding the city mandatory guest parking requirement by 133%

</blockquote>


How many parking spots in front at the curb per house? Three? (no, that would only be twelve feet per car, it's two spots isn't it?) For a total of 30 (a mere 20) curbside spots on the street in front from ten homes running five homes per side of the street?



That said, I have a simple formula for parking. A two car garage per house plus one spot per for each bedroom. It provides one 'guest' spot per home when the neighborhood matures and there is a car for each 'child' in the house.



As for exceeding requirements, frankly, the requirements have been demostrated to be completely inadequate and is a detriment to sales in older neighborhoods when people see the parking congestion.
 
BK, while I generally agree with you, you are giving up a bit of the back yard to achieve the garage and you're also enlarging your front yard (both of these are very much fine by me....). The main question will be what will be your house to house offset. I've done a little bit of design work for the places in Big Bear and near the beach. But those were TINY places (~2500 sqft...).



those houses do look beautiful....

-bix
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1233050106]

Front of the homes with similar width. Good look is possible without the garages. Yes these types of charm are achievable with my proposal.

</blockquote>


those are charming homes. you have one vote here. i would purchase something like that. they remind me of smaller versions of homes along oak knoll. where are those photos from?
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1233054868]I can even add sliders or french doors to the back of the garage wall to open up the garage to the private yard for IHO's strip poker parties that is not possible when the garage is at the front.

</blockquote>
Hey!!! What happens in the garage... stays in the garage!



The only issue here is I don't see how this addresses the space issue. If these houses have a front yard, a back yard, a space for a garage, a front street, and back-alley... doesn't that take up more land depth-wise?



Sure... no driveways means infinite curbs... but that also means infinite cars in front of your beautiful houses. At least the driveways allows for some breaks so that the street doesn't look like a weekend in the LA shopping district.



And remember... my love isn't just about the garage... it's also about the driveway. I can never live in a house that has no driveway. Say I need to back the car out so I can get down the holiday lights, unpack some stuff or put away some stuff... I don't want to have to drive the car all the way around the front and look for parking (because I know my neighbor will have his cars parked in front of my house)... just so I can do a 15-minute chore. bkshopr's house may not have a full frontal garage... but I know he has a huge driveway... and land density won't allow that in Irvine.
 
why not just implement no-parking or parking-by-permit laws like they do in LA neighborhoods that are near commercial areas.
 
[quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1233065430][quote author="bkshopr" date=1233061449]

For those worrying about not having enough parking at the front of the home do not worry. The parking along the curb side without driveway cut is now 233% which is almost triple the number of guest stalls for a detached condo project exceeding the city mandatory guest parking requirement by 133%

</blockquote>


How many parking spots in front at the curb per house? Three? (no, that would only be twelve feet per car, it's two spots isn't it?) For a total of 30 (a mere 20) curbside spots on the street in front from ten homes running five homes per side of the street?



That said, I have a simple formula for parking. A two car garage per house plus one spot per for each bedroom. It provides one 'guest' spot per home when the neighborhood matures and there is a car for each 'child' in the house.



As for exceeding requirements, frankly, the requirements have been demostrated to be completely inadequate and is a detriment to sales in older neighborhoods when people see the parking congestion.</blockquote>


Irvine guest parking code is 0.75 car per house. The 233% does not represent the number of cars but just the comparison to the minimum standard of 0.75. In front of every house there is enough space for 1.75 cars or 7 cars along 4 houses. There will be more opportunities for additional parking along the side elevation at both ends of the block.



For the detached condos the end of the block parking are in less demands than the premium parking in front of the paseos where all homeowners want to park. The 2 houses out by the street may also experience neighbors car in front of the houses when they live toward the back of the cluster.



The biggest issue of people wanting to park out on the street is the storage in garages that forces the cars out on the streets. With the 2.75 car garage that should alleviate the problem.



Upon studying my concept may be 40% of the homes could actually get the full 3 car garage by doing a "z" lot adjustment to the rear of the property and the rest the buyers can choose one of the poll choices.



To address the driveway IHO driveway issue. You are in the $890k+ territory and one can't buy champagne with beer budget.



I would rather see cars on curb side than cars on driveway. The visual impact is less when you just see the tail width of cars rather than seeing the entire length of a Suburban or excursion while I am driving on the street. If I am walking on the sidewalk then I can see the beautiful elevation of homes with all grass and trees and no cars because the cars would be behind me.



In your Scenario what I see from the sidewalk is your house obscured by 80% tail ends of cars, concrete, a token piece of grass and a scrauny tree. If you are lucky then you may have just one narrow room looking out to the street and for most there is just barely room for just a door and no room looking out.



Keep in mind the only way in getting cost down is to utilize less land. What everyone wants is solution driving down density thus creating home prices that is out of reach.



There is no driveway products out there getting 8 units to an acre. We are here to find solutions that require compromises. You can have what you want and more in Corona and the rest of Inland Empire.



I just don't see driveway dominated communities become future classic gems and highly sought after. History has not shown that so far. Driveway dominated properties represent most of the foreclosure inventory currently.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1233112808][quote author="bkshopr" date=1233054868]I can even add sliders or french doors to the back of the garage wall to open up the garage to the private yard for IHO's strip poker parties that is not possible when the garage is at the front.

</blockquote>
Hey!!! What happens in the garage... stays in the garage!



The only issue here is I don't see how this addresses the space issue. If these houses have a front yard, a back yard, a space for a garage, a front street, and back-alley... doesn't that take up more land depth-wise?



Sure... no driveways means infinite curbs... but that also means infinite cars in front of your beautiful houses. At least the driveways allows for some breaks so that the street doesn't look like a weekend in the LA shopping district.



And remember... my love isn't just about the garage... it's also about the driveway. I can never live in a house that has no driveway. Say I need to back the car out so I can get down the holiday lights, unpack some stuff or put away some stuff... I don't want to have to drive the car all the way around the front and look for parking (because I know my neighbor will have his cars parked in front of my house)... just so I can do a 15-minute chore. bkshopr's house may not have a full frontal garage... but I know he has a huge driveway... and land density won't allow that in Irvine.</blockquote>


Yes I do have a long but narrow driveway but it does flare out toward the back to meet the 2 car width detached garage. I do not really use my driveway.



On my current proposal there will be a huge slider at the back of the garage attached to your yard. You can still take out Christmas decoration without having to back your car out. 40% of the units may be 3 car wide for your storage. You will have an entire granny flat above the garage for your poker or have that workshop that is next to your backyard. Better yet you can open your garage up from the backside that relate to your backyard BBQ party or scatter your Christmas decorations on the grassier surface rather than breaking the bulbs on the concrete driveway.
 
It still seems you trading width for depth and from what I've seen in the newer tracts... there's not much depth either.



What are the metrics of a standard front garage lot vs the BK lot? I know the width is 45' vs 35'... but how deep are these lots? I think you will find by adding depth for the *detached* garage and alley entrance... you may be taking up more land. The units we see nowadays are attached garages which is where you get the land space savings. Your proposal doesn't seem like it will achieve the same benefit.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1233061449][quote author="SoCal78" date=1233054030][quote author="Oscar" date=1233053735] Cars in the garage, guests in the driveway...</blockquote>


What driveway?</blockquote>
I think Oscar meant guests along curb side at the front. </blockquote>


No, I actually meant "driveway". I don't mean a concrete slab that's as wide as a two-car garage and runs from curb to door, but single-width driveways that run along the side of the house in the pictures you linked:



On the left of the house:

<img src="http://www.designlens.com/projects/2008/10/4/32.jpg" alt="" />



Again, on the left:

<img src="http://www.designlens.com/projects/2008/10/4/12.jpg" alt="" />



Here, along the right:

<img src="http://www.designlens.com/projects/2008/10/4/5.jpg" alt="" />



These all have garages at the back of the lot, removing any need for an alleyway, allowing the front door to face the street, and allowing for plan variations in the setback.
 
There are quite a few homes with the single driveway to the back garage in Orange and Santa Ana.



The problem with doing this in Irvine? Asian drivers having to back out that long distance... they can't even drive forward correctly... imagine in reverse!*



*Disclamer: Based on stereotypical anecdotes and may not reflect actual facts
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1233120887]There are quite a few homes with the single driveway to the back garage in Orange and Santa Ana.



The problem with doing this in Irvine? Asian drivers having to back out that long distance... they can't even drive forward correctly... imagine in reverse!*



*Disclamer: Based on stereotypical anecdotes and may not reflect actual facts</blockquote>


I'm not Asian, so I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it, but I have decided never again to back out of my in-laws driveway. I won't let my husband do it either. Our not very old car looks like it's been keyed from the scraping it has received from the hedges and rose bushes at the beginning of their very long driveway. My husband used to zoom out of it just fine, then enter the Honda "big fat rear end" Odyssey and even he can't do it anymore! Yes, our backing out skills, the size of our cars and the width of the driveway/alleyway (whatever it's being called) needs to be a consideration. Now we just pull in and turn the car around in front of the garage.
 
That would be very nice having the driveway off to the side to access the street-facing garage in the back. It would work even if the garage was attached to the home. This reminds me of one style house offered in Northwood II where you have a porte-cochere leading to a small courtyard and the garage. It provides extra parking plus keeps the cars off the street. I believe some of the homes have a gate at the entrance to the porte-cochere so you could tastefully keep the activity from view. Very nice.



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/62-Bamboo-92620/home/5931314">Here is one in NII.</a> This one does not appear to have a gate at the entrance, but like I said I think some do.



<img src="http://i-0.rfimg.us/photo/46/bigphoto/173/S557173_0.jpg" alt="" />



The attached garage is towards the rear of the house and street-facing. Your courtyard can serve multiple purposes without irritating the neighbors across the street.



<img src="http://i-0.rfimg.us/photo/46/bigphoto/173/S557173_1_0.jpg" alt="" />



I know this is a large and expensive home but maybe it could be downsized?
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1233116548]

I would rather see cars on curb side than cars on driveway. The visual impact is less when you just see the tail width of cars rather than seeing the entire length of a Suburban or excursion while I am driving on the street. If I am walking on the sidewalk then I can see the beautiful elevation of homes with all grass and trees and no cars because the cars would be behind me.

</blockquote>


Curbside parking is ok visually so long as you have a reasonably deep front yard. In many Irvine villages, the front doors of the detached condos literally open onto the sidewalk (e.g. Decada, Stonetree Manor, etc), no room for grass or trees. The facade of these homes are completely obscured by curbside parking. I used to live in a Cal Pac detached condo and my neighbor had his classic International Harvester truck permanently berthed across my front door. He once parked it there so long one of his tires deflated.



<img src="http://www.worldofwoo.com/images/Scout/after_lift_and_tires_front_driver_quarter.JPG" alt="" />
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1233121431]



I know this is a large and expensive home but maybe it could be downsized?</blockquote>
At which point you have a competition problem: "Why should I pay $x for 2000 sqft, when I can get 3500sqft for the same price... 5 miles away?" My wife and I both hate the relatively recent trend of building out to the property lines, but as has been pointed out by Bk and IR in other threads, this is what makes the most money. With comps dropping rapidly, how can you build a new tract of smaller and nicer homes, for a profit, when the stucco boxes across the freeway are now cheaper to own and only a couple years old?
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1233116548]



Keep in mind the only way in getting cost down is to utilize less land. What everyone wants is solution driving down density thus creating home prices that is out of reach.





</blockquote>


BK-



Can't the land go down in value instead of using less of it?



SCHB
 
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